What makes you the top rapper in the industry ?

Kristok

People round here keep saying selling records means nothing.

I believe that 50 cent is number one for the following reasons.

He has had the biggest records of the last few years making the biggest impact on the industy and making more money than most of the top rappers put together. He has set more records than any other rapper out, biggest selling first week since snoop and then doing the same out doing himself with the softmore album. As many songs in the charts at the same time as the beatles, no other rapper has done that period. A movie, a book, a game, a cloathing line (which you need to go to new york to see how many people actually wear it) a shoe which pretty much brought rebook back to the forefront.

A record label with some of the biggest names in hip hop signed to it, ma$e, mobb deep, mop only a fool would say they are not big names in rap and then his own artists who he has developed banks, buck , game etc. He has one of the biggest fan bases, you only need to go to any hip hop forum almost everywhere people are talking about something got to do with him. He is on magazine covers constantly.

As for his music he was a massive star before he even signed to shady, selling out concerts on the back of his music on mixtapes. While his softmore album might not have been all that it could have been his movie soundtrack shows that he still has what it takes. While its unlikly he will stay on top forever for right now his music is relavent enough to people buying it to keep him going for a long time imo. What does it take to be number one ?

So fine all that aside everything ive just said dosnt make you the number one out there then the only question I have is what makes you no. 1 in the rap game and who is the number one ? You all got up on your high horses saying im wrong when I said he runs hip hop well tell me who else does.

spacecoyote

Kristok wrote:

softmore album.

i take it you mean sophomore album!

but aside from my being petty and correcting grammar, i will only make one statement in this thread.

50 cent is to hip-hop, what Mcfly/Busted are to punk music!

i think if you asked any real punk fan if McFly are the best punk band in the world they'd probably laugh in your face. if you asked any teeny-bopper pop fan if McFly were the best punk band in the world they'd probably say yes.

If you asked any real hip-hop fan if 50 cent is the best rap artist in the world they'd probably laugh in your face. if you asked any teeny-bopper pop fan if 50 cent is the top rapper they'd probably say yes. and its the kids without a clue that put music to the top of the charts. the top hip-hop artists might not sell 8 billion albums, or whatever it is, but they have a loyal fanbase who recognise their music for their talent and skill.

if britneys bloke, kevin fetherline, has a number one when he comes out with his "hip-hop" album, will he then be the top rapper in the world and become your favourite Kristok?

Ay Cee

spacecoyote wrote:

50 cent is to hip-hop, what Mcfly/Busted are to punk music!

Brilliant analogy!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

50cent just appeals to wannabe gangsta' teenagers and misled friends of the aforementioned.
50cent is an entertainer because that is all he does. He is not a musician, a composer or an artist, just an entertainer.

scuba steve

but ye still cant deny that he has been the single best performing rapper of the last few years, based on succes and record sale etc.

Ay Cee

No one said he doesn't sell records.
The mix up here is equating sales to talent.
50 said something like "My favourite rapper said ch-ch-check out my melody" referring to Rakim.

I consider Rakim to be the greatest rapper of all time but he hasn't sold a whole lot. In fact the only way most people here would have heard of him is because he was affiliated with Dre.

Does exposure make you the greatest? No.
Does sales make your the greatest? No.

Kristok

spacecoyote wrote:

i take it you mean sophomore album!

but aside from my being petty and correcting grammar, i will only make one statement in this thread.

50 cent is to hip-hop, what Mcfly/Busted are to punk music!

i think if you asked any real punk fan if McFly are the best punk band in the world they'd probably laugh in your face. if you asked any teeny-bopper pop fan if McFly were the best punk band in the world they'd probably say yes.

If you asked any real hip-hop fan if 50 cent is the best rap artist in the world they'd probably laugh in your face. if you asked any teeny-bopper pop fan if 50 cent is the top rapper they'd probably say yes. and its the kids without a clue that put music to the top of the charts. the top hip-hop artists might not sell 8 billion albums, or whatever it is, but they have a loyal fanbase who recognise their music for their talent and skill.

if britneys bloke, kevin fetherline, has a number one when he comes out with his "hip-hop" album, will he then be the top rapper in the world and become your favourite Kristok?

How has my spelling got anything to do with who is number one in the rap game ? Ive given many reasons why 50 is the number one artist in the rap game you have given no reasons. So now you only care about the opinion of "real hip-hop fans" how very snobbish of you.

Like I said if hes not number one then who is.

Kristok

Ay Cee wrote:

I consider Rakim to be the greatest rapper of all time but he hasn't sold a whole lot. In fact the only way most people here would have heard of him is because he was affiliated with Dre.

Whats that got to do with anything ? I didnt ask if he was the best rapper of all time noone is even trying to say that but right now hes the biggest rapper out there he is on top of his game. What makes someone else better than him ? who is better ? just cause your lyrics are more complex at the end of the day if you dont sell your not making any difference. Ill easilly admit 50 has a limited range but so what right now he is on top.

Ay Cee

Look this arguement is gonna rage on and Kristok knows full well how people feel here but he continues to bring up the same arguement.

This forum can basically be broken down to two groups. Those into "rap music" since 50 and maybe Eminem came on the scene being the majority. They see 50 Cent et al as being great because they sell.

And those into "hip hop music" who've been listening to Hip Hop for more than 5 years who tend to view flow, wordsmanship, lyricism, punchlines etc the essence of a great MC. Which let's face it, none of which applies to 50. The simple fact is 50 is a mediocre rapper on a good day.

I'm not a 50 hater in the slightest but the way he has been put on this pedestal by idolaters is pure ridiculous.

Oh yeah, Ma$e and Mobb Deep biggest names in hip hop?! Mobb Deep haven't had a good album since Hell on Earth and Ma$e...I'll say nothing!

And I'm a Mobb Deep fan!

Ay Cee

Kristok there's no point talking to you because you don't factor any of that criteria into it.

You can't see past the fact he's flavor of the month. He sells records, we get the point.

Klimseven

50 Cent is the empitamy of everything that is wrong with mainstream culture. He is one of the best examples I can think of of people appropriating and raping a pure culture, robbing it of its essence and everything good about it (originality, DIY culture, skills, fun), extracting what they see will appeal to the lowest common denominator and selling their product as the 'real deal'. Keep that thick dic khead away from hip-hop (pop chart music isn't hip-hop Kristok, sorry)

50 Cent is the biggest selling rapper out, and I don't think that's something to be happy about

Kristok

Ay Cee wrote:

Kristok there's no point talking to you because you don't factor any of that criteria into it.

You can't see past the fact he's flavor of the month. He sells records, we get the point.

If you dont want to talk to me then why reply ? you guys say 50s not on top well again ill ask WHO IS.

Flavor of the month ? 3 years is a long month. I dont care if he is the best rapper ever I dont care if there are technically better rappers thats not the point. He is on top of the rap game.

And yes this forum is broken down into two groups their are people who act snobbish when anyone likes comercial rap and then theres everyone else.

Klimseven wrote:

50 Cent is the empitamy of everything that is wrong with mainstream culture.........

50 Cent is the biggest selling rapper out, and I don't think that's something to be happy about

Well if he is robbing the culture or not thats a whole other issue but he is the biggest selling rapper. And in this industry regardless of how evil and wrong that is sales are all that count if you dont sell your career dies. Nas signing to def jam is a prime example of this, hes starting to go downhill after stillmatic and is doing anything even signing to the label he has slagged off many times to try to get back on top. Is that a good thing ? no but its a reality of this game.

Ay Cee

Ludacris, Nas, Kanye West, Eminem, The Game all commercial rappers who's albums I own. I disregard some things you say because of your blind idolism of 50 Cent that doesn't make me snobbish.

Kristok

Ay Cee wrote:

Ludacris, Nas, Kanye West, Eminem, The Game all commercial rappers who's albums I own. I disregard some things you say because of your blind idolism of 50 Cent that doesn't make me snobbish.

I dont have idolism of 50 Cent thats all in your head I have argued he is on top of the rap game your replying saying he is not and not giving any indication of who is and why just shows your only replying to argue not to actually discuss it.

Orizio

New sig!!!:D

50 cent is to hip-hop, what Mcfly/Busted are to punk music!

To me Papoose,Joe Budden and Tradegy Khadafi are on 'top' in the game,but I'm basing that on consistency,current form and MC skills,three traits I would put far ahead off fame and money.I care about the best rapper,not the richest or prettiest.Thats just the way I see it.

spacecoyote

scuba steve wrote:

but ye still cant deny that he has been the single best performing rapper of the last few years, based on succes and record sale etc.

Nice save Scuba. i think we can safely say that if the criteria for deciding the top rapper in the industry is record sales then 50 leads the way by a long shot.

Kristok titled the thread "What makes you the top rapper in the industry?" i don't agree with him when he said that record sales, clothing line, etc are the main criteria. and i was not being snobbish when saying that real hip-hop fans don't respect 50 cent. but i do think that people who actually listen to hip-hop and regard themselves as hip-hop fans are more qualified to have an opinion on the matter than joe public who don't know of anything beyond 50 cent.

if you include longevity as your criteria, then you have to look at the likes of KRS-One whose consistently brought strong hip-hop to the game since the 80s and is up to about album 13 or so and counting.

if you're including influence on hip-hop, then Rakim, Nas, De la Soul, A tribe called quest, wu tang, to name but a few all score higher than 50.

if its current influence on the hip-hop game then surely jigga (although i'm not a fan), kanye, pharell and puff daddy are all more powerful than 50.(not one commercial rapper would refuse to work with any of those above, but i don't think they'd all be banging down 50s door looking for him to produce or feature on their records)

50 appeals to the lowest common denominator of hip-hop fans. to be honest i don't think he even really appeals to hip-hop fans, he is at the end of the day a pop artist who makes music that could be loosely described as rap.

Now, i've managed to get through this whole post without discussing underground artists at all kristok, or without delving into discussions of rhyme skills or flow, and i still come to the conclusion that 50 cent is not the top of the rap industry

Collie Collins

im number 1 in this game:

spacecoyote

i just heard, the top rapper in the game is the one with the biggest willy.......damn that puts me out:D

Ay Cee

I'm the top rapper in the game?!

How about that

ghostdancer

my criteria for top rapper:

great flow
great delivery
great lyrics



50 has none of these, just cos lots of idiots who've probably never heard of Slick Rick, Big L, and only know Nas from 50's disses, choose to buy his albums doesn't make him good. popular, yes. the only reason people are jumping on his label is because it's a brand name and it's guaranteed to selll them extra from their assocation with 50 as 50, the biggest selling rapper around, mumbles a few hooks on their singles probably increases their sales 10fold as the majority of people who buy and listen to 50's albums are idiotic teenagers who've **** all idea of any other kind of rap music apart from what mtv tells them there is.

50 cent is a brand, not a rapper. for all the categories i think makes a great rapper, 50 fails horribly in all of them. if 50 cent didn't have the exposure or advertising behind him for the last 2 albums, would they have been succesful on the streets, or among the more aware rap fans who don't wait for their next favourite artist off mtv? not a ****ing hope. throw enough money behind any kind of ****e and you can sell what you want.
westlife keep churning out the same ****e month after month, they continually sell, why? cos they have a huge following of teenagers that don't understand the concept of good pop music. they sell because they have the marketing, the brand, and there's enough idiots out there that know no different to what they're force fed by whatever outlet they get their fill off. similar to 50 cent.

yak_kadafi

sean_keevey wrote:

50cent just appeals to wannabe gangsta' teenagers and misled friends of the aforementioned.
50cent is an entertainer because that is all he does. He is not a musician, a composer or an artist, just an entertainer.

word.....peeps think its "cool" to talk about being shot 9 times and ****.....

to be a good rapper i think u gotta not forget where you came from and represent ur people to the fullest.........

Klimseven

"Mcs get a little bit of love and think they hot
Talkin bout how much money they got, all y’all records sound the same
I'm sick of that fake thug, r & b, rap scenario all day on the radio
Same scenes in the video, monotonous material, y’all don’t here me though
These record labels slang our tapes like dope
You can be next in line, and signed, and still be writing rhymes and broke
You would rather have a lexus, some justice, a dream or some substance?
A beamer, a necklace or freedom?
Still a nigga like me don’t playa hate, I just stay awake
This real hip hop"

Dead Prez - Hip-Hop

Klimseven

"Now, I don't bust a tec, bubble drugs
in the projects, or use mics to sell sex
Niggaz, nowadays is all about this
So much ying yang, it's ridiculous
If you got so much cheese where are the black distributors
And these record companies shake em down like mobsters
But impostors, like commercial locks are not rastas
Always fakin moves, never, makin moves
Asses shake, bottles pop, the government is breakin down
you fools, you work all week and give the devil back his loot
for jewels, and the steak on your plate is filled
with chemicals, still, brothers leave brothers
all battered and bruised, on the streets
Won't see snakes on my feet
The race is on, but I won't compete
In this competition, because I have a greater mission
I hope that you listen
Knowledge wisdom and understanding brings, long life
and health, think anything else and ya playin yaself "

Jeru tha Damaja - Playin Yaself

...just thought these seemed relevent...

Fighting Irish

Ay Cee wrote:

No one said he doesn't sell records.
The mix up here is equating sales to talent.
50 said something like "My favourite rapper said ch-ch-check out my melody" referring to Rakim.

I consider Rakim to be the greatest rapper of all time but he hasn't sold a whole lot. In fact the only way most people here would have heard of him is because he was affiliated with Dre.

Does exposure make you the greatest? No.
Does sales make your the greatest? No.

Does NO exposure make you the greatest? No.
Does NO sales make your the greatest? No.

Makaveli

What's your point exactly?

spacecoyote

the reason 50 sells so many records:
http://www.fhm.com/site/bigeye/link.asp?http://realgangsta.de/14190.html

people like this bloke are the reason talentless rappers spitting cliches are so popular.

If you haven't seen it, you should check out the video to the Roots track "What they do". its a classic, takes the pi$$ out of everything commercial hip-hop is

BolBill

All rappers should be lined up.... except for The Beastie Boys and Public Enemy.

P.Diddy would be first against the wall.

Orizio

BolBill wrote:

All rappers should be lined up.... except for The Beastie Boys and Public Enemy.

P.Diddy would be first against the wall.

Typical Guardian reader's reply.

Never liked the Beastie's,PE's beats are painful to me.It takes a nation of millions was a classic,after that...

And seriously how many Rap/Hip-Hop albums have you actually got?

spacecoyote

gotta love that signature Orizio, pure genius:D

and whereas i do agree with the sentiments expressed by Bolbill, it is a touch extreme.

BolBill

Have Straight Outta Compton - still like it

ubu

Fighting Irish wrote:

Does NO exposure make you the greatest? No.
Does NO sales make your the greatest? No.

Does it stop you from being the greatest? No

Nice quotes Klimseven, was gonna post dead prez one aswell

ubu

"Whenever I write, I put myself out of place from other cats
So it don't sound like another brother's rap
I smother tracks with raw shít, niggas aren't able to bite
What I bring to the table is height
Then I easily superceed, niggas need what I got
Reason I'm hot, there's no other raw season of pot
While most motherf**kers follow the guidelines and hit by 101
Jakki the Mota mouth decides to have fun
Not following rules, swallowing crews
Son I toss cats off the stage, often I slay their soft raps
To all you fake dictionary emcees, get off that
Half of y'all don't understand your own rhymes and soft batch(?)
They straight at open mics, we put them out on the street
Take away their dope beat, let 'em rhyme and they weak
And the mic can be a decieving device
Muffle your rhymes so they ain't clear and concise
Have niggas thinking you nice
With battle I'll crack all your gear and all your wack raps
You can't be saved by your babbling or your backpack
Doing it for the love is great but you fake
And putting your shít out is a mistake nobody wants to make

[Chorus]

[Verse 2]
Hate when I go to open mics and I see everybody clapping
For some clown they don't understand
Yet everybody acting like he dope because they believe he's
hip-hop
Y'all convincing me that most of y'all are brainwashed
Dug in old hip-hop history
Some cats are crap without their tracks 'cause they weak
I wish a nigga would say he listen to me for the beats
Some got the nerve to say they dope when they spit
When even they family got a tape and they won't open the shít
I got a big mouth and I ain't scared to use it
One person's keystyle allows everyone to abuse it
So what the f**k is your definition of underground?
Depressing beats and bleak cats who love the sound
Well I ain't part of that, I'm tired of rapper's garbage
I'm the part of the underground who only feels the raw shít
And I can take a nigga out regardless
You can bring your hardest artists and I'll make 'em heartless
Some say they lyrically this, or lyrically that
Throwing lyrical in every rap and they lyrically wack
And many cats rhyme over tracks nobody fiends for
Don't f**k around with me, if you can only f**k with keyboards
Just 'cause lazy niggas use recognisable material
Don't mean the dope samples are not original
'Cause a producer with skill can lace tracks
Keyboard beats aren't that original, lets face facts
That shít was overused in the G-funk era
Don't give me that excuse, real emcees want better
You rhyme over enough shít, most get away with murder
Like kids who think they words rhyme 'cause of the suffix
Must bitch niggas be fragile with facts
You bragging 'bout who you battled, but who you battled was crap
What you angry for, and acting all tense
If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense"

RJD2 - FHH


The problem is that you use a different set of standards to evaluate who is the top rapper, i would say skills whereas you say sales

Orizio

BolBill wrote:

Have Straight Outta Compton - still like it

Says it all really(I despise that album with every bone in my body).You sound like me a few years ago,a cynical rockhead with common but completely inaccurate pre-conceptions of Hip-Hop.Don't worry about it-listen to Nas' Illmatic,Blackstar's Blackstar and artists that can actually rap and all will be revealed.

Orizio

spacecoyote wrote:

gotta love that signature Orizio, pure genius:D

and whereas i do agree with the sentiments expressed by Bolbill, it is a touch extreme.

I thought you'd like it.

TBH,I'm getting more and more disillusioned with rap,turning more and more to instrumental and electronica stuff.I mean there was what,5 possibly classic albums this year?Less the year before.Compared to the late and mid 90's rap today is,by and large,trash.

scuba steve

spacecoyote wrote:

http://www.fhm.com/site/bigeye/link.asp?http://realgangsta.de/14190.html

they have got way too much time on their hands

Makaveli

ubu wrote:

"
While most motherf**kers follow the guidelines and hit by 101"

Isn't it "follow the guidelines of Hip-Hop 101"
As in the introductory class to Hip-Hop?

BolBill

Orizio wrote:

I thought you'd like it.

TBH,I'm getting more and more disillusioned with rap,turning more and more to instrumental and electronica stuff.I mean there was what,5 possibly classic albums this year?Less the year before.Compared to the late and mid 90's rap today is,by and large,trash.

(C)rap more like.

Orizio

BolBill wrote:

(C)rap more like.

:rolleyes: Thanks for completely ignoring my other post.What exactly are you doing in this forum?

Tha Gopher

Jesus H Christ, the bitchiness on this forum is worse than at a D4 debs. Ffs, I dont know who is more annoying- people who clog the forum with threads along the lines of "2pac 4eva, Biggie sux" and threads about Eminems private life, or people who continually flog raps dead donkeys, the no selling artist who is cool because his last album sold a grand total of 7 copies in Ireland.

I think it says it all that when I decided to give underground a chance and searched Kazaa for Ugly Duckling, of the millions of users sharing hundreds of millions of files, there were less than a half dozen UD tracks.

With such a ringing endorsement from such a large amount of music listeners I couldnt even be arsed downloading. I dont have broadband, so Im not going to download/buy an album by someone whos name I have never even heard pronounced.

spacecoyote

Tha Gopher wrote:

the no selling artist who is cool because his last album sold a grand total of 7 copies in Ireland.

i'd say some of the best hip-hop albums that come out are lucky to even sell 7 copies in Ireland, that doesn't stop them from being great hip-hop albums!

Tha Gopher wrote:

I think it says it all that when I decided to give underground a chance and searched Kazaa for Ugly Duckling, of the millions of users sharing hundreds of millions of files, there were less than a half dozen UD tracks.

Does that not make sense. a band such as Ugly Duckling, who do rock some nice old school joints and would on the whole be fairly underground i guess would be pretty much a niche group. as a result you wouldn't expect every other person to have Ugly Duckling tracks in their collection. would you not expect underground hip-hop to be rare???

Orizio

Thing is though,if you think the people here support 'unknown' artists simply because they are unkown and want to be cool,then your mistaken.Each to his own-is it impossible for one person to like Cannibal Ox and another to like Mobb Deep?(Answer=No)