migrant EU workers entitled to child payment

Bettyboop

migrant workers here are to get the childs allowance whether
their children are here or not.
it will cost taxpayers €150 million just to pay a third of them.:mad:

The_Minister

valerie wrote:

migrant workers here are to get the childs allowance whether
their children are here or not.
it will cost taxpayers €150 million just to pay a third of them.:mad:

Only if they claim it. Most don't know their rights.
I'm told it is some EU law that stops them preventing them claiming it.

Zombrex

valerie wrote:

migrant workers here are to get the childs allowance whether
their children are here or not.

Which they are prefectly entitled to do (assuming they qualify) ... do you have a point???

valerie wrote:

t will cost taxpayers €150 million just to pay a third of them

What?? So you mean it will cost €450 million to pay all of them?

And by the way it is only going to cost €450 million if there are 2.6 million children whos parents are working in Ireland and qualify for Children Benefit. As far as I know there isn't that many Irish people let alone migrant workers. Did you just pick the number of children in Poland or something??

Why don't you go work in Poland and claim children's allowance there, balance things out :rolleyes:

Madge

Wicknight wrote:

Which they are prefectly entitled to do (assuming they qualify) ... do you have a point???

The point is that peoples hard earned money will be given to migrants so they can sustain their kids WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY. Such a fkn disgrace. :mad:
Do you not see anything wrong with that? :rolleyes:

The_Minister

The 150 million is just a Fine Gael figure - you sure its right?
150,000,000 divided by 1000 (per year) = 150,000 x 3 (get full number of migrants if 150000 only one third) = 450,000 migrants. That doesn't feel right

MrPudding

valerie wrote:

migrant workers here are to get the childs allowance whether
their children are here or not.
it will cost taxpayers €150 million just to pay a third of them.:mad:

Is that on top of the free car, mobile phone, cooker and pram or is that all included in it?

Presumably the children are still the workers dependents so therefore entitled to the payment. Do we have any further info on this? I am in for a contract in London. I might claim CB over there while I'm at it.

MrP

Bettyboop

All EU workers to get childcare benefit

30 January 2006 19:17
RTÉ News has learned that the Early Childcare Allowance is to be paid to the children of all workers from EU countries living here, whether or not their children are resident in Ireland.

As a result, Fine Gael says the Government may have underestimated the cost of the allowance by as much as €150m.

The allowance of €1,000 per year, given to parents of all children under six, was announced in the budget in December, and was to be paid from the middle of this year to help parents defray the high cost of childcare here.

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The Government says the payments to children not resident here will not significantly add to the cost of the scheme.

ronbyrne2005

i can see single migrant men claiming for phantom children unless this scheme is well policed ,heck i might start claiming i have 3 kids in latvia!

Duras

valerie wrote:

migrant workers here are to get the childs allowance whether
their children are here or not.
it will cost taxpayers €150 million just to pay a third of them.:mad:

Migrant workers as u call them are tax payers as well, so I don't see what's your problem?

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

i can see single migrant men claiming for phantom children unless this scheme is well policed ,heck i might start claiming i have 3 kids in latvia!

Maybe you do and now is the time to reveal the secret

gandalf

Rather than direct your ire at the migrant workers maybe you should direct it at the Government who thought up this get elected quick scheme and the civil servants who didn't think through all the outcomes of it before giving it the all clear.

If a private employee made an error in a project that cost his employers a large amount of money he would be fired outright and rightly so. As usual I doubt the Minister in charge Mini Brennen or the civil servants will be made accountable for another cock up and waste of money in good old Celtic Tiger Ireland.

Zombrex

Madge wrote:

The point is that peoples hard earned money will be given to migrants so they can sustain their kids WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY. Such a fkn disgrace. :mad:
Do you not see anything wrong with that? :rolleyes:

Your hard earned money has been paying for people kids who aren't even in this country for years. They are in the EU, just like you. Thats the point. Any one in the EU can do this.

Why would the French or Italians or any EU country pay child support for children when their French or Italian parents are off working in another EU country, contributing to another EU countries economy and most importantly paying tax in another EU country.

People are very quick to forget about the entire point of the EU after we have taken trillions of French, German and Spainish peoples hard earn cash for ourselfs ... maybe we should give back all our roads :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

pete

gandalf wrote:

If a private employee made an error in a project that cost his employers a large amount of money he would be fired outright and rightly so. As usual I doubt the Minister in charge Mini Brennen or the civil servants will be made accountable for another cock up and waste of money in good old Celtic Tiger Ireland.

I'm curious which you consider to be a "waste of money" - the scheme itself, or paying it to migrant workers?

AARRRGH

I would assume paying PRSI etc entitles you to childrens allowance? Who gives a **** if the children are in Ireland or not?

...

Also, I noticed your wording was against migrants rather than against the goverments decision. Quite pathetic really.

gandalf

pete wrote:

I'm curious which you consider to be a "waste of money" - the scheme itself, or paying it to migrant workers?

The Scheme itself is. If this government were serious about childcare they should allow people write off the costs against their taxes instead of coming up with short term headline grabber schemes that they haven't even thought out. Or maybe put some thought into State Creches and extended facilities in schools to keep pupils after hours until their parents can pick them up. For most people €1000 is nothing compared to the costs they actually have.

As usual its nothing but a short term fix for the Proles to vote back in the same tired old muppets.

gandalf

Edited the title to accurately reflect the subject matter.

The_Minister

MrPudding wrote:

Presumably the children are still the workers dependents so therefore entitled to the payment. Do we have any further info on this? I am in for a contract in London. I might claim CB over there while I'm at it.

MrP

Go ahead its your right - they can't stop you

The_Minister

Firespinner wrote:

The 150 million is just a Fine Gael figure - you sure its right?
150,000,000 divided by 1000 (per year) = 150,000 x 3 (get full number of migrants if 150000 only one third) = 450,000 migrants. That doesn't feel right

Fine Gael has withdrawn that figure. On Q&A Mairead McGuinness cut it to 50 million but i doubt its even that. That figure leads to 50,000 migrants and thats bollocks. Most migrants either bring their whole families here or are single. I only know one who has kids back home and they are grown.
I guess Fine Gael has joined Labour in the race for the bottom.

gandalf wrote:

the civil servants who didn't think through all the outcomes of it before giving it the all clear.

The migrants WERE factored in when the cost was being added up

samb

Wicknight wrote:

Your hard earned money has been paying for people kids who aren't even in this country for years. They are in the EU, just like you. Thats the point. Any one in the EU can do this.

Why would the French or Italians or any EU country pay child support for children when their French or Italian parents are off working in another EU country, contributing to another EU countries economy and most importantly paying tax in another EU country.

People are very quick to forget about the entire point of the EU after we have taken trillions of French, German and Spainish peoples hard earn cash for ourselfs ... maybe we should give back all our roads :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well said, people are so quick to condem immirgrants without even thinking about the economics of it.
These people were educated abroad (poland or whereever paid for that) they have come here and are fuelling our economy (paying taxes and building our infrastructure). People then begrudge them a 1,000 euro a year for leaving a child a home? What country pay for the education of that child? Please think about these things before jumping on the Xenophobic band-wagon.
These immigrants are paying for Irish people's childrens health care and education not the other way around.

Far Corfe

Wicknight wrote:

People are very quick to forget about the entire point of the EU after we have taken trillions of French, German and Spainish peoples hard earn cash for ourselfs ... maybe we should give back all our roads :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

People of Europe would consign the whole EU experiment to history if allowed to vote on its further existense. It is becoming the evil empire before our eyes.

Ireland never received trillions? Do you know how much a trillion is?

In fact what we have received is a tiny percentage of the value of all fish taken from Irish waters by EU fleets. Spain alone has taken more in this way than our total receipts.

pete

Firespinner wrote:

Fine Gael has withdrawn that figure. On Q&A Mairead McGuinness cut it to 50 million but i doubt its even that.

In fairness, €50million was the figure they were using from the word go:

Currently there are 166,000 migrant workers from EU states working in Ireland. If just 3 out of 10 of those workers has a child under 6 – either with them or in their country of origin – the exposure of the Irish taxpayer for the early childcare supplement would be of the order of €50 million per year. In addition, under EU law, the parents of those children – given the notional number suggested above, would be entitled to claim child benefit payments of approximately €100 million per year. These payments apply to all children up to the age of 18.

http://www.finegael.ie/fine-gael-news.cfm/NewsID/27410/action/detail/level/page/aid/10/year/2006/month/1

billy the squid

Madge wrote:

The point is that peoples hard earned money will be given to migrants so they can sustain their kids WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY. Such a fkn disgrace. :mad:
Do you not see anything wrong with that? :rolleyes:

And the Hard earned cash of the French, Germans, and British and every other contributing EU state helped pay for things like Extra Dart Carriages, Motorways and all the crap associated with the National Development Plan even though we are not even living in those countries.

Nobody complained then. Every worker in this country is allowed to claim tax credits for their children, and are allowed to claim child benefit for their children. why should tax paying workers from other EU countries working here not be entitled to the same. It is their tax money too you know.

Hobbes

“Currently there are 166,000 migrant workers from EU states working in Ireland. If just 3 out of 10 of those workers has a child under 6 – either with them or in their country of origin – the exposure of the Irish taxpayer for the early childcare supplement would be of the order of €50 million per year.

Do we have an exact figure rather then 1 in 3 migrant worker which may or may not be correct.

As it stands now you get about 150 euros a month plus the one time 1000.

150x12 = 1800 + 1000 = 2800.
166,000 / 3 = 55333.3 (lets say 55334).

this year: 2,800 x 55,334 = 154,935,200
other years: 99,601,200

So I don't know where they got the 50 million from. Their maths is crap and the 1 in 3 is speculation at best.

Even so, 1,800 - 2,800 a year is a pittance when you factor in how much tax is paid each year.

I would be intrested to know exactly how many migrant workers have children and how many don't pay taxes. That would be more important.

The rest is just scare mongering.

.. The only contention I really see in the report is that Children allowance would be given if the child was not in the country. If the person is paying taxes and have proof they have a child I don't see the problem. I can see how it may be open to abuse but no more then people in Ireland.

fly_agaric

Hobbes wrote:

Even so, 1,800 - 2,800 a year is a pittance when you factor in how much tax is paid each year.

Nice to see that Ireland is so rich now that government cock-ups exposing our welfare system to 10's of millions of Euro of unexpected liabilities (I don't think Bertie et al really intended to be such big-hearted Arthurs) are considered to only cost us "a pittance" which we will easily replace becuase we are raking in the money on taxes at the mo. You should be in government my friend.

Edit: why are you saying the 50million figure is "scaremongering"/crap maths when your estimate is bigger?
Are they subtracting an estimate of tax-take per migrant worker?

GypsumFantastic

valerie wrote:

RTÉ News has learned that the Early Childcare Allowance is to be paid to the children of all workers from EU countries living here, whether or not their children are resident in Ireland.

Quite incredible.

If legislators had to actually earn the taxes that they so freely spend then perhaps they wouldn't be so slapdash in their distribution of the workers' wealth.

ambro25

Well, that's an interesting development.

We never obtained anything for our baby daughter
(i) either from France (my nationality and one of my daughter's), wherein I've paid full-rate income tax for years,
(ii) or the UK, where she was born a couple of months before we moved to Dublin (and where she's supposedly entitled to the "baby starter pack" fund-thing), and wherein I've also paid full-rate income tax for years,
(iii) or Ireland, where I also pay full-rate income tax (and all the others - VAT, duties, road taxes, etc.).

In each case, we've been sent packing - in Ireland not so long back.

Yet in my job I save some Irish investors millions in (fully legit') tax-free royalties every year. That's for colouration, of course - yet it shows that it is pretty much still a one-sided affair. About time for a welcome change.

lostexpectation

GypsumFantastic wrote:

Quite incredible.

If legislators had to actually earn the taxes that they so freely spend then perhaps they wouldn't be so slapdash in their distribution of the workers' wealth.

aren't they redistributing the weatlh that for exmaple these Polish workers are earning and contributing??

Hobbes

fly_agaric wrote:

Edit: why are you saying the 50million figure is "scaremongering"/crap maths when your estimate is bigger?
Are they subtracting an estimate of tax-take per migrant worker?

It is scaremongering because the figures don't add up and are based on a wild estimation. It also doesn't factor in how many migrants pay taxes. Which would probably be most, but a large number can claim back most taxes if not all (although generally it is the companies that do this).

Even so the 2/3 that don't have kids from the report would be paying in taxes towards the 1/3. The tax from actual Irish people would be neglible.

Its just another "TKKK UR JBBSSSS" type report tbh.

bonkey

Madge wrote:

The point is that peoples hard earned money will be given to migrants so they can sustain their kids WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY. Such a fkn disgrace. :mad:
Do you not see anything wrong with that? :rolleyes:

Another rant which can be boiled down to "why do we have to pay for those less well off now that we're rich enough not to be the ones getting the handouts any more...rolleyes...mad...foam-at-mouth...rant...rage".

I suppose you'd complain about Irish kids, living in Ireland, receiving welfare from the State whilst their father works abroad too. Y'know...we pay but some other nation gets the tax-benfit of the parent's work.

I don't know....

jc

bonkey

ambro25 wrote:

We never obtained anything for our baby daughter

I would point out that this is distinct from saying "we were never entitled to receive anything".

jc

fly_agaric

billy the squid wrote:

And the Hard earned cash of the French, Germans, and British and every other contributing EU state helped pay for things like Extra Dart Carriages, Motorways and all the crap associated with the National Development Plan even though we are not even living in those countries.

Big difference between money earmarked for helping a poorer country you want to trade with with its infrastructure (useful) and money being wasted on unnecessary and unexpected current spending (useless). If the hit turns out as bad as it could (it may not) it is disgusting and almost as bad as wastage on things like Cullen's voting machines, the Health service IT system etc.

GypsumFantastic

lostexpectation wrote:

aren't they redistributing the weatlh that for exmaple these Polish workers are earning and contributing??

That would be up to these Polish workers to provide. It's not for the State to extend its largesse to foreign nationals who do not even reside in the country.

If a Polish worker wishes to fund a family abroad then that is what his or her personal income should be used. The State's income from taxes should not be used to support families abroad.