Wednesday Games

segadreamcast

cregser wrote:

I'm sorry, did you watch the match? Did you know Morientes set him up?

In all fairness, I didn't. But to score one goal. Against Birmingham. When the stats show you dominated the match. Not to mention every other game I've watched this season. And you're gonna say that we have a fine frontline?

cregser

Ah no, I agree somewhat. We have 2 has-beens and 2 wanna-be's. Loadsa potential but no clout.

Tusky

Liverpool need Michael Owen. Ive said it all along

segadreamcast

cregser wrote:

Ah no, I agree somewhat. We have 2 has-beens and 2 wanna-be's. Loadsa potential but no clout.

I'd agree. Tons of potential. Clearly Benitez has confidence in this motley crew that he has...Cisse, Crouch, Fowler, Morientes... they're an odd bunch alright.


Forget Owen Tusky, bring back Rush !

RE*AC*TOR

i thought that was one of morientes' better games for 'pool tbh

Davei141

On the brightside, all our rivals lost.

cregser

Tusky wrote:

Liverpool need Michael Owen. Ive said it all along

Benitez has shown time and again he only wants players that wanna play for Liverpool and are going at a reasonable price. Despite being desperate for a right-sided player, the Victor deal fell apart AFAIK over wage demands. And the Simao deal fell apart last summer over transfer demands.

AFAIK, the Owen deal fell apart because it was relying on Owen to demand that Real sell him back to 'Pool. Owen made no (publicised) attempt and Real went with the money - and so did Owen. It takes 2 to tango and Owen left it up to Liverpool to bring him back.

Shred

I dunno reactor, I lost count of the amount of times Morientes was dispossessed after Liverpool had some great build up play. He seemed to be better in the second half but I don't think he had a particularly good game tbh.

Rikand

woot, blackburn up to joint 6th now, only 4 points away from Champions League positions!

mayordenis

i cant fault liverpool,
even the attacking players they really gave it a lash if ya think about it it's such a quick decision when you take a shot and on several occasions we hit the woodwork or were inches wide,
it was unlucky our bad luck was really shown my the own goal but did anyone notice alonso's efforts afterwards? again very unlucky

eyerer

Tusky wrote:

When I saw Fowler score an overhead kick I went mental

yeah, i yelled only to realise it was offside like 2 seconds later. woulda been an awesome return.
defense is nowhere near as solid as it was a while back. conceded in the last 3 games and also the 3 against luton

still, chelsea up next, during their supposed dip in form

Thanx 4 The Fish

I was nearly over the barrier from the top of thr anny road end onto the fans below me. He took it well shame it was offside. I heva no idea what Alonso was doing for the goal, the ball was going wide and you can clearly see Reina calling from some angles.

Was good fun anyway, got some clips of when they announced fowler on the teamsheet and when he came on. Must admit got the tingles on both occasions. Anyway, dropped two points by trying to protect players for Chelsea, prob not Rafas finest hour however if we get three points outta chelsea then he will be proven right

PHB

What a ****ed up day,
Chelsea draw, United Lose, Arsenal Lose, Liverpool draw.
The odds on that today earlier would have been immense.
Typical Chelsea, the times they drop points, nobody else gains points.

The Rooster

cregser wrote:

AFAIK, the Owen deal fell apart because it was relying on Owen to demand that Real sell him back to 'Pool. Owen made no (publicised) attempt and Real went with the money - and so did Owen. It takes 2 to tango and Owen left it up to Liverpool to bring him back.

Owen clearly did want to go to Liverpool, but Liverpool were not going to bid close to what Madrid wanted. Newcastle did make the bid. Madrid told Owen they would not accept Liverpool's offer even if he did turn down Newcastle. Owen had to weigh up whether that was a bluff or not. In the meantime Newcastle offered him a big increase in salary and guaranteed first team place, and had Souness and Shearer (two people Owen has huge respect for) constantly telling him how great Newcastle is. On top of all that, it is World Cup year and at the time there were plenty in the media saying Rooney and Defoe would be great, so I'm sure Owen felt he couldnt take the gamble of being left on the Real Madrid bench all season.

The Rooster

KdjaC wrote:

I got Fowler @ 8-1 to score the 1st goal, crap really he didnt even start.

You know you get your money back if the first goal is scored before your player comes on (classed as a non-runner)? So as Gerrard scored before Fowler appeared, you are entitled to a refund of your stake.

SCULLY

PHB wrote:

What a ****ed up day,
Chelsea draw, United Lose, Arsenal Lose, Liverpool draw.
The odds on that today earlier would have been immense.
Typical Chelsea, the times they drop points, nobody else gains points.

More like typical of the rest of the league (not chelseas fault if their rivals don't capitalise on a slip in performance).

very poor result for Liverpool - could have cut down the gap to 10 (persuming they can win thier games in hand) and I think that Liverpool could get a good result on Sunday. Would be interesting to see how Chelsea would cope with sustained pressure over the run in but at this stage they won't be caught. Don't fancy the Barcelona games at all though!!

Lemlin

What an unbelievable round of games. Blackburn are eighth in the league and no team above them won We're not 4 points off Champions League qualification with a game in hand. Hughes has pulled off a huge renaissance.

Was disappointed to see these omments from SAF this morning:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=185463&cc=5739

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson accused Rovers of playing a poor brand of football in which 'they foul all the time' and slammed referee Phil Dowd's decision to send off Ferdinand.

Ferguson said: 'Rio did it twice in two minutes while their centre-back Andy Todd committed about 10 fouls in the first half and was not punished.'

On the incident which left Savage on a stretcher, Ferguson added: 'Rio says he hasn't touched him so I will just have to see the video.'

Ferguson added: 'Tonight we didn't get what we deserved. They (Blackburn) didn't really play any football at all in the first half and they were just surviving yet they were 3-1 up.

'We equalised, then there was a schoolboy error at the back between Rio and Van der Sar and the penalty was harsh... the ball was just going straight to van der Sar and it was a soft penalty from the linesman.'

I think its sour grapes. Blackburn only had 23 fouls in the game, 6 more than United. They also only had 3 yellow cards, United had 3 and a red. To me his team has lost so he's going down the common road of labelling Blackburn 'Blackeye Rovers'.

Fact is, IMO, it was a fair result. Blackburn took their chances and could have scored more. If anything, United were lucky with their third goal (taking a few deflections before it got to RVN) and Saha was a country mile offside for the first. That said, Blackburn were lucky with their second but Todd did repay the defensive error for United's third.

The penalty was debatable but what the hell was Wes Brown doing running around with his hands behind his back? It looked as if he deliberately blocked the cross and, from what I remember, there were two Blackburn players in the box to United's one defender. In the end anyway, it was only justice after Saha's offside goal.

I heard Queiroz say on MOTD that Ferdinand's sending off was one of two changing points in the game. How does having your defensive midfielder sent off in the 88th minute of the game, when you're losing, change the game? Ferdinand deserved to go, even if just for pure stupidity. MGP was getting up form the first tackle without a fuss and then he needlessly pushes him. Then he follows that up by thundering into MGP and Savage two minutes later with his leg up, and the tempestuous push still in the referee's mind.

I was impressed with Bentley. Not many Blackburn fans were sure he deserved a contract but hopefully he can build on last night. He's not a striker (even with last night's showing) but he could make the right wing his own, allowing Steven Reid to move into central midfield, where he's more effective, and replace the ageing Tugay.

All in all, I'm thrilled, as is any Rovers supporter. Who'd have thought at the start of the season that we'd be 4 points off CL qualification, with a game in hand, at this stage of the season. Ewood looks like the fortress it once was back in the good days, and we have the visits of every team above us in the table, bar Tottenham, to look forward to. Hopefully we'll make their visit just as nice as we did United's.

We've a trip to West Brom on Saturday now. They've taken a few good scalps so it should be a tricky tie.

therecklessone

Great night of results for Spurs, Bolton drew and Arsenal lost, with Judas flouncing off at half-time and a Spurs cast off delivering the coup de grâce.

The Rooster

I hate Luis Garcia :mad: . He ended more Liverpool attacks than any Birmingham player last night. Not to mention missing an absolute sitter.

Green_Martian

Lemlin wrote:

Fact is, IMO, it was a fair result. Blackburn took their chances and could have scored more. If anything, United were lucky with their third goal (taking a few deflections before it got to RVN) and Saha was a country mile offside for the first. That said, Blackburn were lucky with their second but Todd did repay the defensive error for United's third.

How was the 3rd goal lucky, i did not see any deflections, from what i could see Evra passed the ball to Brown and brown knocked it into the path of RVN, to which he took preety well IMO.

Im not been sour in the defeat but from what i could see a draw should have been the outcome, but as you stated Blackburn could have scored 1 or 2 more, but that happened as Utd were pushing forward for the equlaiser.

PHB

I just watche dthe game there, that is the worst defensive preformance I've ever seen United give, it was just woeful.
Rio isn't cut out to be a DMC, he could handle it against Wolves, but ultimately hes not up there, which is fine, hes a great CB.
Rooney had a poor game, while Ronaldo had quite a good game. Annoyed to see RIchardson start ahead of Park, but pfft.

Saha's goal was a clear offside.
The third goal was in no way lucky.
Wes Brown is an idiot for giving that peno, but it was a peno.
Blackburn fouled 23 times, which is nuts. Utd fouled 16 times, wh ich is also nuts.
The second yellow card was farcial, there is no way both of them deserved yellow cards. As for it being a turning point, there was 2 minutes + 6(which
shoulda be 20) left, so it did mean United weren't gona get the draw.

It was just bad refferring overall, and whichever side lost, they woulda complained about it

United shoulda got the equaliser after th3 rd goal, very poor that they didn't.

redspider

Liverpool 1-1 Birmingham
Gerrard 62 - Alonso og 88

Well, well, what an incident-packed night of football on all fronts last night. There are many talking points, not only from the Liverpool game, but also the Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal games. Its rare for these 4 teams to drop points and rarer for them all to drop points on the same day/night!

Liverpool played 4-4-2 and gave Agger a run-out. The dropping of Carragher and Alonso to the bench was a signal from Rafa that this was one of Liverpool's easiest games of the season, and no doubt a certain Chelsea game as on his mind too. The line-out was:

Reina
Finnan, Hyypia, Agger, Riise
Luis Garcia, Gerrard, Hamann, Kewell
Crouch, Morientes

subs: Fowler for Crouch (63 mins)
Alonso for Gerrard (72 mins)

Leaving out two of your better players, for a rest, is never an easy decision, and taking off one at 1-0 in the shape of Gerrard, also must wrankle in the mind of Benitez this morning as this game was clearly two points dropped.

Like many games this season, Liverpool dominated. Gerrard went very close early on, and Liverpool were creating most of the chances. The sending off, perhaps a bit harsh but definitely a yellow came early at at that stage Liverpool should have went on to win. However, they were up against an inspired Birmingham who kept their heads defensively and who's keeper was in sparkling form. Eventually a goal came on 62 mins. Before that, Crouch had come close, a left foot cross in by Finnan. The goal was lucky but no more than Liverpool deserved, as Gerrard's shot from about 8 yards was deflected past the keeper and another defender.

Benitez may have hoped at this stage that the game would have ran its course. Liverpool creating chances, and maybe scoring and Birmingham reduced to the very rare foray. Gerrard was taken off to rest. Fowler was on. But then, a disaster! A knock-down header from Heskey was covered by Alonso but slight panic from him and his chest pass sneaked past a moving Reina. So unlucky for Alonso who should have just hooved it. I would blame Alonso 80% and Reina 20%. But either way, it was 88 mins gone and the score was 1-1.

It was amazing to see the efforts put in by Liverpool in the remaining minutes. It was a really good effort. Alonso went very close with a lashed free kick as he tried to make amends. He blamed himself wholly for the og which is good to see in a player. He didnt argue with Reina at all. Then Hamann hit the woodwork. Another chance, Fowler was clearly offside but he finished it brilliantly in overhead style. Time ran out and it was a draw.

Entertaining perhaps, but clearly two points dropped and easy ones at that.

Agger - did ok, not as good as Carra of course, perhaps a better left back option than Warnock. Had one dodgy moment with a poor clearance.

Kewell - did ok, a reasonable option for the left side, tries to link up and holds posession better than Garcia, although doesnt get in and around the box as dangerously as he might do. Should get rid of that hair-cut though.

Gerrard - immense as always and was close to scoring a couple of times

Morientes/Crouch/Fowler - I didnt read through all the posts above, but my judgement on Morientes is that he is just not good enough. Its hard to comparatively rate Crouch, Cisse and Morientes as all 3 players are so different in style. None of them are up to the standard that we should be aiming for in my opinion, and neither is the current Robbie. Its a problem that wont go away and many of us have seen it coming. The lack of scoring chancs stung us again last night. In a game against 10-men, who had only 3 shots on target all night against Liverpool's 24, it should have been Liverpool that should have been 2 or 3 up. The woodwork was tested a few times and Taylor was excellent in goals, but even so, this game should have been won.

mayordenis wrote:

i cant fault liverpool,
even the attacking players they really gave it a lash
it was unlucky our bad luck was really shown my the own goal but did anyone notice alonso's efforts afterwards? again very unlucky

Yes, I sure did notice Alonso'sefforts. Isnt it amazing how an og can motivate a player so much? Grit and determination are a very important aspect of all sport. Liverpool need to show that from the start of games and go all out for a win from the start of a match. When its 2-0 up, then play like they normally do, and hope that the goals go in.

redspider

ps: Man U were unlucky in their match to a certain degree, they had most of the chances and a couple of goals from Blackburn were lucky (eg: courtesy of Rio F and v d Saar). Saha was miles offside for his goal. Bentley finished one chance very well. The Man U defence was poor at times. Brown, clearly intentional hand-ball, what was he thinking? Ferdinand is not a CM, why wont Ferguson buy a CM for Man U instead of trying to convert players that play in other positions.

Chelsea were also unlucky but Villa kept plugging away. Robben was looking very lively. Crespo wasnt taking up good positions however.

However, Arsenal deserved to be beaten taking into account that a couple of the goals were down to Campbell's lack of application. I was impressed with Pires though, he tried as did Van Persie. Henry was Henry. But there are two many players that are just not up to the grade for Arsenal these days, Ljungberg and Gilberto (although I thought he played better than usual) and they badly miss Cole, Lauren, Viera and a good Campbell. At this rate, Arsenal will find it a tough battle for 4th, although they will be clearly helped by a stuttering Spurs and Wigan

The Muppet

Lemlin wrote:

What an unbelievable round of games. Blackburn are eighth in the league and no team above them won We're not 4 points off Champions League qualification with a game in hand. Hughes has pulled off a huge renaissance.

...................

I thouth Ferdinands sending off was very harsh , 50/50 ball,savage came out the worst but i dont think there was any malice the challenge. I think Brown knew well what he was doing for the penno and I though it was a fair decision. Ferdinands assist for Blackburns second was an indication of the poor communication between defence and keeper which was evident through out the match and was not surprising considering United played both Evra and Vidic .

Fair dues to Blackburn they battled well and deserved their 3 points.

Pluses from a United point of view was the way they faught back at Blackburn when they were 3 goals down. That showed spirit which had been lacking earlier on in the season. Our rivals for second did not capitalise as much as they could have on uniteds slip up.

PHB

In relation to the Liverpool game, Liverpool were very unlucky to draw, but considering the amount of chances they had up front, its not at all suprising that a goal could be nicked.

Liverpool now go into their run of hell:

Chelsea A
Charlton A
Wigan A
Arsenal H
Man Utd H(FA CUP)
Benfica A(CL)
City H
Charlton H
Benfica H (CL)
Arsenal A
Newcaslte A
Everton H

THen an easy run of games towards the end of the season.

If they can get 17 points out of this run, they have a good chance at second.
If they can get 12, they will get 4th probably.
If they get above 17, they could take second.

This run will decide what position they end up on.

BKtje

Thought Blackburn just about deserved to win thanks to the comical defending from the men wearing red. Delighted to see Man u at least battle back.
Personally the first rio booking was harsh. Second was a definite yellow....savage shoulda gotten one too tho as both their legs were that high.

Some great games to watch last night tho but theres been so many red cards in the last few premiership weeks.

Lemlin

Originally posted by GKelly2002
How was the 3rd goal lucky, i did not see any deflections, from what i could see Evra passed the ball to Brown and brown knocked it into the path of RVN, to which he took preety well IMO.

Im not been sour in the defeat but from what i could see a draw should have been the outcome, but as you stated Blackburn could have scored 1 or 2 more, but that happened as Utd were pushing forward for the equlaiser.

He took it well but I think the ball deflected off Brown more than he passed it.

Originally posted by PHB
Blackburn fouled 23 times, which is nuts. Utd fouled 16 times, wh ich is also nuts.
The second yellow card was farcial, there is no way both of them deserved yellow cards. As for it being a turning point, there was 2 minutes + 6(which
shoulda be 20) left, so it did mean United weren't gona get the draw.

6 minutes and 20 seconds and United had just gone 20 without scoring, and didn't look like scoring again. To say the sending off changed the game at that late stage is farcical.

As for thr fouls, its not that nuts considering the two teams have played each other 3 times in four weeks. There are bound to be tensions eg. Ferdinand bundling over MGP.

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
Thought Blackburn just about deserved to win thanks to the comical defending from the men wearing red. Delighted to see Man u at least battle back.
Personally the first rio booking was harsh. Second was a definite yellow....savage shoulda gotten one too tho as both their legs were that high.

Some great games to watch last night tho but theres been so many red cards in the last few premiership weeks.

The first was the card that was definitely deserved. You can't push another player over right in front of the ref.

MrJoeSoap

I'm a neutral and thought both yellow cards were deserved.

Rikand

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I'm a neutral and thought both yellow cards were deserved.

Im a blackburn fan and whatever about the second one, the first was definately deserved, you just cant push players over like that right in front of the ref.

The second card was half and half to me, but i guess the high boot just edged it for a red, i thought the red was a little harsh, but there ya go. if it had been a longer time after the first yellow, i doubt he would have picked up the second yellow

Lemlin

Rickylovesuall wrote:

Im a blackburn fan and whatever about the second one, the first was definately deserved, you just cant push players over like that right in front of the ref.

The second card was half and half to me, but i guess the high boot just edged it for a red, i thought the red was a little harsh, but there ya go. if it had been a longer time after the first yellow, i doubt he would have picked up the second yellow

As I've pointed out above, and was pointed out on MOTD last night, it didn't help that the second tackle was only a minute after the first.

If you've just been booked, you can't go around with your legs flying. Ferdinand had already shown his annoyance by pushing MGP, perhaps the ref thought it was better that he leave the pitch than stay on and risk injuring another player, like he did Savage.

The Rooster

I thought Rio deserved both yellows. Both of them were pure stupid though. You'd wonder if the guy had a brain at all. And whether VdS called or not, his header was totally ridiculous.

VdS has been excellent for United overall, but he has had a few dodgy games. I thought he was very bad for the first goal - bad decision not to tip the first shot wide rather than parry it out.

Not sure what Brown was thinking for the handball - Vidic also did something really stupid towards the end, heading the ball when he was practically kneeling down - so it was brain fade all round in the United defence. I thought Brown did really well for RvN's second, great touch, and I believe he meant it. Ronaldo looked to play quite well judging by the highlights. Evra's looking like a good player too.

Overall it was a poor performance by United - worse than either Liverpool or Arsenal who dominated their games but couldnt score enough - but they only dropped a point on Liverpool so no big loss. Team selection will be very interesting for the weekend, at this stage I reckon Fergie hasnt got a clue what team he'll put out.

Finally, well done to Blackburn. The way for the rest of the PL to beat the top 4 is to get stuck in AND attack. Its pure embarrasing for the Engliah game when you hear a manager from one of the top 4 complaining that they're opponents were too tough.

Lemlin

Fergie just had a press conference where he said that Hughes is going to have to learn to stop contesting referee decisions so much and said that he thinks he "could be a good manager".

They also asked him about John Obi Mikel and he said that he thinks he believes Mikel wants to be a United player, and would love to see him in a red jersey.

mike65

Methinks Fergie could learn something from Sparky....

Mike.