should we have a single party goverment?

constitutionus

just spun out of the "what party do you support / vote for" thread. i was just wondering if people think single party governments are desirable or would be beneficial?

my own personal opinion is no. i think irish society has fractured so much that no one party adequetly represents the country as a whole anymore and that coalitions are the way to go. tempering one parties policies with anothers to at least get a blend of what the majority want.

as to what type of coalition i leave up to you guys, have fun:D

No, I think power is already too centralised at the moment. I think Ireland could do with a more consensual approach to politics. Currently once the government gets into power, compared to other more parliamentary democracies in Europe, there is very little avenue for the those outside of the government to influence the policy process. Any oppostion (legitimate or not) to policy is usually pretty easily ignored. This means government doesn't have to put as much effort into forming good policies, as it won't be challenged on them. Thus all the ****ups like electronic voting etc.

segadreamcast

Of course, a swing in the opposite direction (rainbow gov's) could lead to little being done by means of crucial decision making...it's a fine balance, but I think we're doing it better here than in a lot of other countries.

Dictatorships are quite efficient decision makers. I guess the question is wheter a democractic government should be concerned with representing a majority or as many people as possible.

segadreamcast

If it represents as many people as possible, it simply won't make unpopular decisions which are for the common good - e.g. the smoking ban.

"Dictatorships are quite..." What a secondary school amateur debate argument to put forward - did I even say dictatorship? Nope, I said our present system, which is a two-party centrist system... nothing near a dictatorship.

segadreamcast

Deleted User wrote:

No, I think power is already too centralised at the moment. I think Ireland could do with a more consensual approach to politics. Currently once the government gets into power, compared to other more parliamentary democracies in Europe, there is very little avenue for the those outside of the government to influence the policy process. Any oppostion (legitimate or not) to policy is usually pretty easily ignored. This means government doesn't have to put as much effort into forming good policies, as it won't be challenged on them. Thus all the ****ups like electronic voting etc.

Also, the solution to that problem is strong opposition - not more parties in Government.

How would you make opposition stronger though?

I didn't say we need more parties in government, just a lower policy influence differential. This could be done by a more potent committee system.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

ateam

Fianna Fail and the PDs are much alike anyway..very few policy differences.

Cork

It is a pity that we don't have single party government.

It is crazy people voting to partys on the basis of their manifesto.

Such manifestos are then binned after the election for a programme for government.

Nothing much democratic about it really.

Victor

Do you mean "single party goverment" (no coalitions) or "single party state" (no other parties allowed at all)?

Cork

Victor wrote:

Do you mean "single party goverment" (no coalitions) ?

Yes.

The influence of parish pump, single issue politicians is a threat to our democratic system.

rsynnott

Cork wrote:

It is crazy people voting to partys on the basis of their manifesto.

Such manifestos are then binned after the election for a programme for government.

Of course, in single party systems, the manifestos are always honoured.

Fine Gaeler

So long as it's not FF majority Government.Back to the days when Fianna Fail almost bankrupt the country to secure their electoral success?NO thanks!!!

I can't see my party winning an overall majority within the next 10 years so coalitions for now...

netwhizkid

Fine Gaeler wrote:

So long as it's not FF majority Government.Back to the days when Fianna Fail almost bankrupt the country to secure their electoral success?NO thanks!!!

I can't see my party winning an overall majority within the next 10 years so coalitions for now...

Oh yes Martin O'Donoghue, He almost broke the country, I found several similarities between his budget and that of Mr. Cowen. There will be no overall majority in 2007. It was a fierce pity that Fianna Fail did not get the overall majority needed as it would have stopped alot of the PDs Mantra. FF by comparison were never as right wing as the PDs I would almost go as far a saying that the PDs are not far Behind the Republicans in the US except they are actually liberal on thing like contraception, state and church separation etc. I hope that they have no TD after the next election. I shall be voting Labour with Fine Gael in at no. 2. I will vote the Mullingar accord all the way. Is it no wonder that Ireland's most Neo-Liberal Capitalist paper the Sunday Business post is report is reporting a rise in FF supporter-ship. They would give their two front teeth to have a PDd majority and privatise all essential services and do away with all social welfare. I have heard a rumour too that American economists and Neo-Liberal politicians along with a major consortium of Private Enterprises are doing a study on this Country with intention of copying our Capitalist style. Apparently the United States are not as cut-throat as this country when it comes to capitalism and exploitation of workers. Like where else in the world could (very shortly under Bolkenstein) you hire workers on 3rd world wages and have them working for thoses wages in the 1st world and use it bust the unions and drive down the native wage in X country. This is what Charlie McCreevy and the FF Pds Government has almost achieved. Is that democracy and fairness? That is a capitalist utopia. I bet the Us wish they could join the EU if that is forced down the throats of the continent of Europe.

I for one hope Kenny and Rabbite have the Dail in their hands in 16months. If Kenny don't start fighting and making noise it won't happen, the man is a pure wuss and totally afraid to make noise.

Fine Gaeler

Enda Kenny is refined,he's intelligent and won't get angry unless he is really irked.I have seen Kenny in the Dail when angry and my God was he effetive.I remember that at the time of the break up of the Labour/FF coalition in 1994 Kenny was one of FG's most effective speakers.

As leader of the opposition Kenny has steadily become a thorn in the side of the Government netwhizkid.He has made good use of questions in exposing Ministerial failures and the Taoiseach's lack of leadership.I think you're a little unfair in your assessment my friend.One thing is certain, this is the most coherant opposition that Bertie has ever faced, and he's struggling to cope.

DadaKopf

IMO, coalitions are good for democracy. I wouldn't like to see a return to single-party government. Actually, I think Ireland needs a new party system.

Then again, I'm hoping for the day that we abolish parties as the basic unit of national politics and move towards something much more democratic.

flogen

Coalitions, IMO are a mixed bag.
To one degree it means parties have to cut back on the manifesto that got them all the votes, but at the same time it ensures that no single party can dictate the direction of a country for a 4 year stretch (at least they're answerable to their coalition partners... it's a start I guess).
One change I would like to see to the current political system in Ireland, and it was mentioned here before, is that all political parties should be forced to publish a list of parties they would consider for coalition after an election, depending on certain factors of course (the negotiations).

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

Oh yes Martin O'Donoghue, He almost broke the country, I found several similarities between his budget and that of Mr. Cowen. There will be no overall majority in 2007. It was a fierce pity that Fianna Fail did not get the overall majority needed as it would have stopped alot of the PDs Mantra. FF by comparison were never as right wing as the PDs I would almost go as far a saying that the PDs are not far Behind the Republicans in the US except they are actually liberal on thing like contraception, state and church separation etc. I hope that they have no TD after the next election. I shall be voting Labour with Fine Gael in at no. 2. I will vote the Mullingar accord all the way. Is it no wonder that Ireland's most Neo-Liberal Capitalist paper the Sunday Business post is report is reporting a rise in FF supporter-ship. They would give their two front teeth to have a PDd majority and privatise all essential services and do away with all social welfare. I have heard a rumour too that American economists and Neo-Liberal politicians along with a major consortium of Private Enterprises are doing a study on this Country with intention of copying our Capitalist style. Apparently the United States are not as cut-throat as this country when it comes to capitalism and exploitation of workers. Like where else in the world could (very shortly under Bolkenstein) you hire workers on 3rd world wages and have them working for thoses wages in the 1st world and use it bust the unions and drive down the native wage in X country. This is what Charlie McCreevy and the FF Pds Government has almost achieved. Is that democracy and fairness? That is a capitalist utopia. I bet the Us wish they could join the EU if that is forced down the throats of the continent of Europe.

I for one hope Kenny and Rabbite have the Dail in their hands in 16months. If Kenny don't start fighting and making noise it won't happen, the man is a pure wuss and totally afraid to make noise.

Another post of complete trollery and un supported opinion presented as fact [ a generous use of the word opinion at that ]
Permanently banned
Good bye

reason

DadaKopf wrote:

Actually, I think Ireland needs a new party system.

Wouldn't mind seeing FPTP alright

Shame about netwhizkid, he's been amusing...

Victor

I contend that the only people who would go out of their way to achieve single party government at the expense of other factors are extremist FF hacks, the Tories and the British Labour Party (when in government).

ziggy67 wrote:

I'm not really a fan of coalitions. It just seems that nobody gets the Government that they voted for & parties having to compromise makes their manifestos worthless

It doesn't make "manifestos worthless", can you suggest some crucial points of the FF or PD manifestos that were idealogicly opposite and can't be implemented?

ziggy67 wrote:

It just seems that nobody gets the Government that they voted for

Really? I would argue more people get more of the government they voted for.

Of the alternatives in a hung Dáil, Coalition or Minority Government (aka at the will of the independents), which better represents the will of the people?

Vic Mackey

single party government.....hmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if its like china or the ussr then yea!

i mean, who wants to be rich and have a good standard of living anyway!

Fine Gaeler

As an FG supporter I would have reason to fear FF majority Government.I think that FF on their own would change direction at a whim eg Bertie's declaration of socialist credentials.I also think they'd be too trusting of extremists in the North.As such, I'd feel FF single party Government would equal instability.

However, as an Fine Gaeler, I think that if we had a chance of forming a single party government we'd shine.What I like about FG is the furthest left we are is the very centre while the furthest right we are is the centre right.FF vary from centre left to centre right. However, FG's advantage of a tighter base than FF is watered down by the fact we must form Government with labour.As such FG Governemnts will inevitably be more left leaning than FG supporters are comfortable with.If FG was brave enough to stand alone as a party it would be more popular as its simple message would appeal to more people as it would not be sub-merged with Labour's ideology.The day when Fine Gael can form a Government on its own is a day when it can achieve more for Ireland than it currently could in partnership with labour.

constitutionus

consensus seems to be coallitions are good . the one thing i really like about our political system is the choice we have. irish politics has its faults and personally i wouldnt mind some of the open democracy that they have in europe where if you can get an amount of signatures you can force a referendum or leglislation on a particular issue, but we STILL live in a country where if any of us want to form our own parties and stand for election we can do so. and democratically thats healthy, i'd hate for us to end up like the states where the majority vote isnt acted on because of a convoluted college system and politics is pretty much the reserve of the well off.

i personally would like to see more parties in the dail and hope we have coalitions with them as opposed to a single party shored up by one or two indepenants. simply because it'd be more stable. not sure if i like the idea of more than 3 parties sharing power though, seems inherently unstable. it really should be two for best results, but if they work well i guess theres no problem.

so what match ups would you fancy,who do you think is the natural bedfellows of which parties?

DublinWriter

NoelRock wrote:

"Dictatorships are quite..." What a secondary school amateur debate argument to put forward

I remember we got that as a mock Inter-cert English question back in 1985- "Ireland should be a Dictatorship".

As Haughty was in government at the time, my essay just consisted of the sentance "I thought it already was". I thought I was being smart. I failed.

constitutionus

DublinWriter wrote:

I remember we got that as a mock Inter-cert English question back in 1985- "Ireland should be a Dictatorship".

As Haughty was in government at the time, my essay just consisted of the sentance "I thought it already was". I thought I was being smart. I failed.

class, if only the examiners KNEW what he was up to. irregardless of what you think of him its nice to know there was SOMEONE the banks were afraid off:D

on the subject isnt OMAN a "benign dictatorship" or something

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote:

I remember we got that as a mock Inter-cert English question back in 1985- "Ireland should be a Dictatorship".

As Haughty was in government at the time, my essay just consisted of the sentance "I thought it already was". I thought I was being smart. I failed.

So you should. Fitzgerald was Taoiseach from 1982 to 1987 and FG were in Government.

Haughey was in opposition...

samb

Cork wrote:

The influence of parish pump, single issue politicians is a threat to our democratic system.

Down in Kilkenny for the Local elections there was an Anti-Paedeophile candidate. I'm sick of all those pro-paedeophilers