Hard shoulders converted to traffic lanes?

MT

Could this be a possibility to ease congestion on heavily used stretches of motorway and dual-carriageway? After the upgrade it would give the M50 yet another lane. But how would the emergency services/police get to the scene of an accident?

Somehow they must manage in Scotland where the M8 uses what must have once been a hard-shoulder for an extra lane. And this pic* (56kers beware) from the Swedish wikipedia shows an urban motorway there without emergency lanes. In case you’re wondering, I don’t think those are TV screens hanging from the signs.

* I believe motorväg is Swedish for motorway

Smaller pic for slower modems.

murphaph

I'd rather they were converted to bus lanes and taken advantage of by an orbital bus service, reclassify the M50 to AP status and allow pedestrians to wait at bus stops beside the junctions, integrated with buses running on the radial routes. Maybe run Airport-Tallaght as one route. It would be virtually bus lanes all the way from the Square-very predictable jurney times. Giving over yet more tarmac to the car makes little sense to me. Of course the orbital metro will do this better it should be hoped but even post metroWest, the M50 bus lane idea can still work if done properly.

shltter

murphaph wrote:

I'd rather they were converted to bus lanes and taken advantage of by an orbital bus service, reclassify the M50 to AP status and allow pedestrians to wait at bus stops beside the junctions, integrated with buses running on the radial routes. Maybe run Airport-Tallaght as one route. It would be virtually bus lanes all the way from the Square-very predictable jurney times. Giving over yet more tarmac to the car makes little sense to me. Of course the orbital metro will do this better it should be hoped but even post metroWest, the M50 bus lane idea can still work if done properly.

There was a similar proposal floating around a while ago circle line I believe it was called
Basically have buses circling the M50 and from the junctions have buses going down the QBCs into town so if someone is going from Blanchardstown to Coolock it would be a short hop up the M50 where they would connect with a Bus to take them down the malahide road Rather than dragging people into town and back out again

It makes sense so it was doomed from the start

John R

It would only make sense if the hard shoulders were converted to bus lanes and if proper interchange locations were set up where buses could quickly leave, connect and re-access the road were built. With the state of the M50 in peak time setting up the routes to have buses sitting in jams and spending 20mns exiting and joining at each junction would be of no use to anyone.

Re-classifying the road as non-motorway and reducing the speed limit would also be necessary, no bad thing for the North and West sections anyway.

Victor

MT wrote:

Somehow they must manage in Scotland where the M8 uses what must have once been a hard-shoulder for an extra lane. And this pic* (56kers beware)

It has a hard strip - about 1m wide, this means a vehicle can pull in and traffic can still pass it, although at a reduced speed.

Many urban (as opposed to suburban) mororways don't have hard shoulders, as the extra lane more than makes up for the loss of the hard shoulder.

Capt'n Midnight

[RANT]In the UK they use narrow lanes on some roads. They put up a sign telling truck and bus drivers to use both lanes if they need to.

Here on the N9 I've been delayed often by idiots driving as far right as they can when there is oncoming traffic. What really irks me is that at some of house places you could have 3 lanes each way if you included the hard shoulder, and yet one muppet blocks all the traffic. [/RANT]

MT

Victor wrote:

It has a hard srip - about 1m wide, ...

I take that strip runs the entire length of the M8 - I can't remember, been a while since I was last on it.

Victor wrote:

Many urban (as opposed to suburban) mororways don't have hard shoulders, as the extra lane more than makes up for the loss of the hard shoulder.

Makes sense. But don't you think the M50 should be considered an urban motorway now that so much of the city has grown out around it? With many people using it for short journeys as opposed to passing by the entire city it must surely function a lot like an urban motorway.

spacetweek

murphaph wrote:

I'd rather they were converted to bus lanes and taken advantage of by an orbital bus service, reclassify the M50 to AP status and allow pedestrians to wait at bus stops beside the junctions, integrated with buses running on the radial routes. Maybe run Airport-Tallaght as one route...

Bad idea. The M50 doesn't run through town centres, it skirts them. How far is:
- Finglas centre from N2 exit
- Blanch Centre from N3 exit
- Lucan village from N4 exit
- Tallaght Square from N81 exit, etc. etc.
Out of walking distance. We already have a road which runs right past or close to most of these, the Outer Ring Road, which has bus lanes in both directions. Much of it is finished now: Phase 2 is opening this year, Phase 3 will start soon, and the Blanch Road constitutes the northern part. The bridge over the Liffey has been cancelled though - it is totally imperative that this missing section is filled in.

Downgrading the M50? I don't think so. For a start this would be a terrible waste of infrastructure, and you'd have to reduce speed limits for safety's sake as people would now be allowed down to the bustops at the side of the road. Also the noise and pollution down there wouldn't be very pleasant.

The Outer Ring Road is our bus corridor. We should be pushing for its completion, including the missing bridge section, and its extension (as originally planned) as far as the Airport. From there, it could head for the N32. The route:

N32 - Airport - N2 - Mulhuddart - Blanch - Lucan - Ballyowen - Clondalkin - Tallaght.

murphaph

spacetweek wrote:

Bad idea. The M50 doesn't run through town centres, it skirts them. How far is:
- Finglas centre from N2 exit
- Blanch Centre from N3 exit
- Lucan village from N4 exit
- Tallaght Square from N81 exit, etc. etc.
Out of walking distance.

Re-read my post. I said the buses would run around the M50 and allow interchange with buses running radially along the roads crossing the M50.

spacetweek wrote:

We already have a road which runs right past or close to most of these, the Outer Ring Road, which has bus lanes in both directions. Much of it is finished now: Phase 2 is opening this year, Phase 3 will start soon, and the Blanch Road constitutes the northern part. The bridge over the Liffey has been cancelled though - it is totally imperative that this missing section is filled in.

..

The Outer Ring Road is our bus corridor. We should be pushing for its completion, including the missing bridge section, and its extension (as originally planned) as far as the Airport.

That's not going to happen according to Fingal Co Co and tbh, it's beyond the scope of this discussion which is about converting the hard shoulders to traffic lanes. If it were to be built it would replicate almost to the yard the metroWest which is going to happen. The M50 bus corridor is far enough east to be worthwhile even post metroWest.

spacetweek wrote:

Downgrading the M50? I don't think so. For a start this would be a terrible waste of infrastructure, and you'd have to reduce speed limits for safety's sake as people would now be allowed down to the bustops at the side of the road. Also the noise and pollution down there wouldn't be very pleasant.

The M50 is a glorified dual carriageway anyway. You really think no L-drivers use it? The speed liit is to be reduced anyway to 100km/h when the upgrade is complete as the lanes will be too narrow for safe 120km/h running. As for noise and pollution-people stand in worse places waiting for buses today.

Victor

MT wrote:

I take that strip runs the entire length of the M8 - I can't remember, been a while since I was last on it.

I meant the Swedish road had hard strips, no the M8. Good example of urban motorways would be the A12/M3 in Belfast, the delisted motorways in central London and the A38(M) in Birmingham.

murphaph wrote:

That's not going to happen according to Fingal Co Co and tbh, it's beyond the scope of this discussion which is about converting the hard shoulders to traffic lanes. If it were to be built it would replicate almost to the yard the metroWest which is going to happen. The M50 bus corridor is far enough east to be worthwhile even post metroWest.

Fingal are going to lose most of their rates from the Westlink toll, so I imagine a re-think is on the cards.

antoinolachtnai

Well, if there is a toll going on the entire m50, there is going to have to be a public transport alternative for people living and working along it. Running a hundred or so traffic-prioritized buses around the M50 and its immediate hinterland looks to me like the only real way to do it.

mackerski

Many stretches of the German Autobahn network lack hard shoulders. Even where they are provided, road traffic law requires that in stopped traffic, the two traffic lanes closest to the media leave a gap between them to be used by emergency vehicles - one lane keeps to the far left of their lane, the other to the right. This is a useful practice, since in accident situations the hard shoulder is frequently blocked anyway.

Of course, subtleties of law like this would be hard to apply in a country where drivers are shocked to discover what overtaking lanes are really for.

Dermot