To be taken serious as a web designer what must you know??

Eoin

musician wrote:

While true I would recommend someone to just go straight to Asp.net 2.0, download the free Visual Web Developer asp.net dev software on www.asp.net and dig in with the quickstarts on that site. That is if asp.net is your choice. I'm sorry but if someone wants to enter the job market I can't see asp developers being in demand or that learning vbscript would be anything other than detrimental to learning good OOP.

Have you used the free IDE? May have to give that a go at home...

VBScript certainly wouldn't be good for learning OOP, but it sounds like the OP needs an introduction to basic programming constructs, and ASP wouldn't be bad for that IMO.

musician wrote:

Finally I would suggest that AJAX for better or worse will be huge this year and this means it's worth brushing up on javascript and the xmlhttprequest object. As a developer I also spend alot of time with the html and css as designers don't often tend to be great at getting dirty with it. Using dreamweaver they can do alot of what they want and even if they have a knowledge of html and css may not bother too much with it. With web standards and accessability being yet another buzzword I have started skipping the designer and going to www.oswd.org, picking up a free template and developing from there

AJAX looks good alright, but it is something you certainly want to be careful of from a usability point of view. The vast majority of the warnings or "cons" to AJAX seem to be that you can easily make a browser act in an entirely different and unintuitive way that will confuse the user. Especially if you are anything like me and desperately look for some way to introduce it into a site just for the sake of it!

mewso

eoin_s wrote:

AJAX looks good alright, but it is something you certainly want to be careful of from a usability point of view. The vast majority of the warnings or "cons" to AJAX seem to be that you can easily make a browser act in an entirely different and unintuitive way that will confuse the user. Especially if you are anything like me and desperately look for some way to introduce it into a site just for the sake of it!

Yeah as I said for better or worse. I've been reading a good book on AJAX and its very complicated if you want to do a proper job on it and the very first thing that struck me was this is going to be so abused to be silly. I have dabbled in it and it can be implemented easily enough but badly. It will be interesting to see where it goes. Anway from a job point of view I just know idiot employers will stick it into their ads because its a buzz word.

rsynnott

eoin_s wrote:

VBScript certainly wouldn't be good for learning OOP, but it sounds like the OP needs an introduction to basic programming constructs, and ASP wouldn't be bad for that IMO.

VBScript destroys brains!

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1503/ddj0001vs/jan00.htm

Eoin

rsynnott wrote:

VBScript destroys brains!

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1503/ddj0001vs/jan00.htm

Sorry, I was referring to ASP specifically rather than VBScript for applications or whatever. Though I am sure that most of the article also applies. I still don't think it is the tool of Satan you say it is though.

bpmurray

What an eclectic mix of subjects from one post! Anyway, my contribution is:

1. When I want a web designer that's exactly what I get: I don't care if they can't even use a computer (although that limits E-mail communications). In other words, they should understand web behaviours, but there's absolutely no requirement to know HTML/PHP/insert-your-acronym-here. On the other hand, I'd expect a web site design that understands how to attract the visitor, and how to make them come back again; the site should be easy to use, intuitive and responsive. The designer must talk to the developer(s).
2. A web developer should know HTML and XHTML and understand the differences to the finest details. This includes ALL aspects of DHTML: JavaScript (NOT VBScript - that limits the target to IE), CSS, and the markup itself. (S)he should understand how to work around cross-browser issues. A point everyone seems to have overlooked is the requirement that the site be accessible: the US ADA requirements mean that they can sue your customer's arse if you don't do this right!
3. Current trends depend on what area you're focusing on. For example, very few of the big companies use Microsoft for internet sites (a few use them for intranet sites), so J2EE is very important. And, of course, the latest over-hyped AJAX (prototype, Script.acul.us, DojoToolkit). For small companies, ASP & ASP.NET are good - download the freebie VS.Express versions to learn that stuff, but you'll need to upgrade to do anything realistic. LAMP is important too (Linux, Apache, MySql and the P's - PHP, Perl, Python, etc.).

BTW, a comment on AJAX: be very careful - while it can give you a nice slick experience, it really is nasty when overused. The extra server requests kill slow connections. It is also unbelievably insecure: took me all of 10 minutes to write a pretty much undetectable keystroke logger.

ButtermilkJack

eoin_s wrote:

Seamus' post is bang on; it is a distinction that not many people make, but it is a valid one.

Agreed. He made the point very well!

eoin_s wrote:

Do you have any design background? Learning how to design is not easy. You can certainly learn the mechanics of the applications you will use, but unless you have a good eye for design, it is hard to learn good design, if you know what I mean.

Again, very well said. Some people are just born with a creative mind. They know what looks good and what doesn't. And then there are the others, who think their MS Word webpage is a piece of art. Personally, I think you have to be the right type of person in the first place. You can't learn design. You can only develop and tune what you already have. Think of fine artists. It's a similar situation. You can't just wake up one day and say, "I think I'm going to be fine artist." You have to have a talent at the outset.

py2006

I am still a little confused about the whole ASP and ASP.net thing!
Should you have a knowledge of ASP before touching ASP.NET or can you start straight into ASP.net.

rsynnott

py2006 wrote:

I am still a little confused about the whole ASP and ASP.net thing!
Should you have a knowledge of ASP before touching ASP.NET or can you start straight into ASP.net.

You can, and should, start straight into ASP.NET

muckwarrior

py2006 wrote:

I am still a little confused about the whole ASP and ASP.net thing!
Should you have a knowledge of ASP before touching ASP.NET or can you start straight into ASP.net.

The only real similarity between ASP and ASP.NET is the name! ASP.NET is a revolution as opposed to an evolution, i.e. it's a totally new technology built from the ground up. ASP actually would have a lot more in common with PHP or JSP than ASP.NET, so not only is there no need to know ASP first but it would probably actually be easier learning .NET if you didn't learn ASP first.

py2006

muckwarrior wrote:

The only real similarity between ASP and ASP.NET is the name! ASP.NET is a revolution as opposed to an evolution, i.e. it's a totally new technology built from the ground up. ASP actually would have a lot more in common with PHP or JSP than ASP.NET, so not only is there no need to know ASP first but it would probably actually be easier learning .NET if you didn't learn ASP first.

Ah I see, its all coming clearer now! So as a wannabe web developer should I be heading in the direction of ASP.NET rather than PHP?

Seth Brundle

or both.
I think what most are saying is that ASP is on its way out and you are possibly better off learning ASP.net which is currently in demand or PHP which will be in demand for a long time.
You are better off knowing both but to get a job quickly ASP.net may be better

The Corinthian

kbannon wrote:

PHP which will be in demand for a long time.

Famous last words.