Souness Gone - contract terminated by NUFC

Lemlin

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Lowe is notorious for the merry-go-round. I'd wager no team in England has the same managerial turnover as Southampton. And this is a small side that has been relegated for the first time in years only last season.

Three of his other jobs were with foreign clubs. Torino are another club notorious for the chop. Benfica and Galatasaray are both big clubs that will change regularly unless doubles are being won. He had to leave Galatasaray for non-footballing reasons.

Whether he was about to be sacked or not, he left Blackburn of his own accord for a bigger club.

How many jobs has Jose Mourinho had in the last five years? Three is it? So does your theory equate to him not being any good?

Very bad example to compare Mourinho to Souness. Was Mourinho sacked from any of those jobs? Did he leave any of those teams bottom of the table, without a win, or in the state that he has left Newcastle?

He left Porto Champions of Europe. Something Souness has never done, nor ever will.

Chucky the tree

Lemlin wrote:

How, also, does he leave Newcastle in a better position than when he arrived? .

Most managers would prefer the to come into a team with the squad of players souness has made then the one robson did.


Anyway, its the craziest time to sack him. Shearer and rooder have to be out in 12 weeks since they dont have a job, if they leave it that late that will leave the new boss only a month to finish the season with.

Because of that i think shearer or sven getting the job on a permenant basis very slim. Sheppard should of either sack him in january or left him for another month or 2 so rodder and shearer could finish out the season. Sacking them now is probaly the worst time you could do it.

Lemlin

Chucky the tree wrote:

Most managers would prefer the to come into a team with the squad of players souness has made then the one robson did.


Anyway, its the craziest time to sack him. Shearer and rooder have to be out in 12 weeks since they dont have a job, if they leave it that late that will leave the new boss only a month to finish the season with.

Because of that i think shearer or sven getting the job on a permenant basis very slim. Sheppard should of either sack him in january or left him for another month or 2 so rodder and shearer could finish out the season. Sacking them now is probaly the worst time you could do it.

Of course they would. He's spent 50 million, even if some of it was on crap like Boumsong. Fact is, another manager could of got a lot more value for money than Souness, and would still have players like Bellamy there. Not to mention Andy O'Brien, he'd be an improvement on Boumsong.

Shepherd had two choice: get rid of Souness or keep him. I know which I'd take in the current circumstances.

el rabitos

How many jobs has Jose Mourinho had in the last five years? Three is it? So does your theory equate to him not being any good?

worst comparison ever tbh.

a decade of unimpressive results overall. what he did to liverpool was unforgivable, he took one of the most dominant teams in english football and had us looking at relegation before he was done.

he has no business in premiership management

Rikand

ButcherOfNog wrote:

what a complete fnuckup by Newcastle, Souness should have been let go before the transfer window opened so anyone coming into the job could at least try and bring in some of their own players. It would not surprise me if they struggled to the end of the season now, they could still go down.

EVen if they got someone in, he wouldnt have been able to spend much, i read on bbc website today that souness had bled the coiffers of Newcastle dry during the summer and there was no more money left to spend.

Lemlin

Wikipedia's account of Souness:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Souness

I think it gives a fair account of his career thus far.

He joined Rangers as player-manager for the 1987 season and the occasional bad challenge on opponents - something which Paisley had managed to restrict from him during his Liverpool days - immediately began to surface. He was sent off on his debut after two crude challenges [1]and received a handful more red cards. Souness' final appearance as a player was at Ibrox in a 2-0 victory over Dunfermline in Rangers' last home game of the '89-'90 season. Souness indulgently brought himself on for the final 20 minutes.

His other memorable activity at Rangers was his opening of the floodgates with signing non-Scottish players. He bought many Englishmen on the grounds that good players were the first requirement of a team wishing to succeed, irrespective of nationality. Scottish players had long decamped south of the border to ply their trade but English players had rarely gone north until Souness arrived at Rangers. It is probable that many English players were attracted to Rangers because the club could play in European competition, while all English clubs were banned from Europe between 1985 and 1990 following the Heysel Stadium disaster.

Souness bought defender Terry Butcher, who he described as "six foot four inches of solid muscle" from Ipswich Town F.C. to skipper the side and added goalkeeper Chris Woods and other English players. His most controversial signing was, however, a Scot. Determined to end Rangers' policy of not signing Catholic players, he signed Mo Johnston after the player had publicly pledged his future to Celtic. Johnston was a Celtic F.C. fan and ex-Celtic player, who eventually settled in at Rangers, despite hostility from supporters of both clubs, and scored plenty of goals. Johnston left Rangers in 1991, moving to Everton.

Rangers won four Scottish Premier League titles (1987, 1989, 1990, 1991) and four Scottish League Cups under Souness before he left to return to Liverpool in 1991 as manager after the resignation of Dalglish.

The four years which followed were eventful for Souness. There was some success on the field, with victory in the 1992 FA Cup final over Sunderland A.F.C., but poor tactics and ill-judged transfer dealings caused the decline of what was once the finest club in Europe. Rumours about squabbles in the dressing room between the players and Souness were rife, with Ian Rush famously telling a Sky Sports interviewer that 'teacups being thrown' were nothing new. Souness' only consolation at this time was the fact that he had blooded several new prodigious young talents like Steve McManaman and allowed them to play and develop in the first team as compared to all the other senior players whom Souness accused of lacking heart.

Ironically, it was his own heart that literally was under duress. Souness had major heart surgery in 1992, and led his players out at Wembley for the FA Cup final just days after leaving hospital. But there had been controversy over the semi-final against Portsmouth F.C..

The game itself went to a replay and then a penalty shoot-out, and in the event of a victory, an interview was due to be published in a newspaper with Souness celebrating the win and his own successful surgery. The photograph which accompanied the interview was of Souness, in his hospital ward, kissing his girlfriend with joy at his own recovery and his team's win.

The interview was due to go in alongside the match report on April 14, 1992, but the late end to the game meant that the deadline for publication was missed and the report, with interview and photograph, went in on the April 15 instead - the third anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster. Liverpool fans reacted with fury after seeing a picture of their ecstatic manager kissing his girlfriend and smiling on the day that they were remembering the 96 supporters who had died at Hillsborough. They were also angry that the interview was conducted with The Sun - a newspaper which had been so spiteful towards Liverpool supporters after the disaster had occurred in 1989 and had been boycotted on Merseyside since. Souness, who apologised profusely at the time, has since said he should have resigned.


A very famous photo of Souness in TurkeyHe made a full recovery from his heart operation and stayed at Liverpool until 1994. He quit after an FA Cup defeat against Bristol City and was replaced by Roy Evans. He went to manage Galatasaray in Turkey, and again managed to court controversy with local issues - nearly sparking a riot after placing a large Galatasaray flag into the centre circle of the pitch of hated rivals Fenerbahce after Galatasaray had beaten them in the Turkish Cup final.

Souness then returned to England to manage Southampton, but resigned, citing differences with chairman Rupert Lowe. He went back to Italy to become the coach at Torino Calcio but lasted just four months; then he went to Portugal to manage SL Benfica, which also didn't last.

He then became manager of Blackburn Rovers earning promotion back to the Premiership in his first season and winning the League Cup in 2002. Souness left Blackburn in 2004 to become manager of Newcastle United and he remained in this job until February 2006. Souness had a difficult time since arriving in the North East, falling out with a number of players including Welsh international Craig Bellamy who left the club.

Newcastle began the 2005/2006 season in poor form but Souness was hoping that the August 30 purchase of Michael Owen from Real Madrid for an estimated club-record fee of £17million would help to turn the club's fortunes around. Newcastle recorded a 'Derby-Day' win against Sunderland [3-2] and went on to win their next 3 games keeping 3 clean sheets. Souness seemed to be tightening Newcastle up in defence, with 6 clean sheets in Newcastle's first 12 games of the season [as many as the whole of the last campaign]. Souness' bringing together of two of the best England strikers in Alan Shearer and Michael Owen proved to be a major factor. However, to Souness's bad fortune, Michael Owen cracked the fifth metatarsal of his right foot during a 2-0 defeat at Tottenham on 30 December 2005, out of action for approximately 2-3 months, adding to the manager's injury woes. Newcastle were in 15th place in the Premiership table, a disappointing position for a club which had spent £50m since Souness' arrival, when his contract was terminated on 2 February.

In 1985, Souness wrote an autobiography called No Half Measures. In 1999 he wrote another book chronicling his post-playing career up to and including his spell at Southampton, entitled Souness: The Management Years.

Souness and his (now) wife have a daughter, Lauren Souness.

Chucky the tree

Lemlin wrote:

Of course they would. He's spent 50 million, even if some of it was on crap like Boumsong. Fact is, another manager could of got a lot more value for money than Souness, and would still have players like Bellamy there. Not to mention Andy O'Brien, he'd be an improvement on Boumsong.

Shepherd had two choice: get rid of Souness or keep him. I know which I'd take in the current circumstances.

Personnally i'd prefer to have 5mil then bellamy.

Lemlin

Chucky the tree wrote:

Personnally i'd prefer to have 5mil then bellamy.

5 goals in 9 league starts is his record this season. 11 goals in 16 games in all. Not bad for someone who's struggled with injury. Hopefully he'll be over that soon.

He scored 20 goals in 46 games last season for Celtic/Newcastle, including games where he played on the wing for Nukey. The season before he scored 11 in 25.

Those aren't bad stats for a striker who only cost 5 million and is generally known as a creator rather than a poacher.

As a Newcastle fan who they'd prefer to have now, Souness or Bellamy? I think we all know the answer.

Megatron

I'm glad he's gone.

As a blackburn fan i have to say the way he left us has made me hate him with a passion.

Plus getting rid of alot of players we could of used, and needed.


In all honesty i hope he gets another team soon , only to last about 20 mins.

The Rooster

Souness' experience with Liverpool and Newcastle were quite similar. He inherited shíte defences and failed to fix them, and his best players were injured too often. With Liverpool he lost the dressing room, particularly the more senior players who wanted him out, and thus failed to give their all. Although the younger players at the time, like Fowler and McManaman really liked him.

Shepherd's plan is to keep Roeder and Shearer in charge for the rest of the season, then bring in Sven. Its likely Beckham would come in the summer and would increase their chances of holding onto Owen. Strange as it may seem, Sven does want to manage in England after he finishes with England - at least he did up until the Fake Shiek episode...

Pigman II

The Rooster wrote:

Souness' experience with Liverpool and Newcastle were quite similar. He inherited shíte defences and failed to fix them, and his best players were injured too often.

How'd you work that out? Liverpool had the best GoalsConceded record in Div1 in 87-88, 88-89 and 89-90 and had only let in 18 in 24 in 90-91 before Daglish did a runner. They had a bit of a nightmare under caretaker RonnieMoran but to say Souness inheirited a shíte defence in that instance is stretching it to the extreme.*

As for the injuries I think you'll find it was his training regime that was probably responsible for most of them .

==

*BTW I *really* dislike the guy so I went to the bother of checking all that out.

Lemlin

Some reports are suggetsing that Shepherd sacked him by phone. The relationship between the two must of been at an all-time low.

Jivin Turkey

Pigman II wrote:

How'd you work that out? Liverpool had the best GoalsConceded record in Div1 in 87-88, 88-89 and 89-90 and had only let in 18 in 24 in 90-91 before Daglish did a runner. They had a bit of a nightmare under caretaker RonnieMoran but to say Souness inheirited a shíte defence in that instance is stretching it to the extreme.*

While I'm not claiming that Souness inherited a defence at Liverpool on a par with Newcastle, in his first season Hansen retired which was a massive blow, not to mention Bruce Grobelaar getting lured in by the almighty dollar. These would be huge factors in any defensive turnaround for Liverpool.

As regards comparing him with Mourinho, I wasn't, I was just trying to illustrate that a manager can obviously still be good despite having numerous jobs over a short stretch of time. You have to take each one on a case by case basis, and in Souness's case most of his stays were cut short for non-footballing reasons or by notoriously trigger happy chairmen.

Pigman II

Jivin Turkey wrote:

While I'm not claiming that Souness inherited a defence at Liverpool on a par with Newcastle, in his first season Hansen retired which was a massive blow, not to mention Bruce Grobelaar getting lured in by the almighty dollar. These would be huge factors in any defensive turnaround for Liverpool.

No he didn't. Hansen retired at the end of 89-90 so he was long gone before Souness even turned up. Plus as I've already highlighted the stats show Liverpool were still managing 18 in 24 in 90-91 w/o Hansen.

As for Grobbelar that says its all really. A goalie taking bribes and throwing games right under his nose and he doesn't even spot it.

MrJoeSoap

Grobelaar isn't even a patch on Ali Dia. How can anyone back Souness after that?

Lemlin

I wouldn't even bother lads. I've already been through this on the Graeme Souness appreciation thread, and the Carr and Souness bust-up thread.

Souness is gone. That's the end of it all.

Jivin Turkey

Pigman II wrote:

No he didn't. Hansen retired at the end of 89-90 so he was long gone before Souness even turned up. Plus as I've already highlighted the stats show Liverpool were still managing 18 in 24 in 90-91 w/o Hansen.

As for Grobbelar that says its all really. A goalie taking bribes and throwing games right under his nose and he doesn't even spot it.

I should have probably worded it better, it was Hansen's first year of retirement when Souness took over, but as you pointed out their defence was still doing well. They did lack the guidance and experience while under pressure though that Hansen provided when the going got tough. I was not the one that compared the two teams defences though, and do not think they are on a par.

As for Grobbelaar, Souness was the first manager for years to drop him in favour of Mike Hooper after a while was he not? So maybe he did notice something. Bribery was rife at that time unfortunately, and it went unnoticed under a lot more peoples noses than Souness.

As for you Lemlin, you may have "been through it all" already, but you have still to accept that Souness's last ten years in management have been successful. He has achieved some very good league placings, as well as won a few trophies, it's only been the last couple of years that have brought him down. Like him or loath him the job he did at Blackburn was an excellent one, and unthinkable considering the state they were in when he took over. Granted he finished on a low note, but still you can't deny the facts that he took Blackburn from mid-table division one to Europe through the league, as well as winning some silverware.

As I've always said, I don't think Souness is the best manager about, I think he is a poor man-manager, and a complete hot-head. His record however is not as bad as some people like to make out, and insightful comments like "Souness is a d1ckhead, he has wrecked every club he has gone to" lack any thought or knowledge, and are getting very boring.

Pigman II

Jivin Turkey wrote:

As for Grobbelaar, Souness was the first manager for years to drop him in favour of Mike Hooper after a while was he not? So maybe he did notice something. Bribery was rife at that time unfortunately, and it went unnoticed under a lot more peoples noses than Souness.

Hooper did get the odd game but I don't think he was ever first choice during his long spell with Liverpool. David James edged Grobelaar out of the team in 92-93 but even then Grobelar managed to regain his place in 93-94 and play 29 out of 38 games (injured for the other 9) so clearly Souness hadn't dropped him in 92-93 because he suspected him of dishonesty and the fact that he was first choice for all of his last season at the club shows Souness hadn't copped on even during then!

Lemlin

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I should have probably worded it better, it was Hansen's first year of retirement when Souness took over, but as you pointed out their defence was still doing well. They did lack the guidance and experience while under pressure though that Hansen provided when the going got tough. I was not the one that compared the two teams defences though, and do not think they are on a par.

As for Grobbelaar, Souness was the first manager for years to drop him in favour of Mike Hooper after a while was he not? So maybe he did notice something. Bribery was rife at that time unfortunately, and it went unnoticed under a lot more peoples noses than Souness.

As for you Lemlin, you may have "been through it all" already, but you have still to accept that Souness's last ten years in management have been successful. He has achieved some very good league placings, as well as won a few trophies, it's only been the last couple of years that have brought him down. Like him or loath him the job he did at Blackburn was an excellent one, and unthinkable considering the state they were in when he took over. Granted he finished on a low note, but still you can't deny the facts that he took Blackburn from mid-table division one to Europe through the league, as well as winning some silverware.

As I've always said, I don't think Souness is the best manager about, I think he is a poor man-manager, and a complete hot-head. His record however is not as bad as some people like to make out, and insightful comments like "Souness is a d1ckhead, he has wrecked every club he has gone to" lack any thought or knowledge, and are getting very boring.

I don't have to accept anything, nor do I have to argee or argue with anything either. We've been through the subject of Souness until both of us are blue in the face.

I said he'd be gone by January, and he was gone two days later. That's enough for me and the matter is now over with in my mind.

My only hope for Souness now is that he'll get the Rangers or Burnley jobs