Euro 2008

redspider

BaZmO* wrote:

and maybe a bag of sweets and some pop too...

exactly Bazmo, if the little sweets with EPO can make greyhounds run better they're bound to have a similar affect on footballers ;-)

Seaneh

I don't know why you lot think Germany are an easier prospect than the Czechs... A lot of Czech players are retiring after the WC where as Germany have a LOT of very good palyers under 27...
Ernt, Lahm, Kehl, Lauth, Schweinsteiger, Deisler, Podolski, Hildebrand, Hinkel, Hanke, Fritz, Hitzlsperger, Kuranyi and Metzelder are all top class young players.

we have what? McGeady, Whelan, Ireland, O'Brien and one or two other younger player capable of challanging for a SQUAD place at best? All the germany players listed are challanging for first team this summer!

On the other hand the czechs are a very old squad so maybe we can take them on and gain second place that way but I full expect Germany to win the group comfortably.

The other teams in the group are amnagable, wales with a new team and a good manager in Toshak are a challange but If stan can use good tatics and play good football we could roll them.

Lemlin

We took on Croatia and beat them after they had gone to the semis in World Cup '98. They were at a similar stage then to where Czech Republic are e.g. a soon to be spent force with alot of players retiring.

Seaneh

Lemlin wrote:

We took on Croatia and beat them after they had gone to the semis in World Cup '98. They were at a similar stage then to where Czech Republic are e.g. a soon to be spent force with alot of players retiring.

Exactly!
I think Germany are the main worry, we can, on our day take the Czechs.

redspider

Pigman II wrote:

Whilst I am a huge advocate of reducing the number of qualifiers I'm am also a staunch believer that it is unfair not to at least give the smaller teams a 'chance' to qualify for any given tournament 'N' (something that doesn't seem to be provided under your idea).

I dont think they need that chance every 2 years. Its like we start all over again, and in reality whilst international teams can change, its not like they are flip-flopping from Brazillian standards to that of Sao Tome & Principe (population 11) <--- joke. The two tier system gives the lower placed countries a chance when they qualify to do so. All leagues around the world work on this system at present and they are not deemed unfair, just because Rushden & Diamonds, Queen of the South, Mervue United and <take your pick of a low placed club) dont have a chance to win their league each season.

Also the proposal allows for a lot of interchange, 8 teams promoted out of 32 is 25%, a lot more than the "fair" systems of LOI, SPL, English league, etc, etc.

I understand your point, and there is the issue of will they lose out on potential money revenues if a country never gets to the top. Uefa could balance that by giving money (from TV rights) awards to those that get promoted, etc. The money aspect can be balanced out.

redspider

BaZmO*

redspider wrote:

exactly Bazmo, if the little sweets with EPO can make greyhounds run better they're bound to have a similar affect on footballers ;-)

Haha. Just heard that on the radio. With most countries it's their Athletes that are invloved in doping scandals. Not in Ireland though, it's our animals that take performance enhancers, Horses, Greyhounds.......oh and Michelle Smith!

stevenmu

It's an interesting group, and I can see it making for an exciting finish with the teams to go through only being settled with the last games. I can see us, the Germans and the Czechs being neutral on points from the games between ourselves, with the two to go through being decided by results against Slovakia.

BaZmO*

stevenmu wrote:

It's an interesting group, and I can see it making for an exciting finish with the teams to go through only being settled with the last games. I can see us, the Germans and the Czechs being neutral on points from the games between ourselves, with the two to go through being decided by results against Slovakia.

Slovakia is the new Israel.

gracehopper

BaZmO* wrote:

Haha. Just heard that on the radio. With most countries it's their Athletes that are invloved in doping scandals. Not in Ireland though, it's our animals that take performance enhancers, Horses, Greyhounds.......oh and Michelle Smith!

LOL

mewso

Great to see such optimism here. It's like we've all woken up from a cryogenic sleep and the last 4 years never happened. We have an average squad at best and the FAI will be delighted to play down our chances to relieve pressure from Stan while we all fantasise about beating the weak Germans and the "old" czechs. With the pressure off we might surprise but some realism never did any harm.

Pigman II

redspider wrote:

I dont think they need that chance every 2 years. Its like we start all over again, and in reality whilst international teams can change, its not like they are flip-flopping from Brazillian standards to that of Sao Tome & Principe (population 11) <--- joke. The two tier system gives the lower placed countries a chance when they qualify to do so. All leagues around the world work on this system at present and they are not deemed unfair, just because Rushden & Diamonds, Queen of the South, Mervue United and <take your pick of a low placed club) dont have a chance to win their league each season.

Also the proposal allows for a lot of interchange, 8 teams promoted out of 32 is 25%, a lot more than the "fair" systems of LOI, SPL, English league, etc, etc.

I understand your point, and there is the issue of will they lose out on potential money revenues if a country never gets to the top. Uefa could balance that by giving money (from TV rights) awards to those that get promoted, etc. The money aspect can be balanced out.

redspider

Well then why not just take that idea to it's natural conclusion whereby there is 3 tiers of 16 countries in Europe and the top 14 in the premier tier qualify for whatever finals tournament is round the corner leaving tiers 2 + 3 with nothing to play for for 2 or 4 years respectively?

Also how would your proposal even work as you seem to suggest? You can't hardly tell a team that won their European Championship preliminary group in 2008 that they will will earn qualification to a World Cup group 2 years later as it's not even the same competition! Or are you saying that they will only earn their reward 4 years later in the next EC qual group, by which time they might not even be the same quality of team anymore?

Turning international football into a club promotion/relegation system doesn't make any sence imho. For one thing it'll take twice (or four times depending on your pov?) as long to see the benefit of a promotion.

To clarify my idea was not to stratify teams or to make games more competive. It was merely suggested to cut down on the number of fixtures UEFA countries have to play in order to qualify (and especially to elimate the farcical double-header system that is currently in place to fulfil fixtures. The best way IMHO is to get rid of some of the teams at the group stages and the fairest way to do that would be with a prelim round ala the one in place for the Champions League.

Pigman II

BaZmO* wrote:

Not in Ireland though, it's our animals that take performance enhancers, Horses, Greyhounds.......oh and Michelle Smith!

Yep, she swims like a fish and she looks like a ..... million dollars.

GuanYin

I'm optimistic but not overly hopeful of our chances.

The Czechs are, as many people have said, aging. I'll watch their WC with interest, I think they travel poorly and if they're blooding young players when we come around we have a chance to nick something. If we got 3 points I'd take it.

Germany are rebuilding, albeit at a higher level than us, and nothing I've seen in them from the WC qualifiers makes me think they're special. I think they are a well organised team, but I'd expect to get at least 2pts off them.

Slovakia are a useful side. I think they're far better than the "next israel" tag and they could cause us problems (mainly because we almost always play poorly against poor teams). The plus side is that the Czechs are something of a derby game for them. I'd like 6 points but I think 4 is the best we can hope for.

Wales are a declining side who, to be fair, are probably suffering in much the same way we are. I think they do have the whole "Celtic Passion" thing going for them (are the welsh celts?) and I'd be confident of them nicking points of the bigger teams - especially Germany. Unfortunately I think they could just as easily turn us over, but I'd expect 6 points from them when you look at "on paper quality".

Cyprus are improving, but I'd expect us to get 6 points off them.

San Marino, likewise I'd see an annoying defensive display by them on the cards, but we shouldget 6 points.

So there you have it. If we have all our players fit and play to the best of our ability, I reckon the best we'd hope for is 27 points. Would that be enough?

As for our team, I've been saying this since Stan's conference. Don't expect ANY major changes tothe Irish squad or team. I don't care what he says, I reckon it'll be "here comes the new boss just like the old boss". I'd expect Doyle to get blooded, but I don't think we'll see any master strokes or even a new player as interesting as morrisson via the Granny rule.

stevenmu

psi wrote:

As for our team, I've been saying this since Stan's conference. Don't expect ANY major changes tothe Irish squad or team. I don't care what he says, I reckon it'll be "here comes the new boss just like the old boss". I'd expect Doyle to get blooded, but I don't think we'll see any master strokes or even a new player as interesting as morrisson via the Granny rule.

Kitson is apparantly reconsidering, along with Elliot, Doyle, Morrison and Keane (and maybe Connolly and one or two others) we'll have a pretty strong striking line up (for an Irish team) that'll have enough depth to cope with a couple of injurys. If nothing else the competition for places might encourage Keane to some better performances.

Pigman II

psi wrote:

As for our team, I've been saying this since Stan's conference. Don't expect ANY major changes tothe Irish squad or team. I don't care what he says, I reckon it'll be "here comes the new boss just like the old boss". I'd expect Doyle to get blooded, but I don't think we'll see any master strokes or even a new player as interesting as morrisson via the Granny rule.

That's not such a bad thing tho and certainly not a portent for doom. When Charlton got us to Euro88 sometime like 3/4s+ of the players he used had been available to Eoin Hand when we finished an embarrasing 4th in our WC86 qual group.

I'm of the opinion that Kerr definetly didn't get the most out of the players available to him and that we DO still have enough at our disposal to be a 2nd place finishing side again. We've been so long now watching them play rubbish football that we're starting to believe they ARE rubbish footballers. I for one don't take that opinion.

GuanYin

stevenmu wrote:

If nothing else the competition for places might encourage Keane to some better performances.

Only if he has the courage to drop him when he plays poorly.

Actually, I disagreed with Kerr saying that the players had let him down in the qualifying with the exception of Keane, who I think DID let down Kerr. He owed Kerr alot more than the the performances he put in.

I don't think that strikeforce is particularly exciting. Elliott and Doyle may improve, but Elliott will be a Championship player in 8 months time and it remains to be seen whether Reading keep Doyle after promotion - or indeed if he cuts it in the premiership if they do. Keane is a fantastic talent who is one of spurs best players at the moment - for Ireland he is lazy, undisciplined and does not play for the team. Morrison, for all his shortcomings, is our most consistent striker - which says it all really.

I think if the team is organised better and learns to string some passes together we may have a chance. Again, alot will depend on Robbie Keane or whoever our main strikers are. How many goals did Keane get in the 6 matches against our main rivals France, The Swiss and Israel? How many would you expect from a striker in a qualifying team?
For that matter, how many did he get against the 4 games against Russia and the Swiss in our previous Euro Campaign?

Vokes

Why are people saying Czech Rep. are an aging team. Yes, Smicer, Koller, Nedved will be retiring soon. But they also have:

Cech
Grygera
Hübschman
Kováč
Ujfaluši
Plašil
Rosický
Baros

...all very good or decent players under 27.

And their U21 team won Euro 02, so they've other talent still to come through.

Pigman II

SofaKing wrote:

Why are people saying Czech Rep. are an aging team.

It's called self-delusion. Happens here about the same time every 2 years.

cournioni

SofaKing wrote:

Hübschman
Kováč
Ujfaluši
Plašil
Rosický

Having fun with your keyboard?

Seaneh

SofaKing wrote:

Why are people saying Czech Rep. are an aging team. Yes, Smicer, Koller, Nedved will be retiring soon. But they also have:

Cech
Grygera
Hübschman
Kováč
Ujfaluši
Plašil
Rosický
Baros

...all very good or decent players under 27.

And their U21 team won Euro 02, so they've other talent still to come through.

Robert Kovac is 32, can't get a game for Juventus and really slow.
Hubschman is slow and played for Shaktar! Plasil is muck Ujfalusi isn't great Baros is a headless chicken and Grygera isn't all that and a bag of chips.
only Rosicky is world class form that lsit.

stevenmu

psi wrote:

I don't think that strikeforce is particularly exciting. Elliott and Doyle may improve, but Elliott will be a Championship player in 8 months time and it remains to be seen whether Reading keep Doyle after promotion - or indeed if he cuts it in the premiership if they do. Keane is a fantastic talent who is one of spurs best players at the moment - for Ireland he is lazy, undisciplined and does not play for the team. Morrison, for all his shortcomings, is our most consistent striker - which says it all really.

I think if the team is organised better and learns to string some passes together we may have a chance. Again, alot will depend on Robbie Keane or whoever our main strikers are. How many goals did Keane get in the 6 matches against our main rivals France, The Swiss and Israel? How many would you expect from a striker in a qualifying team?
For that matter, how many did he get against the 4 games against Russia and the Swiss in our previous Euro Campaign?

It may not be a very exciting strike force by other countries standards, but by ours I think it's pretty good. Elliott has already shown a lot of energy and a bit of imagination in the green shirt and Doyle promises some of the same. If the rest of the team can have the vision to support them well we could finally have an attack that we'd be fairly confident would break down the weaker teams. Iirc Staunton had a good eye for spotting runs and making good passes, if that's a quality he can bring to the team, along with resurrecting the 'put em under pressure' policy, I think we can expect to see some inventive play going forward.

(I'll admit that's all possibly a little too optimistic )

Guy:Incognito

The sad thing is that a bad player like Baros will probably score a coupel against us and we wont qualify.

cournioni

Personally lads, the games against Germany or Czech Republic don't worry me. I think all of the pressure is off Ireland at this moment in time which is a great thing as we are now seen as underdogs again. When Ireland are underdogs, they always seem to pull a rabbit out of the hat from somewhere. Be it Houghton's goal against England or Italy, McAteer's goal against Holland and so on.

The games that really worry me in this group are the ones against Slovakia and Wales. Ireland will be expected to win both of these games and in the end, might not deliver like the games against Austria in 95, the Swiss games these last two campeigns and the Israel games in the last campeign.

We must beat Slovakia and Wales in order to qualify. I think if we get past them we'll be in there with a shout.

KdjaCL

We are screwed, 4th seeds dont normally qualify and the fact we dont normally qualify having to been to one ever isnt going to help us.

Lets look at as a team building exersice, would have liked our games in Croker to be successful ones cant see us filling it if we lose our 2 away games.

Assuming Staunton goes for the tried and tested get the biggies out of the way early method.


kdjac

Vokes

Seaneh wrote:

Robert Kovac is 32, can't get a game for Juventus and really slow.

Robert Kovac is from Croatia. Radoslav Kovac (26) is the one im on about, he plays for Spartak Moscow.

Hubschman is slow and played for Shaktar!

Shakhtar are playing Uefa Cup football, i think he's a pretty decent defender.

Plasil is muck

I haven't seen enough of him to comment. I'll take your word for it.

Ujfalusi isn't great

I think he is

Baros is a headless chicken

I agree, but he really does turn it on for the national team.

and Grygera isn't all that and a bag of chips.

I thought he was pretty handy in Euro 2004.

only Rosicky is world class form that lsit.

Rosicky vs Kavanagh sends me into a cold sweat

Rikand

masterK wrote:

There's not too much travelling involved, only slovakia in eastern europe.

and Czech Republic...which is strangely enough, right next door to slovakia

GuanYin

SofaKing wrote:

Rosicky vs Kavanagh sends me into a cold sweat

I don't know about that, I don't think any intelligent person would fancy the prospect of being marked by Kavanagh.... ask overmars and gilberto....

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

eirebhoy

I'm delighted with the draw. The easiest team in each Pot and we wouldn't have qualified so its good to see a mixture from the weakest team in Europe to the most succesful team in Europe.

Germany will qualify, they just find it impossible not to and they are a very decent team.

Nobody is being dillusional by saying the Czech's are ageing or whatever. They have excellent strength in depth to cover for injuries but their first team is not unbeatable. They have Cech, we have Given. They have Grygera, we have Finnan. They have Baros, we have Keane. They have Rosicky, we have Duff. Player by player they are not that much better than us. Nedved came out of retirement to play in the World cup but he'll retire again after that. Poborsky is still a regular is also retiring. Koller will retire. Smicer is a Czech first teamer ffs. Jankulovski will still be backup to Maldini until Paolo's legs fall off. Ujfalusi is their first choice centre half and one of their best players and he plays right back for Fiorentina.

We have a great chance of beating the Czech's, mainly because with them being 2nd in the world we won't be expected to. We played a friendly against them not so long ago and beat them. They take friendlies as seriously as us and it was their first defeat in over 20 games. We'll have a better team this time and they'll be weaker and I'll put us as 6/5 favourites to beat them in Dublin. Any points away from home against the top 2 seeds is a bonus imo.

I don't know what to think about Slovakia. They're probably the weakest team in Pot 3 so I suppose I'm happy to draw them. The only players I recognise is Nemeth and Gresko. Varga was a regular with them until he got dropped down to about U12 level after Celtic were trashed by Artmedia. We have to beat them in Dublin.

Wales will be a nice big match which again we should win but anything can happen. They're better than given credit for and certainly deserved something from their home game against England. Again, we should beat them at home but if we beat them in Cardiff it will be some acheivement given our away record.

Cyprus. F**king Cyprus. Ex Wales manager, Gould was on Setanta today telling us about Wales' recent 1-0 defeat over there and how it could have been a lot more if it wasn't for the Welsh keeper. Sound familiar? How many of us were looking at teletext until the dying minutes when Cyprus were holding Switzerland 0-0 until the last few minutes in Basel? We were all hoping Cyprus could hold on when they went 1-1 with Switzerland in Cyprus. Half their team plays in a pretty decent Greek league. The other half plays for a strong Cypriot team doing well in Europe. They are much better than given credit for and a team I would have wanted to avoid.

San Marino. YES! The only teams that would stoop so low as to play them in a friendly in the last 5 years were Leichtensten and Estonia. They've scored 2 goals in the last 4 years. We might scrape 4 points from these.

evilhomer

I think a lot of people are underestimating the slovakians, sure they don't have household names playing for them but niether did Isreal in the last qualifiers.

We shouldn't underestimate any of the teams (except san marino )

Wales will be up for it just as much as us.

PHB

I'm going to stick my head out here and say we will qualify along with the Czech's.

Pepe LeFrits

If it was Kavanagh vs Rosicky then you might as well not even bother turning up, fortunately there are another 10 players on the pitch to help out. Keeping Rosicky quiet in front of the back 4 isn't an easy ask though.

Ireland don't do well in the Euro qualifiers and I don't see this one being any different. We could beat ze Germans or the Czechs at home but I don't think it will matter because we're going to get fewer points off Slovakia and Wales than the top seeds are.

[Jackass]

Ah, whatever group we got was going to be daunting on paper...I just hope Stan can put his head down now and get on with it, and ave us ready when the time comes. (Still can't believe I'm talking about stan as Irish manager *shakes head*)

It's a mixed bag, and like last time, I'd expect a lot of teams to take points off each other... It's a tall order, but if we can win our home games, I'd fancy us to get second...Unfortunatly, I don't think we will...3rd is where we'll finish, about 4 points off Germany and 10 off Czech...



We'll wait and see...anything could happen and I look forward to a few great games too

evilhomer

DubGuy wrote:

We'll wait and see...anything could happen and I look forward to a few great games too

Sure don't you know for a fact that we will be on the edge of our seats when it all comes down to the final game, as usual

Kingp35

I have to say that I am reasonably happy with the group, it could have been a whole lot worse. We certainly have the capability to beat both Germany and the Czechs at home. If we could nick a draw against either of those sides away from home then that would put us in with a real shout.

For me though the group will be decided by the results we pick up against Slovakia, Wales and Cyprus because I am 100% certain that we will drop points somewhere in those matches. I am personally more worried about the Welsh game than I am the Slovakia game because it will be played as a local derby. I can see us dropping points in Cardiff anyway. The Cypriots as we now are hugely under rated and can easily cause a shock. I do also feel though that Germany and Czech Rep. can both easily drop points against these other teams as well. International football is becoming alot tighter these days.

So it will be tough but we do have a chance to qualify. I personally think 3rd is where we will finish though