Iran nuclear power - what's the problem?

Zita

Can someone explain to me what the issue the US have with Iran setting up a nuclear plant?

This may seem dim, but I really can't understand why this would be an issue with so many countries using nuclear power.

Is it a trust issue? Is it political wranglings?

From what I have read in the papers Iran seems like its going to push forward with the implementation, so I am interested in al lsides of the argument.

Dave!

Isn't it because Iran doesn't like Israel? And the US does?

Iran + nukes = Israel - people

Nuttzz

i suspose the fear is that they will use peaceful nuclear technology to develop nuclear weapons and with recent statements from their president saying that Israel should be wiped out, it kinda raises a few concerns...

Orizio

Maybe just maybe the idea of an unstable and illiberal country in the center of the ME with the ability to produce nuclear weaponry,an ability that will give this illiberal and Islamist state unparalled power and influence over its neighbours,might be a bit of a worry to an America with thousands upon thousands of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Zita

Yes, I do get that as being the argument. But how real is it as a fact?

A country with the resources and drive like Iran could make or get nuclear arms, if they wanted to.... right?

So, why not aid in the implementation with monitoring in place? And not just in Iran but any country wishing to start with this kind of power.

I'm not a great fan of nuclear power, especially given the lack of accountability of some sites, e.g. Sellafield.

Isn't there a world wide body that is supposed to monitor all nuclear power plants?

Or has Iran rejected implementatin support and monitoring?

Nuttzz

Iran has nuclear power plants, its the enrichment of uranium (which is needed for nuclear weapons production) that is causing the problems


read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%27s_nuclear_program

Dave!

Well I'd think that they'd find it quite difficult to get nukes, or else they'd already have them! They have to be made somewhere, and rest assured, that somewhere is being monitored by Team America: World Police!

I don't think helping them to build up the capabilities is a good idea. Somewhere down the line they may decide now's a good time to start building bombs or whatever. And they may somehow sneak through a monitoring committee.

It just doesn't seem smart tbh

Victor

Orizio wrote:

Maybe just maybe the idea of an unstable and illiberal country in the center of the ME with the ability to produce nuclear weaponry,an ability that will give this illiberal and Islamist state unparalled power and influence over its neighbours,might be a bit of a worry to an America with thousands upon thousands of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Pakistan is a "south Asian" Country, not a Middle Eastern country.

Zita

DaveMcG wrote:

I don't think helping them to build up the capabilities is a good idea. Somewhere down the line they may decide now's a good time to start building bombs or whatever. And they may somehow sneak through a monitoring committee.

I would be more suspicious of US sneakiness than many other countries.

Its an oldy.... but the US are the only gov, to have used nuclear weapons. And their ability for cover ups is unparralled.

Essey

The problem isn't between Iran and the US - its between Iran and everyone. Europe, Russia and China are dead against Iran achieving nuclear capability as much if not more so than the US. Few people truly believe that Iran is pursuing its policy as a means of energy conservation. First of all it doesn't have the technology for this venture and secondly as one of the largest oil producing country there is no over whelming economic need for such a pursuit. What the US, Europe, Russia and China fear most is an arms race in the Middle East. To date most of the Middle Eastern countries have been deter from pursuing any nuclear ambitions, however, if Iran gains nuclear capability this may all change and create chaos in an already unstablized area.

Catsmokinpot

basically the us economy runs on something called the "petrodollar" (i have a limited understanding of what it actually is but heres my opinion anyway)

the currency in which oil is traded all over the world is the dollar, with this, america can print as much money as it wants and it will be backed up by oil, a couple of years ago iraq wanted to start using the euro to trade oil with in effect subverting the petrodollar which was a way of hitting a dig at americas economy... because iraq is one of the main oil producing nations, america would suffer huge damage to its economy, because this virtual credit card would disappear.

a year later iraq is accused of harbouring weapons of mass destruction and is "freed" by america to save its economy...

the same is happening with iran. iran want to setup their own trading system in euros, as irans power demands rise their cheapest option is to develop nuclear power.... but america is using this as an excuse to point the finger and say they're trying to get the A-Bomb and must be stopped.... bla bla bla another war begins

i could be wrong but its just my opinion

Orizio

Victor wrote:

Pakistan is a "south Asian" Country, not a Middle Eastern country.

Very clever.

the currency in which oil is traded all over the world is the dollar, with this, america can print as much money as it wants and it will be backed up by oil, a couple of years ago iraq wanted to start using the euro to trade oil with in effect subverting the petrodollar which was a way of hitting a dig at americas economy... because iraq is one of the main oil producing nations, america would suffer huge damage to its economy, because this virtual credit card would disappear.

The US gets most of its oil from South America,not the ME.Invading Iraq and doing severe damage to its oil infastructure seems a moronic thing to do when it would just have been easier to drop the stringent sanctions on the Iraqi oil industry,no?

Sorry but this whole oil thing makes little sense.

smashey

Hasn't Israel got nuclear weapons too? Now remember the cold war when the USA and the USSR stockpiled their weapons so much that one wouldn't dare attack the other because they both knew that it would lead to the total destruction of both countries. Nuclear deterrent they called it. Would the threat posed by Israel not have the same affect on Iran and vice versa? India and Pakistan anyone. Also why do those countries who have weapons of mass destruction take the moral high ground and dictate to the rest?

Nuttzz

all valid, except Israel hasnt said it will wipe <insert middle east country here> off the face of the earth....

Essey

In a weird way, Isreals' achieving nuclear capability has actually increased the stability of the area. Before Israel had nuclear weapons (of course we are assuming that they do), the Saudis & Egyptians were compelled (by there populace) to intervene on behalf of their Palestinian brethren (which in fact Egypt did in 1968). However, neither the Saudi nor the Egyptians are comfortable with this position. The Saudi want to sell oil and one of their biggest consumers to date is the west, the Egyptians want tourist dollars (war doesn't inspire thoughts of sun and fun) and the biggest cruncher is that in any conflict Israel will most likely be backed by the US and possible Europe. By Israel "having" nukes, Middle Eastern countries have a built in excuse not to attack. Nobody is going down that road - brethren be damned. Do do they have nukes, well we really only have John Crossman's word for it and the fact that Britain gave them nuclear material in the '50's - but that seems to be enough to make everyone take a step back - at its worked so far. Proliferation in the region would only serve to destabilize it.

Hobbes

Orizio wrote:

The US gets most of its oil from South America,not the ME.Invading Iraq and doing severe damage to its oil infastructure seems a moronic thing to do

11% they get from the ME. However the ME has the largest stockpile of it AFAIR that is cheap to remove from the ground.

Btw, when they invaded Iraq first thing they did was secure all the oil fields to ensure there was no damage. Also to take control of office that holds all the bills in relation to oil. Oh and switch Iraq back to Dollar trading.

Nuttzz wrote:

all valid, except Israel hasnt said it will wipe <insert middle east country here> off the face of the earth....

Actually they have said they will (and have) use force to pre-emptively protect themselves which isn't that far off then what the other side is spouting.

In a weird way, Isreals' achieving nuclear capability has actually increased the stability of the area.

Reminds me of a Kenny Everett Joke. He said that statistically it is impossible that there would be two bombs on board a plane so everyone should carry a bomb to ensure thier safety.

The point it boils down to is that because there are such things as suicide bombers that everyone in the middle east thinks the same way and is happy to watch thier country be turned into glass by the US just to wipe the state of Israel off the map, which radioactive fallout would effect other Muslims for years and that they would also be nuking one of the most religous sites in the world.

Sorry but they don't think that way. Personally I see them aquiring nukes (if they are) as a self defense because they have been dubbed "axis of evil" and other AoE countries with nukes have been untouched.

I forget the timeframe (think just after Iraq war) but there was a poll done in Iran that many people believed that the US planned to take control of thier country by invading.

Ajnag

Two things, Dosnt Iran have the right to withdraw from the non-proliferation treaty?

And isnt the Iaea monitoring all present Iranian activitys.

My personal bet is Iran wants the Japan option(nukes within months) and is using the current situation to stir the pot.

Dont take Ahmedenjad too seriously either, the strings up his ass trail straight back to the Supreme religious counsil and the Ayatolah.

Orizio

smashey wrote:

Hasn't Israel got nuclear weapons too? Now remember the cold war when the USA and the USSR stockpiled their weapons so much that one wouldn't dare attack the other because they both knew that it would lead to the total destruction of both countries. Nuclear deterrent they called it. Would the threat posed by Israel not have the same affect on Iran and vice versa? India and Pakistan anyone. Also why do those countries who have weapons of mass destruction take the moral high ground and dictate to the rest?

What a lot of people just seem to ignore here is that Isreal has nuclear weapons.Thats a cold hard fact,and one that will not change no matter how many 'moral equivalence' arguments one may bring up.The day Isreal gives up its nukes is the day hell freezes over.People can bring up Isreal all they want but using Isreal's nukes as some kind of moral reason for allowing Iran to have its own nukes(which isn't what I'm saying you said btw) is a argument not based in reality.

The problem with a nuclear Iran isn't that Iran is about to use its nukes or that Iran will allow its nukes into the hands of Hamas or Al-Queda.The danger is that Iran will gain even greater political clout over its neighbours and spark an arms race across the ME.With thousands of US troops nearby,Isreal in range,greater instability in the ME and a Iran dominating its neighbours,nobody-including China and Russia-is going to allow Iran to gain nukes.

Ajnag

The problem with a nuclear Iran isn't that Iran is about to use its nukes or that Iran will allow its nukes into the hands of Hamas or Al-Queda.The danger is that Iran will gain even greater political clout over its neighbours and spark an arms race across the ME.With thousands of US troops nearby,Isreal in range,greater instability in the ME and a Iran dominating its neighbours,nobody-including China and Russia-is going to allow Iran to gain nukes.

Iran already has clout, given current oil prices and the size of the Iranian oil reserves they are sitting pretty. Add to that that they control the strait's of Homuz through which pass's 20% of the worlds oil supply. Second of china will back iran to considerable lenths for two reason; China is pious about its return to grace and will not let anything what so ever threaten that, most of all one of their biggest oil suppliers falling in the hands of others.

Also who exactly will start the arms race?
Pakistan already has nukes, Afghanistan couldnt, Iraq couldnt, Saudi wont rock the boat, Syria are feeling right edgy, and the Caspian states are either too poor or badly run. Not to mention that most arab states dont particularly view Iran as a threat.

The real danger's imo are letting nuke's fall into the hands of a potentially unstable theocratic regime and the fact that one nuke would obliterate tel-aviv which has massive population.

On the other hand, It worked for north korea, monkey see, monkey do.

I would bet that a us non agression treaty would stop Iran's nuclear ambitions but sadly theres a better chance of hell frezzing over atm.

magick

basically sh*t load of oil in that region , now put in place "crazy man" in the middle of it, basically over night can blackmail the world with his nuke because the west loves their oil ! yummy!

Manic Moran

It has been noted that third parties such as Russia have offered to provide Iran the enriched uranium for their reactors, but Iran has refused the offer.

I've often debated with myself the moral merits of a position akin to "We have the bomb, but we think we're responsible, and you can't have the bomb, because we're not sure about you."

Ultimately, and maybe it's just because I'm a Westerner, I've decided I have to agree. While the various nuclear powers might at short notice go invading people, at least it's extremely unlikely that they would unleash nukes. Some other countries are a little less trustworthy in that regard.

NTM

Nuttzz

Orizio wrote:

What a lot of people just seem to ignore here is that Isreal has nuclear weapons.Thats a cold hard fact,and one that will not change no matter how many 'moral equivalence' arguments one may bring up.The day Isreal gives up its nukes is the day hell freezes over.People can bring up Isreal all they want but using Isreal's nukes as some kind of moral reason for allowing Iran to have its own nukes(which isn't what I'm saying you said btw) is a argument not based in reality.

The problem with a nuclear Iran isn't that Iran is about to use its nukes or that Iran will allow its nukes into the hands of Hamas or Al-Queda.The danger is that Iran will gain even greater political clout over its neighbours and spark an arms race across the ME.With thousands of US troops nearby,Isreal in range,greater instability in the ME and a Iran dominating its neighbours,nobody-including China and Russia-is going to allow Iran to gain nukes.

i'd love to the see proof of the cold hard fact that israel is a nuclear power, while I suspect that they are, there is no published evidence of the existance of israeli nuclear weapons, unless I've missed it somewhere

Dave!

Zita wrote:

I would be more suspicious of US sneakiness than many other countries.

Its an oldy.... but the US are the only gov, to have used nuclear weapons. And their ability for cover ups is unparralled.

Yeah, I really agree with you about that, but unfortunately they're so powerful that everyone just falls in line behind them. We know that the US is dangerous and sneaky, but they're at least kinda predictable, and at least FEIGN democracy. Iran are just a load of looneys! Nah that's harsh... the US are looneys too.

So the US is an already established danger; we don't need another one!

Suff

DaveMcG wrote:

So the US is an already established danger; we don't need another one!

Nuttzz wrote:

i'd love to the see proof of the cold hard fact that israel is a nuclear power, while I suspect that they are, there is no published evidence of the existance of israeli nuclear weapons, unless I've missed it somewhere

maybe we need to have balance in the region, Israel have Nuclear power aready and they are keeping this hid well until Mordechai Vanunu, Israel's nuclear whistleblower, who was jailed in 1986 for publishing photographs of Israel's nuclear bomb factory at Dimona.
check the BBC for link

I would be alot more happy to have no WMD in the MiddleEast but everytime we try to push that treaty into the security council the USA veto against it :mad:

Manic Moran

i'd love to the see proof of the cold hard fact that israel is a nuclear power, while I suspect that they are, there is no published evidence of the existance of israeli nuclear weapons, unless I've missed it somewhere

I don't think there is any reputable agency that does not attribute Israel as having nuclear weapons.
Whether or not they work remains another matter since I don't believe they've ever been tested, but who's going to volunteer to give them a target to find out?

Interestingly, a few years ago, reports came out saying that Iran 'likely' had one or two from the FSU.

NTM

Suff

Manic Moran wrote:

but who's going to volunteer to give them a target to find out?
NTM

you see if Israel used it's Nuclear weapons against any of it's neighbours it will effect Israel just as much as it would th target! so why have it? I dont know!

Same with Iran, I dont see the using it against anyone. unless then got some long-distance war heads!! ?

I dont think any country in the ME would benefit of Nuclear weapons, Nuclear technology for energy, sure.

Whistle Blower

Suff wrote:

you see if Israel used it's Nuclear weapons against any of it's neighbours it will effect Israel just as much as it would th target! so why have it? I dont know!

Same with Iran, I dont see the using it against anyone. unless then got some long-distance war heads!! ?

I dont think any country in the ME would benefit of Nuclear weapons, Nuclear technology for energy, sure.

Israel has the Samson option meaning one thing if they are over run (which will never happen) they will wipe out a good part of the ME aswell as themselves....Israel is a civil and restrained country Iran is a fanatical EVIL country, the head of the country advocates the destruction of Israel and Jews..... Well Newsflash there here to stay as for Iran it will be soon invaded by Allied Forces one way or the other and again maybe another country in the Arab world will learn to comply with the Rules of the World....

And Nuclear Power for Energy RIGHT we believe that, like Syria don't have a huge stockpile of Biological and Chemical Weapons, like they don't sponsor terrorism and they don't oppress Lebanesse Christians and Muslims come to think of it....An I am a WOMBLE....What terrorist organisation are you a member of again ???

Again why so scared of Israel.........Why the hatred.......Why are you not in your beloved ME if you love it so much.....???????

Suff

Always goes off topic!

I must clear few thing, appologies for going off topic on aumber of issues here guys....

Whistle Blower wrote:

Israel has the Samson option meaning one thing if they are over run (which will never happen) they will wipe out a good part of the ME aswell as themselves....

True, they will wipe out the ME including Israel.

Whistle Blower wrote:

Israel is a civil and restrained country Iran is a fanatical EVIL country,

both are the exact same.

Whistle Blower wrote:

the head of the country advocates the destruction of Israel and Jews.....

Israel calls for the destruction of Palestine and the arab world.

Whistle Blower wrote:

Well Newsflash there here to stay as for Iran it will be soon invaded by Allied Forces one way or the other and again maybe another country in the Arab world will learn to comply with the Rules of the World....

U]on topic[/U

It won't happen, no allied forces are availabe in the world for such WAR!
the USA is up to its neck in Iraq and Afghanstan.

I dont think they will be dumb enough to look for another front line!?
also the world will fall for another lie by the USA and the UK?
an if they are worried of the spread of Nuclear power in the world, why dont they confront Koera???
according to their world appeal for the war:

Iraq may have WMD (they can find any and the inspectors did verify that there are none)
Koera does have them!!! (but they dont have enough Oil)

Whistle Blower wrote:

And Nuclear Power for Energy RIGHT we believe that, like Syria don't have a huge stockpile of Biological and Chemical Weapons

No, syria doesnt use such weapons!
Actually wasn't it SYRIA who went to the Security Councel back in 2003/4 to make the ME a free region of WMD??? Who opposed this project?

The USA and Israel!!! Surprise? not really cos they have WMD!

Syria is still calling for the project to be taken on board.

Whistle Blower wrote:

like they don't sponsor terrorism

We sponsor freedom fighters who fight for their land/freedom which is stolen by Israel. just like the USA sponsers the Zionist state.
there must be a balance.

Whistle Blower wrote:

and they don't oppress Lebanesse Christians and Muslims come to think of it....

Are we talking about the goverment or the peope here?
The goverment is corrupt in syria and I wound'nt argue with that.

Syria was asked to enter Lebanon to stop the civil war which broke out due to Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon. Syria did end the bloody civil war, we lost thousends of men there, we helped build lebanon to become what it is today we still provide them with electricity! however there are correuption in the Syrian goverment and with that come ower abusers.

Whistle Blower wrote:

What terrorist organisation are you a member of again ???

if you are trying to say I am a Terrorist then you better run before I blow my post in your FACE!!!! what a D**k

Whistle Blower wrote:

Again why so scared of Israel.........

Fear???....Kids holding rocks are fighting your fully armed soldiors (in Metal jeeps/tanks), where is the fear you call of? its the other way...as Israel never sleeps because of the fear of Palestinians!

Whistle Blower wrote:

Why the hatred.......

Would you love the person who:
-Stole your land based on a political movment , nothing to do with religion.
-Killed your family
-Deoprted 700,000 people from their land
-Treat the rightful people of land like S**t/ none-human.
-Destroy goverment infrastructure (Schools,hospitals, airport, religious
building christian and muslim)
-Cut off the people from the outside world.
-Organise assasinations of officials.

I can go on and on but that's it, enough f your Bull**** back to the topic.

Whistle Blower wrote:

Why are you not in your beloved ME if you love it so much.....???????

You want me out of Ireland??? I am an Irish/Syrian you numb-nuts!!!!

Whistle Blower

Israel calls for the destruction of Palestine and the arab world.



Show me were this is said I am intrigued Please do.....


Again your arguements are flawd but tis not your fault...Maybe use wikpeida or whatever you use fire ahead I am waiting :rolleyes:

Whistle Blower

Also Point to note the larger majoirty of Palestinians would rather be under Israeli rule for the following:

1. Israel respects all religions and faiths and does not kill people for that

2. The health system in Israel is heavily used by the Palestinians as it does not restrict anyone from using it.

3. Survey done recently in Jerusalem for Muslims there and they in the majority said they would rather live under the Israeli government than the other corrupt/ terrorist government

4. People after 1967 in both Gaza and the Westbank had more rights than they did under the Jordanians and the Egyptians both of which oppressed the people in both.

5. All races and religions have the right to freedom of expression.

6. Israel reacts, Israel wants peace

7. 95% of Lands in both PA, where Jewish Settlers have was legally bought from the inhaibtants, 5% was taken by Ultra Othrodox Settlers illegally

8. Israel never forced a single person into a single camp (which are cities not camps now) They were forced there by the Syrians/Jordanians and Egyptians.

9. Israel has a judicial system that is legitamate and fair.

10. The PA requires Israel for ecomonic stabilty as does Israel them for Labour.

11. The Biggest travel agent in Israel are Palestinian.

12. 35% of the IDF is Palestinian both Muslim and Christian.

13. The Golan Heights was taken as the syrians were constantly shelling CIVILIANS not SOLDIERS

14. Syria was yes asked into Lebanon but raped and pillaged it and drained it off resources and used it as an extended part of greater syria.


I could go on for days but at the end of the day Syria has WMD's of a non-nulcear nature this is a proven fact, check out the net and intelligence reports.. Iran is a fanatical country that could easily find itself Nuked...The Koreans are not really a threat and Israel is a nation that wants peace but every time they want a break someone else takes a stab at them.

Padraig Mor

Whistle Blower wrote:

Also Point to note the larger majoirty of Palestinians would rather be under Israeli rule for the following:.

I've already pointed out in the other thread that this a bare-faced lie - posting in a new thread does not make it true.
/apologies for the off-topicness.