Getting a M-16/AR15

rrpc

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Ok, taking the fact that i know nought about standard bolt action rifles, i know only about military weapons used by the RDF, can you recommend a decent cheapish bolt action .223 or thereabouts beginner rifle for firing at targets up to 300m range? (is it metres or yards with civvie targets? its metres in the military) so that if i do go to a gun seller, im not lead up the garden path to purchase something over priced? im interested in getting into competition shooting, indeed i hope to go for marksman and shooting team in my unit

AFAIK the competition shooting in military circles at 300m is done using a .308 target rifle exactly the same as the Olympic three positional discipline except over a greater distance and with a larger calibre..

rrpc

civdef wrote:

TBH you'd probably be as well off buying a .22lr. It'll save you lots on the cost of the rifle and ammo, allowing for more practice. To work on your marksmansip, you don't necessarily need to fire at 300m, 100m will do just fine, and ranges are a lot easier to find.

Well if it's the CISM he wants to get into, the .22lr target rifle would be a very closely related discipline

There is already an element of this in the pistol area - I'm thinking of stuff like fellas carrying a revolver on their hip when shooting targets with a rifle on a range - do they expect the targets to start shooting back, or to have to deliver a coup de gras?

Eh.. civdef, you just said 'blow of fat' You might have meant coup de grace, then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

civdef

Lol, em, yeah.

Sparks

rrpc wrote:

then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

There's a reason they call it "belly shooting"

Rovi

rrpc wrote:

Eh.. civdef, you just said 'blow of fat' You might have meant coup de grace, then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

Freudian Slip = when you say one thing but mean your mother.
:D:D

.

civdef

Morpheus, what sort of practice have you in mind?

If you want to practice rapid fire falling plates type work, you could look into a 22lr semi, perhaps with a low power red dot type scope.

If you're thinking serious target stuff, then the suggestions by RRPC are the ones to follow.

At the end of the day, getting any rifle and practicing with it will be of benefit, trigger time is trigger time.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

Freudian Slip = when you say one thing but mean your mother.
:D:D

.

lol :v:

Clare gunner

civdef wrote:

Right now you'd have a hard job to sell a need for a semi-automatic centrefire to the Superintendent as being necessary for target shooting (I'm pretty much figuring they haven't a hope for hunting).

The criteria that it will be assessed against is "why do you need a semi as opposed to a bolt-action?", indeed this sort of assessment will become enshrined in the Firearms Act when the proposed amendments go through.

If there were service rifle / falling plates competitions taking place, or the like, there probably would be a case for using them for target shooting.

You could argue the fact that you are left handed or disabled and that a semi auto fits your shooting [dis]ability better.As it is a major PITA to use a right hand bolt action being left handed and not many companies make left handed bolt actions.Or to custom a right bolt to left bolt will cost as much as a semi in the first place.
Should be no reason that a semi cant be used for hunting ,apart from the inbred snobbery of the plus twos & tweed brigade,who consider anything in technology more advanced from the 1910's as "dashed unsporting" ,and seem to be incharge of deer hunting policy here in Ireland,all you have to do is block a mag to three shots,if you go deer hunting.
And it would indeed be helpful if we had practical rifle or as Civ mentioned service rifle up and running.BUT there was already a precedent set here by one poster on this board getting one liscensed here.So an outright blank refusal would be very hard to justify as well.
Morphus
Oberland arms in Germany do a civillian Aug.It is a weird looking thing.No scope/carry handle,got a weaver rail instead.No flash hider,totally semi auto,the entire mechinasim is impossible to convert in any way to FA.And it has no fwd grip,but a very weird extra bit of plastic in front of the trigger gaurd,to make it a thumbhole stock.But it is somthing like 1,750 euros.:eek: You could always ask them of the possibility of making one into a straight pull bolt action by removing the gas system,and you would be using it like your one in the army with the dodgey gas system.[Somthing that can be done with most military semi auto rifles,especially in the UK.]

scout

left handed excuse chould been cought out easaly ,when you sign something

left eye dominant however is a different story,, if you can explain what that means to a super. and justify it

Clare gunner

Ah!But I was talking about us GENUINE,left handed,devils children.Who have to struggle around in a world that discriminates against us more artistic and innovative people.Equal rights for left handers!!!!:D

Vegeta

my girlfriend is left eye dominant which is a pain in the ass as my air rifle is right handed, so if I want to bring her plinking (once in a blue moon) it makes it that bit harder for her to have fun

macnas

I'm okay now.........

Umiq88

eye dominance doesnt make that much difference in rifle shooting just get her to close her left eye im left eye dominant as well but just close it for shotgun and rifle and the opposite for pistol shooting

Babble

Clare gunner wrote:

You could argue the fact that you are left handed or disabled and that a semi auto fits your shooting [dis]ability better.As it is a major PITA to use a right hand bolt action being left handed and not many companies make left handed bolt actions.

All you need is a copy of this book www.zombiesurvivalguide.com it clearly outlines why you need a semi auto/self loading rifle.

Clare gunner

Hmm that means I am in deep trouble down here.Going by the descriptions in the zombie survival guide,it means 90% of the town I am living in are zombies..:D .Too the superintendent pronto....well,if he is one as well.Guess I neednt bother then about paperwork and liscenses.:D

Babble

Hmm do you think this would pass the "idontlikethelookofdat" test?

Umiq88

are the guns always checking to see what they look like before the licence is issued i dont remember mine being checked unless they go into the dealers and take a look the gun was in a dealers in a different county to the where i was getting the licence

Clare gunner

Babble wrote:

Hmm do you think this would pass the "idontlikethelookofdat" test?
QUOTE]
If they could find the gun in there somwhere??:D

ASFIK they dont check it for modifications at all.You can modify it as you want,so long as it isnt FA or shorter than 24ins in a shotgun barrel.

woody

coyote6 wrote:

I'll try to attach a pic of the AUG.

I used it in the army by far the best compared to the other rifles we tested :

M16 A2
HK G27(I think) could be wrong
We even looked at the Famas a great weapon.....

If my memory serves me right there was a .22LR version of an AR-15 in circulation in the mid to late 80's

Clare gunner

woody wrote:

I used it in the army by far the best compared to the other rifles we tested :

M16 A2
HK G27(I think) could be wrong
We even looked at the Famas a great weapon.....

If my memory serves me right there was a .22LR version of an AR-15 in circulation in the mid to late 80's

Hmmm,I would rate the SIG 540 as proably top of the heap,or the Isreali Gallil.The Aug has the problem of being a bullpup and ASFIK you need a new bolt to change it to left hand use?Think you mean the HK93? that is the HK .223 calibre.
There was /is a 22 version of the AR15.But it fell along with the FAMAS and the AK copies under the "Idonlikedelookodat" Doj /Garda import rules.Along with the SPAS12 shotgun.:rolleyes:

Sputnik

The Aug has the problem of being a bullpup and ASFIK you need a new bolt to change it to left hand use?

Correct, though it's easily changed.

Sputnik

Assuming you can get a left handed bolt, they're like gold dust.

macnas

.223 Ammo test from Oberlandarms.de

KerryShooter

Southern Gun in the UK does a Bushmaster .22lr rim-fire, semi auto M4 looks same as current US issue M4 except only has 10rd mag. also wont have the punch of the 5.56mm nato cartridge
www.southern-gun.co.uk
105l.jpg

Clare gunner

KerryShooter wrote:

Southern Gun in the UK does a Bushmaster .22lr rim-fire, semi auto M4 looks same as current US issue M4 except only has 10rd mag. also wont have the punch of the 5.56mm nato cartridge
www.southern-gun.co.uk
105l.jpg

And also costs twice as much as it does in the EU or the USA.And will fall foul of the Idonlikedelookodat law.Better off getting the CZ flattop upper and rebuilding it to a mil config,if you want to at a later stage.

mayhem#

"I don't want no teenage queen, I just want my M14".
'nuff said.

E.

KerryShooter

mate of mine in the UK bought the M14 (M1a1) in straight pull bolt action after the semi ban, used it for PR, had a charging handle like it had come off a shovel, wouldn't mind one of the cheap Norinco M14 semi auto knockoffs saw one advertised in Canada for peanuts

Clare gunner

OUTSTANDING!!! Pvt Mayhem.Now can you sing the rest of that intresting USMC chant???:D
Kerry shooter,
Be careful of the Norinco M14.A lot of those folks in the know in the US claim that the recivers are not properly heat treated and of an inferior quality in both workmanship or accuracy.This could of course be a "buy USA only"type thing.But from what I have seen of Norincos stuff,and I have in the US a copy of the AK made by Norinco.It is all milled steel,not cast or pinned together stuff.Never had anything to do with the M14,so I cant say wether it is true or not.But just one to keep a heads up on.

KerryShooter

yeah i heard that about alot of reworked AK's & SKS's during the "Clinton Assault weapon ban", alot of companies sprang up doing sporterised assualt rifles, they were buying in surplus, eastern european rifles, touch up the blueing and stick on a sporter thumbhole stock and flog it as new made from genuine USA parts!!, i spose get what ye pay for, although i dont think the wife would be so understanding if i blew a good few grand on bringing in an original Springfield super match grade M1a1, :cool:
check out www.marstar.ca, they do the whole range, including the rem 870 clones, one with a 14" barrel, wont hit to many Snipe with that one.. they also have the clone of the winchester trench shotgun that i saw mentioned in one of the threades about legal barrel length.

Clare gunner

KerryShooter wrote:

yeah i heard that about alot of reworked AK's & SKS's during the "Clinton Assault weapon ban", alot of companies sprang up doing sporterised assualt rifles, they were buying in surplus, eastern european rifles, touch up the blueing and stick on a sporter thumbhole stock and flog it as new made from genuine USA parts!!,

Not quite.Companies and FFLs bought in huge amounts of them pre the Klintoon ban,and thy were in bonded warehouses and after a certain cut off date the BATF refused to allow any further imports of them into the USA.So to get those into the US ,they were cut up and had the reciver removed and sold as part kits.The "sporters"[my MAK90 is one] was the importers way of getting around the ban.There was 10/15 points that made an assault rifle from a civvie semi auto.Things like,pistol grips,[put a thumbhole stock on it]flash hiders[remove]big cap mag[remove ] bayonet holder etc.
The American made parts thing came in later,which means that for the rifle to be sold in the US it must have ten or more parts made in the USA.So many companies made exchange parts.There are many now who make complete made in the USA guns.The Ak and Uzi ,and Sig are one.
What I was referring to was the Chinese made M1a1,which was not under the import ban for some reason,was made in China and imported to the US,hadnt had their recivers properly heat treated.Not too bad on an AK,but on a m1a1 which holds all the pressure in it's reciver that could be fatal.But I have never heard of one exploding,so this whole arguement could be atypical [sic].Personally I wouldnt have a problem with using anything made in China by Norinco or China sports.Anyone who still mills their recivers out a block of steel is good enough for me.Rather than just folding,casting ,stamping and welding.Ok their finishing is abit on the rough side.But only where it doesnt show.

i spose get what ye pay for, although i dont think the wife would be so understanding if i blew a good few grand on bringing in an original Springfield super match grade M1a1, :cool:

Not necessarily true either.You could get a 2nd hand std grade rifle,do a glass bedding job yourself on a fibreglass stock,and you would be pretty good to go for under $1500. Would be a poor mans m1a match,but it isnt too different as to what a lot of police dept armourers in the US did with surplus M14s.

check out www.marstar.ca, they do the whole range, including the rem 870 clones, one with a 14" barrel, wont hit to many Snipe with that one.. they also have the clone of the winchester trench shotgun that i saw mentioned in one of the threades about legal barrel length.

Hmm,my snipe killer is a 24in mossberg slugster cylinder bore.:D

Yeah,the only trouble with those Winchester repros is;you cant import them as that exemption only applies to weapons already registerd in the State around the war of independance or after the civil war.They are now collectors pieces,and are worth big money.Plus the old ones have a disconnector in them that allows you to fire them by holding back the trigger and pumping the fore end .Called slam fire.

Plus,they would be a NFA type weapon[machine gun type law] in the US with a 14 in barrel.Min length is 16ins without a lot of Federal hassle and paperwork