Magic Mushrooms have just been made Illegal in Ireland

The_Minister

rubadub wrote:

Pointless? the fact is we have a morbidly obese woman preaching to us about health, she cant look after herself but is expected to have the say in what is right for the rest of us. I would not like to see a finance minister who is in severe debt and cannot manage their own finances, or a racist/prejudiced justice minister.

She is bowing to the advice of the sun and joe duffy listners, rather than the UN or the WHO (who angry banana regards as "fecking gimps")

Not the same. She has always been a "hefty" woman but that does not mean she is very unhealthy.
(I know this is sexist but I don't tese women about their weight just like i don't make jokes about hannafin's husband)
I'm just saying that we don't have to jump in the pigsty.

Catsmokinpot

Firespinner wrote:

Not the same. She has always been a "hefty" woman but that does not mean she is very unhealthy.
(I know this is sexist but I don't tese women about their weight just like i don't make jokes about hannafin's husband)
I'm just saying that we don't have to jump in the pigsty.

yes it does the woman is obese, that is unhealthy.....

PTL

would you go to an accountant who was homeless? an eye examiner who was blind as a bat? etc etc ... just like a mate went to a dietition before because he was way too heavy and he walked in and she was about twice his size... about 25stone and was giving out to him for eating to much .. he just walked out on that one ... imagine going to your gym and someone mary harneys size is doing your assesment haha id do the oposite of what she says ... just like the government have a confirence about obesity in ireland and mary harney goes missing even though its her department ... How can this heffer preach about health when she couldnt do a lap around the pepper canister never mind a lap around a track. She is on the way to being morbidly obese (some would say the sooner the better)

its just the same way a fat person shouldnt preach about healthy eating etc in the same way a fat person(or any size) who has no idea about drugs or obviously hasnt read the un studies on mushrooms can preach and ban them!

If the heffer was in any other job but telling irish people about health then she wouldnt be under fire about her weight... if she was minister for transport or any other it wouldnt be so ironic ... sure who voted her in ... no one PD's are fools and would never get in on there own.

Actually who here did put PD's as number1 in the elections? and who here didnt bother voting at all

Morrigan

Whether the person who made the uneducated ban on mushrooms is fat or not is irrelavant. It's her actions in this case that matter. Lowering yourself to making personal comments about her weight just undermines your credibility, as in "Oh I can't think of any more reasonable points, and I'm just feckin frustrated with the whole thing, so I'll call Harney a heffer...". I understand your frustration but for all you know she may have a glandular problem etc. etc.
If you are pro-mushrooms, keep an open mind...

Btw I voted Green and Red...

Catsmokinpot

Morrigan wrote:

Whether the person who made the uneducated ban on mushrooms is fat or not is irrelavant. It's her actions in this case that matter. Lowering yourself to making personal comments about her weight just undermines your credibility, as in "Oh I can't think of any more reasonable points, and I'm just feckin frustrated with the whole thing, so I'll call Harney a heffer...". I understand your frustration but for all you know she may have a glandular problem etc. etc.
If you are pro-mushrooms, keep an open mind...

Btw I voted Green and Red...

i understand where your coming from, but, its not for no reason, she is an overweight, unhealthy person preaching about health issues.... this is what i dont understand about certain aspects of a centralised government.... not only is she sitting up in dublin making decisions for the rest of the country, shes sitting there and not listening to her own health advice, unless she wants the rest of the country to be fat like her? how can someone who is miles away from me, never seen me, doesnt know me, has never looked at an issue propperly, tell me what i should and shouldn't be doing to myself?

nobodythere

Yes but weight has nothing to do with this. I for one know fsckloads about nutrition, and if I had the willpower equal to knowledge I'd be as fit as a feckin fiddle. But I don't. Food has nothing to do with this. It's politics, it's ignorance, it's fear, it's genuine concern on some part.

I for one wonder how many people in the dail have tripped

rubadub

grasshopa wrote:

I for one wonder how many people in the dail have tripped

well the song says in the UK all the MPs trip on glue:v:

The thing with harney is that it is a case of "do as I say, not as I do"
If eddie hobbs was €10,000's in debt and living off credit cards while eating out every night he would not be taken as seriously either, no doubt he could have valid points but it does knock credibility if people cannot practise what they preach. You all must admit it is ironic to have a morbidly obese health minister, if she smoked 100 a day or was an alcoholic downing 2 bottles of vodka a day I would say the same thing. If a man of 33 died from a heart attack due to a poor diet and his mother went and asked her to ban chocolate bars or some other junk food they would not be taken seriously.

rubadub

this is a dutch government study on Psilocybian mushrooms.

download and rename the extension .pdf

nobodythere

I understand what you're saying, but because she cannot control her eating does not mean she can't make a competent decision on drugs.

Just so you know I'm not in agreement with the ban, I just don't think you're helping the case

ezone

This is the law pdf format :

http://s46.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0T1I9VPWPCWWS3KQUARW2KXQZN

rubadub

grasshopa wrote:

because she cannot control her eating does not mean she can't make a competent decision on drugs.

Thats true, it was her own unacceptable ignorance and hypocrisy that meant she could not make a competent decision on drugs.
The fact she is morbidly obese just means it doesnt come as a surprise to me that she is ignorant of other health issues too.

The_Minister

Catsmokinpot wrote:

how can someone who is miles away from me, never seen me, doesnt know me, has never looked at an issue propperly, tell me what i should and shouldn't be doing to myself?

She is there for logistics such as medicine patient/doctor ratio and overall vision. It is other (thinner) consultants who would give nutritional information

Catsmokinpot wrote:

Thats true, it was her own unacceptable ignorance and hypocrisy that meant she could not make a competent decision on drugs.
The fact she is morbidly obese just means it doesnt come as a surprise to me that she is ignorant of other health issues too.

Do you think fattys are dumb?

rubadub

Firespinner wrote:

Do you think fattys are dumb?

No. I said she was ignorant which does not mean stupid, it means a lack of knowledge, in a subject she should have knowledge in. She is the one signing in the laws after all. Stephen Hawking is an intelligent man but is probably ignorant about gaelic football, his job requires no knowledge of it, so that is fine.

She could be a normal weight person who smokes 100 a day and I would have made the same points.

ezone

Heres the new law as a pdf download

Link:

http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3EG9EYRTJWTT235W8RKFHDRHJI

The first part is an order banning psilocin

The second part is an exemption order for uncultivated psilocin - ie. in the wild

Can anybody with a legal backround please translate ?

rubadub

ezone wrote:

Can anybody with a legal backround please translate ?

I can only presume it is a loophole so farmers and green keepers wont be arrested, I would expect that personal possesion would still be illegal. But in the first few reports it did just say illegal to sell and consume.

rubadub

Only criminals gain from drugs ban
February 13, 2006 - irishexaminer.com

A DISTURBING trend has emerged in relation to recreational drug use in Ireland and the State’s response to it.

It appears that a new hard-line approach has been adopted towards this issue.

The U-turn on caution rather than prosecution for cannabis possession and the prohibition of magic mushrooms represent a step backwards in that it will do little apart from criminalise otherwise law-abiding citizens. Both of these substances are natural; they are plants that grow in the ground.

From a philosophical point of view, there is an element of King Canute in the idea that humankind can ban a plant. Will the State prosecute landowners if this nefarious fungus is found growing on their property?

The furore surrounding Trinity College’s research on ecstasy-users defies logic.

How can we understand the long-term effects of this synthetic substance if we do not investigate these effects? Surely a study that may yield valuable data on the physiological, neurological and psychological effects of this substance is to be welcomed, not condemned.

Debate continues within the scientific community as to the possible harmful effects of cannabis and mushrooms. For instance, the argument that cannabis use can lead to psychosis may have a degree of validity, but this is not a proven fact.

What is beyond dispute is that humans have been using these and other drugs ritually and recreationally for thousands of years and the vast majority of recreational drug users do not suffer adverse consequences.

Conversely, the prohibition of certain drugs results in a situation whereby supply is in the hands of criminals who will bulk up the substances with all manner of fillers, so greatly increasing the risk to the health of users.

I am not so naive as to believe that recreational drug use is a risk-free and harmless activity, yet the matter of personal liberty and freedom over one’s own body must be taken into account.

Does the State have the right to tell citizens what they can and cannot put into their own bodies? The patent failure of prohibitionist policies to reduce, let alone eliminate, illicit recreational drug use suggests that State interference in citizens’ personal lifestyles is a fruitless and costly activity.

Resources wasted in this moralistic crusade might be better employed in assisting people through educational and public health programmes targeted at reducing the harm associated with drug use.

Due to the potentially harmful effects of psychoactive substance (used until death), debate on this matter can be fuelled more by emotive reactions than rational analysis.

One would not wish to cause distress to the families and friends of people who have died from drug-related causes, yet the argument that the prohibition of certain drugs might save lives is spurious given the availability of illegal drugs and the near impossibility of cutting off supplies.

The issue can also be exploited politically because to be seen as tough on drugs is a potential vote-harvesting strategy. Neither of these reasons, however, forms a valid basis for the formulation of policy in this area.

It seems now that the various organs of the State are implementing a ‘mammy knows best’ approach to this area of social policy and, in so doing, are driving drug-related problems further underground, wasting garda time and resources, criminalising drug users, and maintaining an Orwellian interest in the personal habits of citizens.

Pat Leahy
Department of Applied Social Studies
University College Cork.

Morrigan

Very articulate. Fair play.
But nothing new.
It's a pity that the same argument has to be rehashed and regurgitated because no one listens the first time. A new approach has to be taken to convince those with the power to change things that things need to be changed!!! But what that is, I haven't a clue

BRING BACK THE SHROOMS - THEY AREN'T DOING ANYMORE DAMAGE THAN ALCOHOL!!!!

psilocybe

Very interesting quote from this article:
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13638

Speaking about the legislation change on Today FM's The Last Word, Minister Noel Ahern said: "The change in the law is to deal with the selling of these mushrooms. There is no change about those found in procession of the drug, unless it emerges that the quantities involved show a clear intent to sell, that's a different matter."

PTL

That link isnt working too well, can you put in the full one?

rubadub

From today's Irish Independent

Mushrooms 'made man fall to his death' from fourth-storey balcony during party
Breda Heffernan

COLM Hodkinson bought a box of €25 magic mushrooms thinking they were a "bit of fun" but less than an hour after eating them he was dead, having fallen from a fourth-floor balcony.

The Hodkinson family believe their son's death at the age of 33 was due to the hallucinogenic mushrooms he had earlier bought over the counter at an alternative lifestyle shop in Dublin city centre.

The successful young businessman and keen golfer had been a first-time user of the drug.
He allegedly bought the mushrooms to share with friends at a Hallowe'en party.

Yesterday his father Eoin and brothers Sean and Paul attended the opening of his inquest at the Dublin County Coroner's Court in Dun Laoghaire.

They heard in shocking detail how Mr Hodkinson sustained extensive injuries, including fractures to the facial bones and base of the skull and crush injuries to the brain, in the plunge from the balcony of his apartment at The Anchorage, Clarence Street, in the seaside town on October 30 last.

Insp Denis Henaghan applied for an adjournment of the inquest as the Director of Public Prosecutions is still considering whether charges should be brought in relation to the death.

Sean Hodkinson is reported as saying that his brother had heard that magic mushrooms were meant to be a "bit of fun" and that no real harm could come from them.

His brother and three friends ate the mushrooms raw from the packet, he added.

But around half an hour after taking three of the hallucinogenic mushrooms with some alcohol, Mr Hodkinson started feeling sick and vomited several times.

According to Sean, his brother then became agitated and scared and did not know what was happening to him.

Soon after he plunged to his death from the balcony.

In the days following their son's death, the distraught Hodkinson family launched a campaign to make the sale and possession of the hallucinogenic mushrooms illegal.
After petitioning their locals politicians they met Tanaiste Mary Harney in December.

In January of this year Ms Harney announced that she was introducing legislation banning the sale and possession of the mushrooms in both their raw and processed states.

Previously, it had been legal to sell them untreated.

After the introduction of the ban, owners of stores selling magic mushrooms branded the move a "knee-jerk reaction".

The large-scale selling of magic mushrooms in Ireland began around two years ago when a loophole in the legislation meant that unprocessed mushrooms could be sold over the counter.

Coroner Dr Kieran Geraghty adjourned the inquest to June 27 next.

He said: "This is a very tragic case and I want to extend my sympathies to Mr Hodkinson's family.

"How his death came about will be explained when the inquest is heard in full."

No mention of who would be prosecuted, is it the government/Harney for failing to ban them earlier? surely it cannot be the seller in the shop otherwise there are a hell of a lot of barmen and offlicence workers looking at very long stretches.

SeanW

Talk about a knee-jerk reaction. "Someone died, let's ban something." I'd never be crazy enough to take mushrooms, but I see no need to stop someone else so from doing - provided they are aware of the risks.

Akrasia

Banning mushrooms is a form of Mind control. The Government is controlling, by force, how I use my mind, what i experience.
I have never hurt anyone while under the influence of any drug. Leave me alone.

The_Minister

I think they are goin to charge to person who gave them to him.

Akrasia

they haven't even figured out if the mushrooms caused him to jump over the balcony/They can't even say if he jumped or fell. If he fell it was probably pecause he was disoriented or confused, both of those are symptoms of alcohom consumption. And if he fell because he was dizzy from the mushrooms, that is not a reason to ban them or to charge the people who gave the mushrooms to him., people are killed many times a year from falls sustained while drunk but we don't hold publicans or their drinking buddies responsible for this.

rubadub

Firespinner wrote:

I think they are goin to charge to person who gave them to him.

on what charge? selling a perfectly legal substance? Like I say, there would be plenty of barmen liable for drink driving deaths. Are they going to arrest all the old dears in health food shops who sold St Johns wort before it was made illegal?

If he had picked them would they be arresting the green keeper or farmer?

John Player

our minister for health is a joke, she can barely draw her own breath and this is the person who is in charge of our health system - how irish!

one person dies on mushrooms (which is terrible) and they get banned, hundreds of people every day die as a result of smoking and drinking and nothing as severe is done - why? cos mary need votes and they never really made that much tax back off mushies as they do other (leagilised socially acceptable) drugs.

The_Minister

Is it true that mushies + alcohol = EVIL

Akrasia

Firespinner wrote:

Is it true that mushies + alcohol = EVIL

I've taken Mushrooms after a little alcohol before and it didn't go too bad, but i wouldn't take them while i was drunk.

Ag marbh

I usually always take them while drinking or after drinking. I've mixed them with a cocktail of uppers and downers with no ills effects.

rogue-entity

Typical Nanny State, just like America and Britain. Why cant the government respect peoples freedoms. People have the right to do what ever they want to do in there personal lives, as long as they are not harming or influencing others. So if you want to drink, smoke and do drugs, it is your RIGHT to do so. Let the government be damned. In fact, just to spite Mary, I am NOT voting for the PD's or even FF.

Gang violence, and dangerous driving are far more lethal. In fact, we all know that smoking and drinking cause more deaths then any of the illegal drugs, but do you see the government banning those? No, of course not, they wont ban them anymore then they will scrap VRT (which is illegal).