New Metallica Material?

senordingdong

Ok, so that proves that Metallica do listen to the masses, and hopefully, this will encourage them not to take the nu-metal route again.

Though I'd be more concerned with them going emo now more than anything.

Megatron

Just read the thread there.

Some interesting points , some truth's ( well imo ) and some good auld bashing each other down .


I've been a Metallica fan sinc RTL , and i have to admit i've enjoyed each and every album , i'm not that keen on St.Anger tbh , but it was something different from the usual stuff they do, and one of my fav albums is where they went a bit metal ( and well it was more for the money in the end really) the S&M album , i think i like that album more because it's a live album , and it makes the hairs on the back of my neck/arms/legs stand on end.

Yes James/Lars and Co. changed directions with the Black Album , and Load , reload and all the rest, but i'd prefer that then sticking ina Rut ( as a few people have Echo'd already), yes they will get it very very wrong ( St.anger ) but it's best to view it as them trying something new.

Remember they are people as well , they have infulences as they have always done, they still listen to thier revials , and new sourses of Music and mix and match. Some of it works , some doesn't.

What would i like to see as thier next album ?

Not too sure tbh , as with most of the albums i've just bought it and enjoyed the ride ( the lightning :P ) I've got a few fav tracks , some from the older stuff and yet others from the more recent stuff ( funny how load is considered recent even though it's 9 years old , and lets not forget the black album) like Outlaw Thorn , Mama said , Ain't my Bitch , The Prince, Cure ... loads that i love , none that hate ( most i can up with).

All in all my message is,

CHill , and we will all go see them live anway

Dae Han

Metallica are here in June BTW, June 11th RDS. Should be a cracker!

Megatron

Dae Han wrote:

Metallica are here in June BTW, June 11th RDS. Should be a cracker!

THey playing on the 12th as well ?

Adam

Megatron wrote:

THey playing on the 12th as well ?

How do ya figure???

mickymg2003

Doctor J wrote:

No, you didn't get it. I wasn't suggesting that Metallica turned to **** because they were going somewhere different with their music, I was using the example to illustrate how they were going somewhere different with their music. It was a conscious policy, a specific agenda with their songwriting which was not artistically motivated or inspired. It was a result of analysing what was out there and doing the same thing. For a band of their illustrious pedigree, it was a truly heartbreaking thing to see.

That isn't art, that's a business plan. They weren't considering what was right for the individual pieces of music, instead they were altering their music to fit in with the trends of the time.

I'd have to say that thats not the impression i got from watchin some kind of monster. It looks like the music changed because the way they write the music changed and the band dynamic changed with kirk getting more involved and jason leaving. Maybe it was a business decision but thats not the impression i got but i could be wrong.

December Son

scouser.tommy wrote:

Yeah wise men learn from their mistakes, but not from their fans' criticisms. Metallica produced more than a few goddamn amazing albums by sticking to their guns and having faith in their own personal sense of what sounds good. 99% of Metallica's fans couldn't write a decent song to save their lives. Where would Metallica be if they just pandered to their ungrateful audience and produced whatever they theought the "fans" wanted to hear? Then they would cease to really be a band.

Metallica's artistic integrity remains entirely intact, IMO. St Anger may be my least favourite Metallica album, but that album proves that Metallica write what they write for themselves and not for their 'fans'. Hell, they've been proving that since Load. So just get used to the idea that they don't f*cking care what kind of music you think they should write.

Oh lord.
I'm sorry Tommy. I'm sorry your favourite band are a sell out, corporate merchandising, money making franchise at this stage and you just cant admit it.
Artistic integrity?? Metallica have been all about the $ since the black album. It stopped being about the music a LONG time ago.
If they were really proud of thier new material, you think they would still play live sets of material from 20 years ago? Look at slayer. Thier new stuff is good, if not amazing, compared to reign in blood et al, but at thier last show here a good portion of the gig was material off god hates us all, they even opened the show with the title track from GHUA. Now imagine Metallica opening a gig in the RDS with 'invisible kid' or 'mama said'. The place would be empty after 5 minutes.
Why?
Because all thier new material is terrible, toadying to current musical trends. the 'load' era was pandering to stripped down grunge style rock, ST. Anger toadied to Nu - metal. The reason? $. Plain and simple.
"What are the kids listening to nowadays Lars?"
"Nu metal, James. We should do that, i need a new yacht"
"Okay here ill just take a sh!t on my guitar for 50 minutes and well call it St. Anger, k?"
"Fine let me know when its done, ill be in Hawaii"
Its sad, because thier old material is a work of genius. But the only way you'll see good new material from metallica would involve some sort of voodoo ritual to raise cliff burton from the grave. You'll get new material all right, just dont expect it to be anything better than 'piss poor'.

pbsuxok1znja4r

December Son wrote:

Oh lord.
I'm sorry Tommy. I'm sorry your favourite band are a sell out, corporate merchandising, money making franchise at this stage and you just cant admit it.
Artistic integrity?? Metallica have been all about the $ since the black album. It stopped being about the music a LONG time ago.
If they were really proud of thier new material, you think they would still play live sets of material from 20 years ago? Look at slayer. Thier new stuff is good, if not amazing, compared to reign in blood et al, but at thier last show here a good portion of the gig was material off god hates us all, they even opened the show with the title track from GHUA. Now imagine Metallica opening a gig in the RDS with 'invisible kid' or 'mama said'. The place would be empty after 5 minutes.
Why?
Because all thier new material is terrible, toadying to current musical trends. the 'load' era was pandering to stripped down grunge style rock, ST. Anger toadied to Nu - metal. The reason? $. Plain and simple.
"What are the kids listening to nowadays Lars?"
"Nu metal, James. We should do that, i need a new yacht"
"Okay here ill just take a sh!t on my guitar for 50 minutes and well call it St. Anger, k?"
"Fine let me know when its done, ill be in Hawaii"
Its sad, because thier old material is a work of genius. But the only way you'll see good new material from metallica would involve some sort of voodoo ritual to raise cliff burton from the grave. You'll get new material all right, just dont expect it to be anything better than 'piss poor'.

Heh, Metallica aren't exactly my favourite band, you know. Personally I don't care too much whether they've sold out or not, I just happen to think that the truth is that they haven't.

Ahhh, yet another Cliff Burton fanboy. Goodluck with that Voodoo ritual mate, lemme know how it works out. Personally I'd prefer Newsted.

Haha and just so you know, I loved Load and Reload. Both superb albums, regardless of 'why' Metallica adopted that style. The Outlaw Torn, for example, happens to be one of my favourite songs by Metallica, and we can thank Newsted for much of that one. :cool:

dimerocks

hey if the kids whose first album was load maybe they could take until it sleeps out of it. i think it is the best song they have written since anything of and justice.

Adam

I object to being called a kid!

To be honest, Until It Sleeps is one of my least favourite tracks on Load, I'm with scouser.tommy on The Outlaw Torn as one of my favourite songs!

As for December Son, what are you on about?! First off, when I go to see Metallica this summer, and they opened with Invisible Kid or Mama Said i'd be walkin nowhere boyo! Because they would be jumping on a very different approach to the gig that bands rarely take! Sets are usually very predictable, regardless of who you are seeing!

As for your little Slayer tangent, I suppose the fact that Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax etc. etc. were all playing thrash metal in the Bay Area back in the day because it was UNpopular?! No.

Are you aware that Pantera were a glam rock covers band before they made it big? You think they should have continued doing that, or rolled with the musical times like every band does! I beg of you, whip out Show No Mercy and have a good listen, then slap on God Hates Us All (both great albums btw) and then tell me that Slayer haven't changed drastically!

All bands evolve, its just that for some reason people out there who know nothing and are bitter about something like to stick it to the tallica boyz to try and aggravate the many millions of fans... :rolleyes:

dimerocks

and by covers band you mean originals i assume. oantera weren't part of the bay area scene either.

Adam

Oops, ok so one slip not bad for a lengthy post! Replace them with Anthrax, or Megadeth if you like, point still comes across, thrash was THE scene in that era.

As for the covers, you stand corrected on that one my friend! Pantera began playing together in the 11th grade, covering glam bands like KISS.

December Son

fade_to_grey wrote:

I object to being called a kid!
As for that twonk December Son, what are you on about?! First off, when I go to see Metallica this summer, and they opened with Invisible Kid or Mama Said i'd be walkin nowhere boyo! Because they would be jumping on a very different approach to the gig that bands rarely take! Sets are usually very predictable, regardless of who you are seeing!

As for your little Slayer tangent, I suppose the fact that Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax etc. etc. were all playing thrash metal in the Bay Area back in the day because it was UNpopular?! No.

Are you aware that Pantera were a glam rock covers band before they made it big? You think they should have continued doing that, or rolled with the musical times like every band does! I beg of you, whip out Show No Mercy and have a good listen, then slap on God Hates Us All (both great albums btw) and then tell me that Slayer haven't changed drastically!

All bands evolve, its just that for some reason people out there who know nothing and are bitter about something like to stick it to the tallica boyz to try and aggravate the many millions of fans... :rolleyes:

Stop acting like a kid then and maybe people wont refer to you as one. Twonk??
Anyway, im well aware of pantera being glam metal. Thats not the topic of discussion. Again, i was listening to metallica, and metal in general probably quite literally before you were born, i know what im talking about.

Theres a huge, gaping difference between a band evolving, and a band making a conscious decision to change thier sound based on whats popular at the time. Metallica are a money making corporate cock sucking exercise in pioneering new and innovative ways to suck bollocks and they do it royally.
They sat down with bob rock, decided what would sell records, and made themselves sound like that. If metallica were TRULY evolving as a band, St. Anger and the putrid filth that preceeded it, would have gone in a DIFFERENT direction than whats popular. Sick of making 'chugga chugga' palm muted thrash riffs? Fine! Go and INNOVATE. Dont EMULATE. Which is what metallica have been doing since 1992. Emulating the sound of whats popular. Mid 90's, theyre grungy. 2000's, theyre nu metally. Evolving my f*cking hole. Other bands should by rights be copying metallicas sound, not the other way around. Its a sad state of affairs when someone like slipknot could produce a heavier (and better) album then metallica.

So you can go see them belt out such classics as invisible kid/fuel/i disappear safe in the knowledge youre lining lars pockets and setting them up to make even more disappointing, abhorrent albums. Congratulations.

Adam

December Son wrote:

They sat down with bob rock, decided what would sell records, and made themselves sound like that.

I'm assuming you were in on this conversation, yes?

I doubt it.

If Metallica were in to $ on St. Anger it wouldn't have been St. Anger, it would have been Puppets II or the Black Album II! Because rest assured, if they had simply wanted to jump on the band-wagon of nu metal (which it is really not) to make money, it wouldn't sound anything like it does. Its raw in sound, production, and compsition.

And it DOES NOT appeal to everybody! As is clearly demonstrated by the fact that half the fan base would call it their least favourite album! And while there are many people i know that wouldn't be a particularly big fan but still own a copy of the Black Album, there are none that own a copy of St. Anger! Proving that they went as far from appealing to the masses as possible! How that equates to being driven by money i do not know, but i think its clear that your argument is driven by nothing but speculation and you demeaning opinion.

And whats wrong with slipknot producing a better album? First off, thats a matter of opinion and secondly, why shouldn't they be capable of such? Metallica and Slipknot, all humans alike. None above the others.

dimerocks

anthrax weren't bay area either:)

Adam

Not from there, but as with other bands associated with the Bay Area, its considered the starting point. The same is true for the likes of Testament, Possessed, Exodus, Death Angel etc. etc.

Anthrax played at a Bay Area Reunion known as thrash of the titans after Chuck Billy was diagnosed with cancer.

December Son

fade_to_grey wrote:

Its raw in sound, production, and compsition. .

I...just....but....
Oh dear god. The mind truly boggles. Really and truly.
I cant even discuss this anymore. Suffice to say St. anger, is so overproduced its a shambles. A first year sound technician could do a better job, and might even get the drums to sound like drums and not garbage cans in a washing machine.
And was i there to witness it when they decided to sell out and whore themselves for the almighty $? No. But i was there when multi millionaire lars ulrich announced that if you werent willing to pay $15 for a metallica CD, he didnt want you as a fan. MONEY. HUNGRY. WHORES.

Metallica are past thier sell by date and no longer musically important. My opinion, im entitled to it, and youre entitled to yours. Thats all ive got to say on the subject.

Megatron

fade_to_grey wrote:

How do ya figure???

Well i was more hoping is all .


My B-day is the 12th , guess i'll be back in dublin for the gig either way , Have only missed 1 gig fo thiers in dublin inn 14 years

Megatron

December Son wrote:

But i was there when multi millionaire lars ulrich announced that if you werent willing to pay $15 for a metallica CD, he didnt want you as a fan. MONEY. HUNGRY. WHORES.

No Lars is the Whore ... he does have a big sway with the band ( as him and Jimbo are the founding members) , But 1 man doesn't make a band ( well apart from the Rollins band , but that is just a bad example :P

December Son wrote:

Metallica are past thier sell by date and no longer musically important. My opinion, im entitled to it, and youre entitled to yours. Thats all ive got to say on the subject.

Yes your correct , it is your opinion , 1 i disagree with but hey , that's what part of what makes music fun .

i was gona point out that Avril lasanage ( or however you spell her name) did Fuel for the tribute to metallica ( ego stroking if ever i've seen it) so they can still influnce young minds

dimerocks

anthrax were part of the new york scene sure they played bay area but they were not located there. anyway i get your point i'm just being awkward.

phantom_lord

But i was there when multi millionaire lars ulrich announced that if you werent willing to pay $15 for a metallica CD, he didnt want you as a fan. MONEY. HUNGRY. WHORE.

Hey if I spent a million dollars and a year making an album and someone enjoyed, the least they could do is give me fifteen dollars for it.

The fact is they made a policy on that album to not include guitar solos beacuse guitar solos were not in fashion at the time.

Actually they said later on that they did record solos but when they added them to the songs they didn't feel right.

scouser.tommy wrote:

Ahhh, yet another Cliff Burton fanboy.

Hey i'm one of them.

scouser.tommy wrote:

Haha and just so you know, I loved Load and Reload. Both superb albums, regardless of 'why' Metallica adopted that style. The Outlaw Torn, for example, happens to be one of my favourite songs by Metallica, and we can thank Newsted for much of that one. :cool:

Load would be one of the ablums I listn to most. But eh i wouldn't thank Newstead for his contribution :rolleyes:

Ahhh, yet another Cliff Burton fanboy.
Yeah wise men learn from their mistakes, but not from their fans' criticisms. Metallica produced more than a few goddamn amazing albums by sticking to their guns and having faith in their own personal sense of what sounds good. 99% of Metallica's fans couldn't write a decent song to save their lives. Where would Metallica be if they just pandered to their ungrateful audience and produced whatever they theought the "fans" wanted to hear? Then they would cease to really be a band.

Pretty much from the start Metallica did want they wanted. Hell some fans went crazy over Ride.. because it had a ballad on it. Justice was treated exactly like St Anger was when it came out by alot of people, Drums production etc. Load was completely slated...especially for the photos in it.

For St Anger they went to the studio and recorded what they wanted. If they were so commercial they wouldn't have had any problems doing that radio ad in the film. When they were choosing where to play that summer they played in small towns even if they lost money. They wanted to play to their fans. The tour hadn't money was its first objective.

Metallica haven't been unfaithful to their own vision for their music. That's what counts.

Dam right.

Doctor J

Gentlemen, this thread is going nowhere, just another old Metallica Vs new Metallica fest, and we've had way too many of them in the past. Suffice to say, everybody has their own opinion on Metallica's motives though unless someone brings this thread back on topic soon and tells us something new I'm going to close it because what has been said in this thread has all been said before ad nauseum.

senordingdong

December Son wrote:

And was i there to witness it when they decided to sell out and whore themselves for the almighty $?

I'm with Fade to Grey on this, and did you even read his point?
Metallica knew they were taking a risk releasing St.Anger.

If they wanted to guarante themselves money like you think, they would have released another thrash album. And even then, do you think that people who bought St.Anger were nu-metal fans and bought the album for that reason?
No, they bought it because they like Metallica. It could have been a godamn pop album and it would have soared in sales.
The fact of the matter is, Metallica don't have to change anything about themselves or their music to make a sale. Their cds will always sell, regardless.

Adam

Cheers seniordingdong, I appreciate the support!

@Doctor J

Re your email i've edited my post, and i apologise in full for unnecessarily insulting December Son, no hard feelings dude!

That said, i'm still not with you on this one! The sound they used is not overproduced in the slightest, and the proof of that is on the dvd that accompanied the cd (i think, i may have my reference wrong here) they stated that they wanted to use their live rig sound in the studio, so that when the songs were performed live they would sound closer to the originals. Which is clearly demonstrated by the fact that it does sound the same live! Not my particular choice of guitar tone but the fact still remains!

As for the drums, if you cared to notice, the only thing that sounds vastly different to the norm is the snare, the rest of the kit is the same, the snare is just tighter and rim shots are incorporated to give a sharper sound. Other than that the symbols are the same, the double bass is weighty and appropriate sounding, and the toms don't come in to play too much as the drum beats aren't particularly elaborate.

Anyway, if Doctor J wants to close the thread i wont disagree, this has been argued out countless times before and changes nothing. I feel i've made my points and appreciate the support of others who feel similarly!

senordingdong

One thing I think it is note worthy about their 'new sound' is that there is finally some decent emphasis on the drums, which shows that Lars actually is a good drummer.
Maybe this was done in the place of the solo's.

Mushy

I'm new to this one so dont want to get it shut down. As said, the only difference with drums was the snare. It was tighter which sounded very different. Personally, i dont like it that way. A different sound couldnt bother me. It shows courage to change a sound that people mightnt like.

People are sayin that Load was slated loads, im not sayin it wasnt, but i love that album. If my brother didnt make me listen to Until It Sleeps, id prob be listenin to Snoop right now. Couldnt believe how talented music could be!

About new stuff though, James was sayin there is plenty of new material, bass will be a bit more prominent on the new album, Lars drum playin is better than ever and there will be solo's on it. So all sounds good for it.

pbsuxok1znja4r

phantom_lord wrote:

For St Anger they went to the studio and recorded what they wanted. If they were so commercial they wouldn't have had any problems doing that radio ad in the film. When they were choosing where to play that summer they played in small towns even if they lost money. They wanted to play to their fans. The tour hadn't money as its first objective.

Yeah, that radio advert was something I forgot to mention, actually. Clearly no-one was comfortable with that ****. The only way the guys could try to get through it was by just ripping the piss while doing it. For me, that was further confirmation of how they hated to whore themselves commerically.

Adam

scouser.tommy wrote:

Yeah, that radio advert was something I forgot to mention, actually. Clearly no-one was comfortable with that ****. The only way the guys could try to get through it was by just ripping the piss while doing it. For me, that was further confirmation of how they hated to whore themselves commerically.

And subsequently one of the songs on the album was written about the whole 'you scratch our back we'll scratch yours' thing, so I think that reinforces the fact that they didn't want to do it! Can't remember which song though... :rolleyes:

Whiskeyjack

Doctor J wrote:

I draw your attention to the scene in the documentary where Bob Rock and Lars are telling Kirk that there won't be any guitar solos on the album because they're dated and not in keeping with the trend of the time, which was downtuned riffs and no solos. Correctly, Kirk points out that following the current trend would date the album to that point in time yet folds like piece of paper and does what he's told like a good puppet.

That's not artistic integrity :v:

Good point.Then the alum came out just after downtuned two note riffs and no solos went out of fashion, and consequently the album bombed (and rightly so in my opinion).I think their main problem is overthinking everything they put out and not playing out of pure passion anymore.The said thing is that it seems the reason why is because most of their passion seems to be gone.

Whiskeyjack

sean_keevey wrote:

St. Anger was one of the most digustingly created albums in history as far as true musicianship is concerened.
It was ridiculously overproduced to make it sound underproduced.

Very good point.

sean_keevey wrote:

The music tracks were first written and recorded without lyrics , but then a whole six months later, the band wrote lyrics to fit the music and then recorded them.

That's the way all Metallica lyrics are written, except this time the whole band wrote them as opposed to just James,(*puts on nerd hat*), if you look at the Black album episode of classic albums you'll see Lars telling the audience as much.