6th Feb 1958

The Muppet

http://www.munich58.co.uk/apps/filedownloadlibrary/downloads.asp?PagePosition=2

jesus_thats_gre

Meh and meh.. Considerably worse disasters/accidents are not remembered...

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Meh and meh.. Considerably worse disasters/accidents are not remembered...

United fans will always remember Munich.

Mitch Connor

Manchester Evening News
January 28, 2006


THE Glazer family, or at least the sons of patriarch Malcolm, insist they are well aware of the traditions and the history of Manchester United.

I have no reason to doubt them - you don't spend that amount of money on anything without doing your homework on the purchase.

So it's safe to assume that the Glazer sons have either been told or have read about the blackest day in the history of the club they now own - the disaster at Munich Airport in February, 1958 which decimated the wonderful Busby Babes team.

However, what United's American owners are unlikely to have been told, or read, is what effect that infamous day had on this city as a whole and, in particular, on the wives and families of the Babes who died in that crash and on those who survived.

I could be of some small assistance to the Glazers about how the city of Manchester reacted to the Munich disaster. I was 13 at the time, a City fan then, as now. But as the news of that awful crash and the lives lost in it began to filter through, the colour of your scarf meant nothing. In an instant, Manchester became a united city. United in grief.

Weeping

Somehow it's shocking for a 13-year-old boy to see grown men weeping in the street. But that's what I witnessed on that day back in 1958. Those were hard times and they were hard men. Many would have risked their lives without flinching when fighting for their country in World War Two.

And yet that's what I saw that day. Grown men, some war veterans, some United fans, some City fans, some who perhaps had no interest in football at all. But they stood there on the streets in shocked silence reading about the dreadful event at Munich Airport on the front page of the Manchester Evening News, or the now defunct Evening Chronicle, with tears rolling down their cheeks. It was an image which burned its way into my memory for life.

So, even though I was an impressionable schoolboy at the time, I could - if asked - give the Glazer brothers a flavour of the overwhelming grief which brought this entire city to a standstill in the days following an unthinkable disaster which could so easily have destroyed one of the world's great football clubs.

What I couldn't tell the Glazers is what impact Munich had on both the families of those who died in that air-crash and the families of those who survived. I believe the Glazer brothers would welcome that information. The Munich disaster, as tragic as it was, is an essential part of the history of the club they now own. Some would say that Munich is THE most essential part in the story of Manchester United.

So on their next visit to this city I would strongly urge one of the Glazer boys to spend £14.99 on a new book - 'The Lost Babes: Manchester United and the Forgotten Victims of Munich' - about the Munich disaster which has been written by Mancunian author Jeff Connor and due to be published, fittingly enough, on February 6 - the 48th anniversary of that dreadful day.

Connor has interviewed survivors of the Munich Disaster and the families of those players who either perished in that crash or have since passed away. And their stories make painful, and at times, heart-rending reading.

Both the survivors of Munich and the families of those who survived are still embittered about the way they were treated by United in the aftermath of that disaster.

For what it's worth, I find it difficult to believe that United turned its back on those players and those families who feature so prominently in the book. I prefer to believe that the club were clumsy in their treatment.

It's my belief that in the weeks and months following the Munich crash, officials at Old Trafford didn't know how to handle the situation, because such a situation had never occurred before. There was no compensation culture back in 1958.

Even the insurance cover for the players involved in the crash was woefully inadequate.

United might argue with some justification that any wrongs which were committed against the players and the families involved in the Munich tragedy were righted in 1998 when the Munich testimonial match was played at Old Trafford between a United XI and a European XI.

Survivng players and the families of those who died at Munich did benefit financially from that match to the tune of £47,000, which was a tidy sum but not a life-changing one. But even that pay-out has not eased the bitterness of those players and families who still believe to this day that they were, and have, been badly let down by what Old Trafford officials like to refer to as a "family club".

Only yesterday I talked to one of the Munich survivors and he lost no time in reminding me that those pay-outs from the testimonial game in 1998 came out of the pockets of the Manchester public and not from United's coffers.

So, rightly or wrongly, amongst the Munich survivors and the families of those who perished there remains this deep well of bitterness and resentment against a club which they feel turned it's back on them in their greatest hour of need.

The Glazer brothers should read Connor's book about Munich and its aftermath. They might understand then how much the very name still means and why emotions are still so raw 48 years after the event.

And maybe when they read it, the Glazer boys might feel moved to pour oil on troubled waters. After all, this is now the 50th year since Sir Matt Busby first took his club into Europe. Why not dedicate a match at Old Trafford later this season to the few remaining survivors and the families of those players who died at Munich or who have died since?

Treat the players and those families to a day out at the Theatre of Dreams. Parade them around the pitch to show them that they've not been forgotten because Munich must NEVER be forgotten. How much would it cost the Glazers to put on a day like that? Loose change. And, whatever the cost, if it eases the pain which those survivors and families still clearly feel, it would be worth every penny.

http://website.ahfcchat.com/articles5.php

http://website.ahfcchat.com/articles6.php

http://website.ahfcchat.com/articles7.php

yop

RIP some great players lost there.

Big Nelly

If I was a Utd fan I would be very angry about that article, it is just using the trajedy to have a petty attack on the Glazer takeover. What has the owners of the club got anything to do with that day? thats a joke

Thanx 4 The Fish

I have no probelm with this thread TBH. Mourning is one thing, using it as Nelly said, as a stick to beat the Glazers with is a different matter.

Lemlin

This isn't just a United thing if memory serves me correctly. Weren't some Irish players killed in the crash?

The Muppet

Lemlin wrote:

This isn't just a United thing if memory serves me correctly. Weren't some Irish players killed in the crash?

Yes there was, Liam Whelan was Irish, he is buried here in Dublin.

Mitch Connor

The Flowers of Manchester

On one cold and bitter Thursday in Munich, Germany,
Eight great football stalwarts conceded victory,
Eight men who will never play again who met destruction there,
The flowers of British football, the flowers of Manchester

Matt Busby's boys were flying, returning from Belgrade,
This great United family, all masters of their trade,
The Pilot of the aircraft, the skipper Captain Thain,
Three times they tried to take off and twice returned back again.

The third time down the runaway disaster followed close,
There was a slush upon that runaway and the aircraft never rose,
It ploughed into the marshy, it broke, it overturned.
And eight of the team were killed when the blazing wreckage burned.

Roger Byrne and Tommy Taylor who were capped for England's side.
And Ireland's Billy Whelan and England's Geoff Bent died,
Mark Jones and Eddie colman, and David Pegg also,
they lost their lives as it ploughed on through the snow.

Big Duncan he went to, with an injury to his frame,
And Ireland's brave Jack Blanchflower will never play again,
The great Sir Matt Busby lay there, the father of his team
Three long months passed by before he walked again.

The trainer, coach and secretary, and a member of the crew,
Also eight sporting journalists who with United flew,
and one of them Big Swifty, who we'll ne'er forget,
the finest English 'keeper that ever graced the net.

Oh, England's finest football team its record truly great,
its proud successes mocked by a cruel turn of fate.
Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,
the flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester

The Fallen Players
Roger Byrne
Geoff Bent
Eddie Colman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan

Those Who Also Perished
Walter Crickmer
Bert Whalley
Tom Curry
Alf Clarke
Don Davies
George Follows
Tom Jackson
Archie Ledbrooke
Henry Rose
Eric Thompson
Frank Swift
Kenneth Rayment
Bela Miklos
Willie Satinoff
Tom Cable

Remembered always, with honour and undying admiration.

The Busby Babes.

Neil - AHFC.

PHB

Hey hey hey,
why don't the Man Utd fans who complain about too many liverpool posts not read liverpool threads,
and the Liverpool fans, who complain about Man Utd threads, not read Utd threads.

That was, everybody is happy.
Also considering the people complaining normally complain when the other side do it, its quite hilarious, so why don't you just not comment, its simple, the majority of the posters do it, yet a few can't seem to help themselves, on both sides.

---

Somehow there has been a sense of collective sadness built into the memory of all United fans, of all ages, about this event. Much like people talk about the past successes of their clubs, way before they were born, others also remember the past tragedies of their clubs.
It is what being a fan is all about.

So the next time Fowler puts up his five fingers, remember that you decided to bitch about the fact that people are still talking about the munich disaster. It's the exact same thing.

smemon

it's respect, one day in the year which we reflect upon a tragedy.

im sure everyone/most people has someone close to them thats dead- a grand father/ mother at least. you never forget the date that they died and most people go to anniversary masses or graveyards on that date.

not many people would be so heartless and inconsiderate as to get fed up with doing that one day out of 365.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I found this article a bit of a better read BTW.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/36/36800_united_legend_remembers_lost_pals.html

redspider

I have no problem with people remembering tragedies of the past from whatever club. The 1958 Munich air crash was not only an event that affected Man Utd, but it affected the football fraternity in England greatly as well as the general public, and there were of course linkages to Ireland. The 50th anniversary is only a couple of years away now in 2008 and I'm sure some form of fitting dedication will be made then.

redspider

Aquos76

@ Muppet

fair play to you for starting this thread. As you stated, yes it does mean alot to the many Man U fans on here. We will never forget.

gracehopper

redspider wrote:

I have no problem with people remembering tragedies of the past from whatever club. The 1958 Munich air crash was not only an event that affected Man Utd, but it affected the football fraternity in England greatly as well as the general public, and there were of course linkages to Ireland. The 50th anniversary is only a couple of years away now in 2008 and I'm sure some form of fitting dedication will be made then.

redspider

Well said!
I've avoided this thread as i dont feel that the debate contained within is worth entering. Fair play for pointing this out.

ZENER

Why have all the posts been edited ? There were 4 pages a while ago, now only 1. Why ?

It's good to be reminded of our mortality and reading the effect that his has on others. Some of the comments deleted - although strong - were how people felt about the matter. Deleting them doesn't change that . . .

ZEN

The Muppet

Aquos76 wrote:

@ Muppet

fair play to you for starting this thread. As you stated, yes it does mean alot to the many Man U fans on here. We will never forget.

Cheers we certainly will never forget.

@ Tauren The Flowers of Manchester. NIce post.

The thread is as it was intended now. Thanks to the Mod's {T4TF I Think} for cleaning it up.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thread back on topic.

Keyzer

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Thread back on topic.

Nice one for deleting my posts... Very dictator like...

Thanx 4 The Fish

Indeed it is, I am a harsh dictator who should burn in hell for allowing people to post about a tragedy in the history of the club they support without being flamed.

Green_Martian

R.I.P Busby Babes

Imagine what could have been if that day never happened....................

cournioni

Gkelly2002 wrote:

R.I.P Busby Babes

Imagine what could have been if that day never happened....................

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

R.I.P.