Muslim cartoons...

Mmmm_Lemony

HelterSkelter wrote:

You should shut up cos you are making a fool out of yourself. You obviously have no idea about Islam at all. It is not OK with Islam to kill. The thing is it in Islam it is ok to defend your country if you are being attacked, however some extremists take this too far and use it as an excuse for 9/11 and stuff like that.

I ask you again as you are avoiding the question, how many 'real' Muslims (apart from the Bin Laden linked Muslims at footie) do you know? Who are the Muslims that told you they were happy that 9/11 happened?

I ask YOU again. How many real muslims do YOU know?

By the way, I am already a fool,.. but at least I have bad breath!!!

HelterSkelter

Mmmm_Lemony wrote:

I ask YOU again. How many real muslims do YOU know?

By the way, I am already a fool,.. but at least I have bad breath!!!

I have several good friends who are Muslims. They are all British born. And they are like everyone else I know. They like all the same stuff we do, music, footie, TV, etc etc. Only difference is they don't drink alcohol.

Mmmm_Lemony

I thought muslims aren't allowed listen to popular music or watch popular television etc... Or perhalps the ones born in england are?

HelterSkelter

Mmmm_Lemony wrote:

I thought muslims aren't allowed listen to popular music or watch popular television etc... Or perhalps the ones born in england are?

Not true either.

Wibbs

Shrimp wrote:

The Church at the time of the crusades went on a crusade in order to force their religion on people, and gain money, land.. etc.

True. Who's defending that? I'm not. the only thing you could say in it's defence is that jesus wasn't leading them(and many would suggest he wouldn't have been too sweet on the idea).

Mohammad assembled an army to defend himself and his people against the oppression of the unbelievers of the time

....and gained a lot of land power, money and slaves in the process. Sound familiar to the above yet? What about the Meccan caravans he raided, the people who were killed and the slaves that were taken and indeed raped in those raids? Very defensive of course.

It also brings an interesting point to bear. We're the unbelievers now, are we not? What do you define as oppression as well? We in the west are being accused of oppression by many Muslim commentators. Not such a big step to a justified holy war is it?

There is only one version of Islam, unlike Christianity.

I'm sure the Shi'ites, Sunnis, Sufis, Wahhabis, etc. might disagree. there's been enough tension between them over the years. http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_sects.htm

HelterSkelter wrote:

Not true either.

True, unless they're very very fundamentalist. I don't know any Muslims who don't listen to music. I even know one bloke who reckons Kylie's a great singer. Now that's scarier than any fatwa.

Shrimp

Wibbs wrote:

....and gained a lot of land power, money and slaves in the process. Sound familiar to the above yet? What about the Meccan caravans he raided, the people who were killed and the slaves that were taken and indeed raped in those raids? Very defensive of course.

Where are you getting this from? Islam does not teach people to rape or have slaves, have some cop on. You're sarcastic tone doesn't do anything to better your argument.

Blisterman

Back to the cartoons.
Am I the only one who'se opinion of Islam has been lowered, not at all as a result of seeing those cartoons, but at seeing the ridiculous response to it. So called "Religious Leaders" telling people to go out and kill the people responsible.
It wasn't even a newspaper in a Muslim country. It was in a country which has free speech.
They're the ones being intolerent.

mike65

Khaleed Kelly was doing his usual hateful Muslim act on Today FM a short time ago. He makes the Ayatollah Khomeini seem reasonable.

Mike.

tSubh Dearg

I was in Denmark just before Christmas, I have relatives who live there. My aunt told me about the back story to this controversy.

Basically the newspaper in question, in an effort to be controversial, asked about 40 politcal cartoonist if they would be willing to draw a picture of Mohammad. Only 12 of these cartoonists agreed to do it.

Once the pictures were published, which was back in September I think, there was outcry from the local Muslim community as well as that abroad. At the time the Danish PM was travelling in Egypt and the Head of State there asked the PM to make the newspaper apologise for its actions. To this the PM replied he could do no such thing as there was free speech in his country and the newspapers could choose to publish what they wanted.

Mainly what the Muslim community was objecting to was the lack of respect shown for their beliefs by the paper. Now the more moderate Muslims living in Denmark, were boycotting the paper but more extreme groups put jihads on the artists in question, who I believe are still in hiding.

The whole thing had died down to some extent but the recent republication of the pictures by some other EU papers one in Jordan has led to it returning to the public conciousness.

I really don't see the reasoning of the editor of the paper behind this stunt (and really that's all it is, a glorified publicity stunt). He/She must have known what the reaction would be. But whatever sells papers I suppose.

Dyr

Thought for the day: would german newspapers publish cartoons that are offensive to jews? :eek:

I've no problems with those cartoons but dont kid yourself that freedom of speech truly exists in europe, we have our sacred cows and taboos just like the muslim world


:v: < sure it looked nothin like mohammed anyways ffs

danniemcq

dudara wrote:

The simple fact is that images of the Prophet are blaspehmous to the muslims.

It's rude of us to print something that offends them. Making fun of religion is not actually fun.

hmmmm

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=225541 lol!

Binomate

"Death to those who insult Islam!" was just one of the things I saw written on the banners on the report on Sky News about the protest in London. When was the last time you saw something like "Death to al who insult Christianity" picketing about the 'Jesus, lol' pictures or Monthy Python's 'The life of Brian'? They're making a big deal out of nothing. I was told by an Islamic friend of mine that the reason to this was because Christians have no morals and she said it was generally viewed upon by most Muslims that westerners are completely immoral and have no religious values at all. After hearing that I only wish I drew the cartoons!:v:

Wibbs

Shrimp wrote:

Where are you getting this from? Islam does not teach people to rape or have slaves, have some cop on. You're sarcastic tone doesn't do anything to better your argument.

Read your Hadeeth for further enlightenment. Mohammed had slaves for a start. He even freed one. Very nice of him. Of course he had to own him in the first place.....

Binomate wrote:

After hearing that I only wish I drew the cartoons!

I think it was offensive to Muslims. Fair enough, sue the papers til they bleed from all their wallets. I've no problem with that. My problem is the agressive "How dare you, immoral west. Repent or we kill you" tone.

super_furry

There are striking similarities between these cartoons and the Paddy Power 'Last Supper' poster - http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9596844/

The Paddy Power poster could even be deemed more offensive as it's using Christian iconography to promote gambling. However, look at how Christians reacted to it. In a nation of Catholics, 100 wrote letters and complained to the advertising comission. There were no riots, no protests and no internationals outcries.

Gator

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Kaaaboooom!!!!!

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d

Shrimp

Wibbs wrote:

Read your Hadeeth for further enlightenment. Mohammed had slaves for a start. He even freed one. Very nice of him. Of course he had to own him in the first place.....

I think it was offensive to Muslims. Fair enough, sue the papers til they bleed from all their wallets. I've no problem with that. My problem is the agressive "How dare you, immoral west. Repent or we kill you" tone.

He bought the slave from a slave owner, then let him free. This is a pointless discussion, as we are talking about very specific details.

As everyone knows, there's always a few bad eggs in every line of life. But they represent a very small minority..

For example, the way priests have gotten a bad name, personally I dont tar them all with the same brush, and as for the ones who abused kids well It's pretty obvious that they aren't exactly recognised as practicers of the faith. Just as those who are called extremists shouldn't be recognised as practicers of their fait... I wouldn't say all chatolics are bad, just cos a few priests have been bad.. You know?

Wibbs

Shrimp wrote:

He bought the slave from a slave owner, then let him free. This is a pointless discussion, as we are talking about very specific details.

Read the relevant books. Slavery is all over the place in Islam. Anyway, pointless or not, he and his followers raided caravans and took women slaves and most pertinent to this debate, those around him met with violent deaths, by the hands of his followers, if they dared to make fun of him. Deaths, known about, condoned and unpunished by him,

As everyone knows, there's always a few bad eggs in every line of life. But they represent a very small minority..

Agreed. In fact where intransigent religions are concerned, I'm heartened to find that 90% of people who follow them and their sometimes dubious teachings are generally cool.

Just as those who are called extremists shouldn't be recognised as practicers of their fait... I wouldn't say all chatolics are bad, just cos a few priests have been bad.. You know?

No I get you Shrimp, but I would say that the heirarchy of the catholic faith was bad as it knew about these abuses for far too long for comfort. Any system is open to abuse but Islam seems to be a system far more open to abuse than secular democracy, for all it's faults, that's for sure.

December Son

danniemcq wrote:

hmmmm

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=225541 lol!

This is exactly what i think.
The muslims are all getting thier knickers in a knot because someone drew a few pictures of mohammed. Oh NOES!! Not a CARTOON!!! :rolleyes:
If i had to wage a jihad everytime i saw someone take the piss out of Jesus, or saw one of those buddy jesus things, or even as i saw in someone sig the other day, a picture of christ on the cross listening to an ipod with the tagline 'iGod', well then id have had to wage an awful lot of jihads in my time.

Every other major religion in the world is, or has been, subject to ridicule at one time or another. Why should muslims get preferential treatment? Because they'll blow us up if we dont respect them?? So basically its cool to make fun of my religion and my prophet cause im not a potential suicide bomber, but you better not piss off those radical muslims or youll be getting a boeing 747 on a crash course with your house if you do?? Its ridiculous. Utter lunacy. I for one wish every newpaper in the f*cking world would reproduce these cartoons.

Blue Peter

Can someone make that face of mohammed into an Avatar that we can all use?

Binomate

So what it boils down to is that it is a rule in Islam that you are not allowed to make images of the Prophet. The cartoonist wasn't a follower of Islam so none of the Islamic rules apply to him. He can draw what ever the hell he wants. Pitty he was sacked though.

Mikel

Are the people who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam not also besmirching the name of the Prophet?
When are the street protests against suicides bomber planned for?

http://jihadwatch.org/

Terry

Now however, in (Exodus 20) Moses wrote God's name with the Ten Commandments upon two tablets of stone:
"God spoke all these words, saying: I am God your Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, from the place of slavery. Do not have any other gods before Me. Do not represent [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land. Do not bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship.

it's been a while since i've been in a church, but i do recall seeing statues of the vigin mary, jesus, st. peter and a few others.
christianity has changed over the years, but islam has not. muslims are following 1,500 year old teachings that don't really work in western civilisation. christianity preaches tolerance for all, but it has no always been the case. see the crusades for example.
hopefully the time will come when muslims adopt a similar approach to life, although i don't think that will happen for a long time. the last muslim i spoke to told me that pretty soon the whole world will follow the teachings of mohammed. he was truly convinced of this.

dlofnep

Attention extremist Muslims, get a grip with reality.

lazydaisy

Moron flagburners practicing the very principle of free speech they want terminated so badlly.

Its a cartoon. Deal with it. Freedom of speech means someone sometime will be offended. Its the price you pay for this liberty. If you dont like it then live in a country that doesnt practise it.

I hope the cartoonist preserves his artistic integriity and doesn't cowtow to this blackmail.

Oh and does anyone know where I can get a t-shirt with the Danish Flag on it? So I can wear it, not burn it.

DirkVoodoo

For people who want their religion treated by respect by non-muslims, its interesting to know that it is illegal to build a church in the islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia since it is the birth place of the prophet. Even the wearing of non-muslin symbols is restricted.

Nice to know that we are asked to be tolerant and respectful of a religion which posseses none of these qualities.

andrew163

DirkVoodoo wrote:

For people who want their religion treated by respect by non-muslims, its interesting to know that it is illegal to build a church in the islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia since it is the birth place of the prophet. Even the wearing of non-muslin symbols is restricted.

Nice to know that we are asked to be tolerant and respectful of a religion which posseses none of these qualities.

In fairness.... how many mosques are there in the Vatican?*

google... some interesting summaries here..

I know Saudi Arabia is faar bigger then the Vatican, but... we aren't perfect in that department ourselves. Muslim states are not secular, and whether this is right or wrong (different argument altogether), it's something we're not used to. I pointed out the Vatican because it's the closest thing there is to a non-secular state in western Europe.

Having said that... yes I agree it's a bit strange that they want their religion respected *in our countries* yet don't even let it be practised *in their country*.

*I'm gonna feel reeeeal stupid when someone shows me a photo of a mosque in the Vatican...

Guy:Incognito

They all need to chill the fook out and not get so worked up about these things. Why can't they all just be like us non practising Christian and not give a crap about what is written/said about God/the pope?

It is because religions have all these holy-joes that let religion be such a big and pivitol part of their lives that there is so much blooshed in the name of religion.

They're all going to be royally pissed when they figure out that none of their poxy gods exist in the first place (every religion I mean , not just muslims)

andrew163 wrote:

In fairness.... how many mosques are there in the Vatican?*

How many muslims live in the vatican. Unless they have a sizeable population, there would'nt really be much of a need for a Mosque.

andrew163 wrote:

*I'm gonna feel reeeeal stupid when someone shows me a photo of a mosque in the Vatican...

Anyone good with photoshop?:D

Hobbes

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Nice to know that we are asked to be tolerant and respectful of a religion which posseses none of these qualities.

Did you know that UK law used to define blasphemy only in relation to the Church of England. Only changed recently.

I'd like to say Ireland is changing in this regard. For example try getting your kid into a school in Ireland if they are Irish and are not Catholic. Although it is changing, saw recently a TD campagining for the seperation of the Catholic church from schools.

There are varying levels of intolerance.

darkman2

The unrest over these pictures shows once again why islam may not be compatible with Western democracy. Free speech is a corner stone of our societies and now these ppl are trying to force us to change that. Im sure im not the only one whose patience is running out with unsavoury asspects of the Muslim world.

dlofnep

No Darkman, you are not.

jcf

I saw some photos of protests in London (attached photo)

How can they get away with banners like that ?? !!!

With what happened in London on July 7th , You would think
the police there would beat the living sh1t out of them!.

This whole incident has really given me a dim view of muslims,
I try to be open minded but they seem to be so savage and barbaric,
when Catholics/protestants/other religions protest they might show anger , but never such savagery as those banners, I mean that reference especially to 3/11 (Madrid bombings) is TOO far.

dlofnep

If they don't like it there, they should go home to their homeland tbh.

Blisterman

Exactly. When in Rome...
If they can't deal with free speech, go back to their own oppressed countries, where noone can express an opinion. Don't start threatening people with violence.

dlofnep

Yeah, I'm going to gracefully leave this thread. I get too angry when I think about it and the amount of **** they can get away with. It's ok for them to write that stuff above but not for a cartoon to be made?

Not only are the contradicting themselves, they are setting up world war 3 without knowing it.

jcf

Hear, Hear , mindless barbaric savages

darkman2

Christianity is carricatured all the time, what I dont understand is what makes Islam any different. Begs the question for the numerous do-gooders we have amongst us: who is being intolerant now? There is a major clash of cultures brewing.

I would also like to ask when ppl are protesting against America why arent they protesting against Muslim suicide bombings???????:mad:

elvis2002

How can this be allowed, people with signs in england with 'i love binladen', '3/11 is coming soon', 'kill those who dont believe', these are the same people who will then say terrorism is not linked to their religion. Scumbags.

DirkVoodoo

Hobbes wrote:

I'd like to say Ireland is changing in this regard. For example try getting your kid into a school in Ireland if they are Irish and are not Catholic. Although it is changing, saw recently a TD campagining for the seperation of the Catholic church from schools.

I dont know what you mean by this. My friend warren went to the same holy ghost school as we did, and he wasn't catholic or even christian. What it meant was that in juniour school when we went to mass once a week he didnt have to and in senior school...well, no difference at all.

I dont see how this relates to the extremes seen in Saudi Arabia. Ireland itself has seen massive changes in its attitude to catholicism in the last 50 years, whereas most muslim countries haven'y changed any laws since medieval times. I think what needs to be seen here is that at least christianity is making efforts to change to keep up with the modern world.

DirkVoodoo

dlofnep wrote:

Not only are the contradicting themselves, they are setting up world war 3 without knowing it.

Contradiction seems part of islam. The koran prohibits the killing of innocents and the act of suicide. Go figure...

Hobbes

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Contradiction seems part of islam. The koran prohibits the killing of innocents and the act of suicide. Go figure...

So does the Bible. Go figure.

DirkVoodoo wrote:

I dont know what you mean by this.

Yes it is changing. Around the time I was a kid it was a totally different story and still is in some parts of Ireland.

Atrocity

I hope thousands more cartoons like those are made again and again. Maybe then Muslims will get used to it and shut up.

No really, I love Muslims. They're funny guys.

Mmmm_Lemony

Mikel wrote:

Are the people who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam not also besmirching the name of the Prophet?
When are the street protests against suicides bomber planned for?

http://jihadwatch.org/

Here, here.

Maybe shrimp can give us the dates.

Blisterman

Do you know what's funny about this.
If noone had kicked up a fuss, barely anyone would have seen the cartoons. Now practically everyone has.

dlofnep

What's funny about it is a prophet with a bomb stuck to his head. They get angry about it.. "Oh.. this isn't what my religion is all about! We're peaceful!! I know, I'll burn down some embassys. That'll show em!!"

mysteria

jcf wrote:

Hear, Hear , mindless barbaric savages

I am truly amazed by the lack of awareness by the posters on this board.
So everyone here believes everything they read in papers and sees on TV?And can't see behind the propaganda being fed to us daily about the Islamic people, to justify Bush&Blair's attempted holocaust of Muslims. How would Roman Catholics feel if Al Jazeera and Islamic papers printed cartoons of the pope abusing children and sh***ing women & men? I think we might see a few raised eyebrows to say the least. The thing is, the Life of Brian was made BY CHRISTIANS and it is an inherent part of human nature that while we can laugh at ourselves we do NOT like other people taking the p**s out of us. There have been hundreds if not thousands of cartoons of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, Islamic extremists, suicide bombers etc. and Muslims didn't object. And not all Muslims are offended, but media attention and sensationalism is fuelling an already inflammatory situation.Media demonization of Islam is propaganda to justify what the west is doing. For example during the last world war the british were told that Germans ate babies!
The west has invaded their countries, tortured and killed many thousands of innocent individuals, now someone draws blasphemous cartoons and we are amazed (and offended)because Muslims don't find them funny? Try a reality check!

dlofnep

mysteria wrote:

I am truly amazed by the lack of awareness by the posters on this board.
So everyone here believes everything they read in papers and sees on TV?And can't see behind the propaganda being fed to us daily about the Islamic people, to justify Bush&Blair's attempted holocaust of Muslims.

Propaganda? Nothing biased about these images.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/58079/23179.jpg
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5105418,00.jpg

mysteria wrote:

How would Roman Catholics feel if Al Jazeera and Islamic papers printed cartoons of the pope abusing children and sh***ing women & men? I think we might see a few raised eyebrows to say the least.

Eyebrows raised? Sure. Embassies burned down, mass protests pledging death to those who make derogatory remarks about catholiicism? Absolutely not. Me personally? I wouldn't give it a second of thought.

The west has invaded their countries, tortured and killed many thousands of innocent individuals, now someone draws blasphemous cartoons and we are amazed (and offended)because Muslims don't find them funny? Try a reality check!

And they haven't killed? Suicide bombings, beheadings of innocent people? This isn't as lob-sided as you would have liked for your argument. Nice try.

Pet

Its ridiculous. Utter lunacy. I for one wish every newpaper in the f*cking world would reproduce these cartoons.

Agreed. No special treatment for anyone, I say. If they don't like satire, then they should pack up and go home.

Talaghn

all I have to say is.. More people are going to want to see the cartoons since all the fuss started. I wouldnt have even thought about untill the case began!

which in turn will give the complaint more power!:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Tbh, the drawing was pretty dire. At least if it's going to start world war III, he could of put a bit more effort into it.

Teg Veece

The west has invaded their countries, tortured and killed many thousands of innocent individuals, now someone draws blasphemous cartoons and we are amazed (and offended)because Muslims don't find them funny? Try a reality check!

What kind of people declare a "Day of Anger" over a cartoon? I think the Islamic leaders are the ones in need of a reality check.