Palestinians plump for Hamas...

Whistle Blower

Suff wrote:

I think its about time!
Israel want the Palestinians to disarm yet Israel is getting FREE weapons from the US!!!
if you look at the previous history of talks between the two, one thing for sure that Israel use the term
"Shoot first and never ask questions!"
so if a Palestinians movment who desided to use the same Language that Israel uses this is considered as an illegal and a terror act ??? really!
dont forget that Israel has a blind backing from the USA no matter what they do [UN Resolutions that the US vetoed so it wont effect Israel]

the Palestinians have had suffered more than 100 years now [First wave of immigration (Alija), 30,000 Jews from Eastern Europe arrive in Palestine in 1903, link] so let them take the actions that suits them, they know what they want!

FREE Palestinian

Do you actually believe your on bull****, oh but are'nt you the one from the terrorist state Syria, Israel will always win and your old outdated rehtoric is boring me...

Manic Moran

I've a feeling a deal will be done with Fata as they at least know where the levers of power are even if they used them poorly.

Apparently Fatah were approached by Hamas to form a coalition government, Fatah declined and stated that they would prefer to be in opposition than work with Hamas. Little love lost there, it seems. It also seems that Hamas were as susprised by this as everyone else. More likely, it was a protest vote against Fatah and its corruption than a vote of support for Hamas. End result is the same though, Hamas is now in charge. Curiously, the Palestinian security forces aren't too happy about it. I'm not sure under whose specific authority they work, but AP have reported the some forces have staged protests and demanded that they remain under Fatah control. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's the way they want it.

I think what we will see is one of three things:
1) Hamas will very soon tone down the rhetoric, abandon the goal of the destruction of Israel, and set about trying to figure out how to run their area. They may not want to do it, but they do need the external help which will be denied them if they fail to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
2) Hamas will not recant, and the PA will fail due to a lack of external support. Hamas will find their time in power to be very short, and their support levels afterwards to be at an all-time low.
3) Hamas will not recant, and the Israelis will decide 'Better invade before the next wave of bombings than afterwards' and re-occupy the Palestinian terrorities in their entireity.

I find the earlier calls on this thread for Arab countries to unite for the Palestinians to be unfounded in the case of history. Other than providing a rallying call, the Arab nations have generally ignored Palestinians and their refugees from other actions.

NTM

Wibbs

Manic Moran wrote:

I find the earlier calls on this thread for Arab countries to unite for the Palestinians to be unfounded in the case of history. Other than providing a rallying call, the Arab nations have generally ignored Palestinians and their refugees from other actions.

Very good point.

Suff

Deleted User wrote:

Suff, it's bad enough that you rewrite history. But at least don't contradict yourself.

Simple yes or no answer, were there Jews in the area before 1903? If you say yes, then your first post above is wrong, if you say no then your second one is.

ahh.....your trying to be smart!!!
I was talking of the Zionests [Jews] that came from europe, america and africa. in 1903 30,000 jews came from the cregions listed above. the Jews in palestine at that time were Palestinian jews. no issues with them.

PS: read on the subject before posting.

Suff

Whistle Blower wrote:

Do you actually believe your on bull****, oh but are'nt you the one from the terrorist state Syria, Israel will always win and your old outdated rehtoric is boring me...

FACT....go read about it and see for yourself!!!

Yes I am from Syria!!!!
I see a country can become a Terror nation because some nutter {defined International Law/Killed 100,000 Civilians since March 03} said so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so we are terroists if we object to the Zionest/USA agenda!!???
you seem to be well educated on the MiddleEast subject.

go back to your Skynews/CNN and keep watch of the terror alert ohh..... it's gone orange better stock up on food hurry!!!

Suff

Manic Moran wrote:

Apparently Fatah were approached by Hamas to form a coalition government, Fatah declined and stated that they would prefer to be in opposition than work with Hamas. Little love lost there, it seems. It also seems that Hamas were as susprised by this as everyone else. More likely, it was a protest vote against Fatah and its corruption than a vote of support for Hamas. End result is the same though, Hamas is now in charge. Curiously, the Palestinian security forces aren't too happy about it. I'm not sure under whose specific authority they work, but AP have reported the some forces have staged protests and demanded that they remain under Fatah control. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's the way they want it.

I think what we will see is one of three things:
1) Hamas will very soon tone down the rhetoric, abandon the goal of the destruction of Israel, and set about trying to figure out how to run their area. They may not want to do it, but they do need the external help which will be denied them if they fail to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
2) Hamas will not recant, and the PA will fail due to a lack of external support. Hamas will find their time in power to be very short, and their support levels afterwards to be at an all-time low.
3) Hamas will not recant, and the Israelis will decide 'Better invade before the next wave of bombings than afterwards' and re-occupy the Palestinian terrorities in their entireity.

I find the earlier calls on this thread for Arab countries to unite for the Palestinians to be unfounded in the case of history. Other than providing a rallying call, the Arab nations have generally ignored Palestinians and their refugees from other actions.

NTM

I would find that point 1 might be the case here, as they cant have any formal/international connections with the EU if they keep up the same agena. but i wont see that happen in public, a well covered deal might be cook as we speak. they have done this in the past [with the old palestinian authority - Fatah] and if you want to look at it from Isreal point of view it better for them to close the deal before Hamas get wider suport.

I would disagree with the point regarding the arab nations, IMO ...

if they would stop interfering with the palestinians, the palestinian people could have their own say on how to run and solve their problems without some one feeding them the words.

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

ahh.....your trying to be smart!!!
I was talking of the Zionests [Jews] that came from europe, america and africa. in 1903 30,000 jews came from the cregions listed above. the Jews in palestine at that time were Palestinian jews. no issues with them.

Fair enough. What if 30,000 Muslims had decided to settle in Israel in 1903? Or Christians? Both could lay some claim to the place, I would imagine.

Yes I am from Syria!!!!
I see a country can become a Terror nation because some nutter {defined International Law/Killed 100,000 Civilians since March 03} said so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in fairness, Whistle Blower he has you there.

so we are terroists if we object to the Zionest/USA agenda!!???

Nope, you're terrorists if you start blowing up kids by using other kids as human bombs.

if they would stop interfering with the palestinians, the palestinian people could have their own say on how to run and solve their problems without some one feeding them the words.

And what, in your view, would the palestinian people say or do?

Suff

Suff wrote:

PS: read on the subject before posting.

PS: You made an error by contradicting your own post. Trolling or childish put downs do not correct that.

So anyway, I take it you are now confirming that your point about the first Jews arriving in 1903 was wholly and completely incorrect.

Suff

Wibbs wrote:

Fair enough. What if 30,000 Muslims had decided to settle in Israel in 1903? Or Christians? Both could lay some claim to the place, I would imagine.
in fairness, Whistle Blower he has you there.

Nope, you're terrorists if you start blowing up kids by using other kids as human bombs.

And what, in your view, would the palestinian people say or do?

No he didn;t!

When did Syria ever blow up kids or any person!!! what a claim!!!
we did not ingage in any of the above and you can do a quick research on it.

IMO..if they were allowed to run their country / goverment without outside influences a palestinian state could have been established.

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

When did Syria ever blow up kids or any person!!! what a claim!!!
we did not ingage in any of the above and you can do a quick research on it.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that I don't call people looking for self determination terrorists. When they start to kill civilians I do. When they call for the extermination of another culture/race/faith I have the problem

IMO..if they were allowed to run their country / goverment without outside influences a palestinian state could have been established.

Under what form though?

Suff

Deleted User wrote:

PS: You made an error by contradicting your own post. Trolling or childish put downs do not correct that.

So anyway, I take it you are now confirming that your point about the first Jews arriving in 1903 was wholly and completely incorrect.

Still you cant get it !!!!!

MAN............there were JEWS in palestine before 1903....ok!....
the Bloody 30,000's in 1903 I'm talking about came from europe,usa and africa!!!
then over 75,000 came in 1939.
Please read on thie history of the jewish state and you would know that these figures are not made by me!!!
here are the links for your own viewing...

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_oppose_immigration.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
http://www.antiwarcommittee.org/resources/Palestine/PalFly.pdf

and for why america is so pro-israel:
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/111483/831114007.html

to be honest...it would help if people would read into the history and facts from the UN and actual historian records to get the full picture.

Suff

Wibbs wrote:

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that I don't call people looking for self determination terrorists. When they start to kill civilians I do. When they call for the extermination of another culture/race/faith I have the problem
Under what form though?

Again when did Syria attacked civillians???
so it's ok for Israel to call for the termination of the palestinian people!!??!!

Suff

another link some of you migt like to read
Palestiniane Christians support hamas

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ACC5E814-DB9A-4C8C-9C5C-D2F5795720BA.htm

Suff

check AlJazeera news:

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

Again when did Syria attacked civillians???

Misunderstanding again. I didn't say Syria attacked civilians. doesn't matter anyway.

so it's ok for Israel to call for the termination of the palestinian people!!??!!

Personally I think one bunch of zealots are as bad as the other tbh.

Again I ask two things;

1, Under what form of government would you see a Palestinian state?

2, What if 30,000 Muslims had decided to settle in Israel in 1903(or before)? Or Christians? Both could lay some claim to the place, I would imagine.

Suff

Wibbs wrote:

Misunderstanding again. I didn't say Syria attacked civilians. doesn't matter anyway.Personally I think one bunch of zealots are as bad as the other tbh.

Again I ask two things;

1, Under what form of government would you see a Palestinian state?

2, What if 30,000 Muslims had decided to settle in Israel in 1903(or before)? Or Christians? Both could lay some claim to the place, I would imagine.

1. a people lead goverment, under a united palestinian groups, they are so divided when they should be supporting each other to achive their common goal of a Palestinian state.

2. jews, christians or muslims don't fall as a racial category. so a claim by faith isn't enough!

there were no issues raised by the arabs for the 30,000 jews, as the region's Jewish population at that time was %11 being multi faith.

the problem started when jews increased their numbers and forced a Jewish state regardless to the other faiths.

ShayHT

Suff,

there is no arguing with most of the people up here. I've had endless arguements with people who "saw a documentary on FOX" and with hardly any, in most cases no knowledge of the history of the region and how Israel came into being.

I hope the EU does not cut off the aid to Palestine, seeing as the US give Israel 10-15 Billion a year, and I'm sure Hamas can do a better job than Fatah has been doing in recent years.

A religion does not make a country, people do.

toiletduck

ShayHT wrote:

I hope the EU does not cut off the aid to Palestine, seeing as the US give Israel 10-15 Billion a year

whats that got to do with anything?

toiletduck

Israel have cut off funding to the PA btw
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0201/mideast.html

ShayHT

Thats got to do with the fact that Israel doesn't need funding, it had a great economy, whereas Palestine doesn't have a great economy and needs the funding.

It is being said that the EU may cut funding because Hamas are a terrorist group, well what is the IDF, the illegal settlers, the illegal wall, the land grabs..... theres no talk of the US cutting funding to Israel.

toiletduck wrote:

whats that got to do with anything?

toiletduck

ShayHT wrote:

Thats got to do with the fact that Israel doesn't need funding, it had a great economy, whereas Palestine doesn't have a great economy and needs the funding.

It is being said that the EU may cut funding because Hamas are a terrorist group, well what is the IDF, the illegal settlers, the illegal wall, the land grabs..... theres no talk of the US cutting funding to Israel.

of course not, they can give (or not give) money to whoever they want. Israel is their ally, why wouldn't they help it out.

Suff

the point is... there is NO balance in the method used by the states.
Israel is heavily funded/ Armed while the Palestinians get scraps from the states.

I dont understand the fear of Hamas winning the elections?
Israel has a longer history of violence and still to this day maintain their bloody agenda [higher body count]

Suff

one thing to add...

When the EU & Some of the Arab countires provide support and funding to help bulid a Palestinian infrastructure {Schools, Airports, Hospitals, Police, Social offices for everyday life requirements} most if not all get destroyed by the Israelie goverment!

The EU is P***ed off at Israel for such actions and did give several warnings .....but they always fall on deaf ears as long as the USA is there to spoils it's little Daughter {Israel}

another thing....

the nerve of Israel to ask the Palestinian authorities to disarm Hamas!!!!
how could you expect a poorly/badly run authority with hardly any resources to undertake such a task!!! while the mighty Israel with all its power and arms failed to do so for years!

Suff

Suff wrote:

When the EU & Some of the Arab countires provide support and funding to help bulid a Palestinian infrastructure {Schools, Airports, Hospitals, Police, Social offices for everyday life requirements} most if not all get destroyed by the Israelie goverment!

Well, when you harbour terrorists, hide terrorists and now elect terrorists, you should expect the odd bit of destruction every now and again.

As I said before, next time the Israelis send in the gunships, at least the rest of the world and the media won't get all soppy over the poor Palestinians. You make your bed of nail, you get to lie on it.

Suff

Deleted User wrote:

Well, when you harbour terrorists, hide terrorists and now elect terrorists, you should expect the odd bit of destruction every now and again.

Terrorists!! so I take when the french fought the German invation they were terrorists!
do you want them to let go of their land, freedom!!!

if you were alive in 1920 I wouldn't be surprised if you backed the english over your country!!!

Deleted User wrote:

As I said before, next time the Israelis send in the gunships, at least the rest of the world and the media won't get all soppy over the poor Palestinians. You make your bed of nail, you get to lie on it.

.....you seem to have the world and the media mind set on this issue!!?? didnt know that they refer to your judgments!?

anyway....
I would think thats the Biggest mistake Israel yet to do!

this would only start a full hands on War and not a militia war, as Hamas is the Goverment now with large support!

The World have witnessed the serveral attempts by Israel to stop the process of establishing a Palestinian state.
why?

The Palestinians will be ale to hold on to their historic right of return rcognised by the UN in 1968. Israel had planned to get all palestinian refugees living in neighbouring counties to wave off their Palestinian identity for the ID of the country they live in. {Syria, Lebanon, egypt, Jordan}

Suff

Suff wrote:

if you were alive in 1920 I wouldn't be surprised if you backed the english over your country!!!

Suff, what in God's name are you raving about?

Anyway, back to Israel. They have a right to protect their nation. I say send in the gunships, put the settlements back up, squeeze the Palestinians to the sea or the Jordan or up to the Lebanon again. Israel should flex their muscle and stop pussyfooting around, this election will give them the excuse they have needed for years. Time to put manners on them I say...

Suff

and why are you so against Palestine, cant wait to see them get destroyed and all defending for Israel??

Suff

Suff wrote:

and why are you so against Palestine, cant wait to see them get destroyed and all defending for Israel??

I'd like to pretend to get all emotional for Palestinians, I mean it's human nature to root for the underdog. And then I look at what the Jewish people have suffered through history and I think 'you GO for it kids. Wanna country, get a gun and go fight for it then'. And they did. And everyone hates them because they crushed the Arabs in the 6 Day War, and everyone expects them to somehow tolerate the odd suicide bomber on a bus or attack on a synagogue and grin and bear it. And then they go out and kick ass, and the other Arab countries look away and the Palestinians go crying to the world? Folks, give up the bombers and maybe you'll get a chance. Elect them? Well screw you too then?

Fionnanc

Suff wrote:

Again when did Syria attacked civillians???
so it's ok for Israel to call for the termination of the palestinian people!!??!!

Hama, Syria, Sunni uprising, city liquidated while Israel sought to stop rocket attacks from LEbanese territory(Syrian occupation at the time-Still haven't fully withdrawn from LEbanon). 1967 war- Syria(as part of united arab republic ) did most to Precipate war, and when Egypt and TransJordan fighting didn' assist them and stayed behind defensive positions.
Syria-responsible for funding and controlling Fatah before Palestinian self-rule. PLO was grouping of other Palestinian resistance groups backed by Egypt.
Syria 15% Alawite Arabs(?Cruscader remnant/descent)-Ruling class due to Assad's Coup. Treat unrest from Sunni minority as above.
Has kept large numbers of Israeli's in bunkers a lot of the time due to intermittent shelling of civilian areas when Syria controlled the Golan(Israel should never give the Golan back for this reason)

Whistle Blower

Suff wrote:

and why are you so against Palestine, cant wait to see them get destroyed and all defending for Israel??

Point to not there is no such thing as Palestine and if you want to go into it the Jews and Zionists are biblical owners of the land...

There is no such thing as a Palenstinian Language, Culture or History, as anyone can claim to be a palestinian and also people under Israeli Law and rule of all religions have more rights than the would in the PA...SUFF get you facts right I have lived there, served in Lebanon and now what the score is your Down trodden PA rehtoric is old and boring as at the end of the day Israel is a state that will stay there for EVER have the right to exsist and as for the terroritories it is amazing how the supposed Palestinians want it hold did i say palestinian or should I say Egyptian,Jordanian, Tunisian,hell I'm Irish I could claim I am a palestinian..... The lands of the west bank and gaza were barren until the Israeli's irrigated them and cultivated them and oh the Arabs then wanted it...

There is no such thing as a Palestinian they are arabs...Hamas is a terrorist organisation and there days are numbered and just one more fact HAMAS was set up by the Israelis to counter the PLO