Off sick and cant get back to work, due to being bullied.

LegacyUser

Looking for some advice here, long story but I’ll keep it short, I work for the government low grade job, and I’ve been off sick since march 2005,
The resin for being off sick is that i was being bullied at work by a person in a higher grade.
During that time off I put in for a transfer and am still waiting, I also have been talking to the union rep, and he’s trying to get me back into work,
However I don’t want to return to the place I was in, instead I want to be placed in another section, but the HR department are saying there is no openings
Anywhere just the place I was in. ie; going back to my old job with the same person who bullied me.

(The union know I was being bullied but I told them I not taking action as I don’t want to go down that road.)

I’ve told the union I cant go back there as I’m afraid and I know I cant face that person everyday, but the union said to go back there and wait until your transfer comes in.
I asked the union rep if the HR could temporary place me somewhere else until my transfer comes in. they said HR cant do that.

I don’t know what I’m going to do as I know I cant return the my current place, the very thought of it makes me suffer from panic attacks.
All I want is to go back to work in a new section work from 9 until 5 and go home, with new faces and without being bullied, / that I can face but not going back to my old section. I wouldn’t even be able to walk in the door.

My GP will sign the return letter for me to return to work, that’s ok, but my half pay will run out in march 06 leaving me on €1.60 to live on per week, and I’ll have no money really. I’d never be able to pay my bills.

I don’t know what I’m going to do as I’m not strong enough to return to the same section I was in. cant face that person.

Can anyone help me with some advice.

Thank you.

Victor

It does seem odd that you would be put back with your tormentor.

Have you any indication as to when your complaint will be resolved?

Its possible you will be entiled to Disability Benefit and some other allowances, but I suspect the DB régime may be different for government employees.

---

Is it worth your while asking for an early decentralisation?

secret_squirrel

From reading your post its not clear whether you have ever officially reported the bully to you HR people?

If you havent - you should think about doing so - how do you expect them to act on a transfer request speedily otherwise?

Usually in these sort of situations there is a process to be gone through. You have to find the courage to do this - otherwise he/she will get away with bullying other people.

CathyMoran

Please feel free to pm smccarrick and myself.

Canis Lupus

You don't sound to me like you enjoy being bullied and yet you fail to report it officially.

Personally I'm inclined to say you're a victim only cos you allow yourself to be. You have a RIGHT to work in an environment free of bullying and if you're in a union then HR will have to act.

Basically your choices are stay off work

or

Go back to work and stop being a fúcking doormat and report the person and get the problem sorted!

LegacyUser

I did report the bullying, I write a detailed letter to the union months ago, and I had a meeting with them, during that meeting they said theirs two sides to any story and
if they where to do anything to help me I would have to take the matter further, by that: the person I named would be interviewed and told about what I said. Basically it would be my word against that persons. And I had just my word on what happened, I had on evidence. The union advised me not to go down that road,

I also had a meeting with the operational health department, and the union and my boss where there, with the doctor, after the meeting they agreed I couldn’t return to my old section, and a transfer would be best, however I’m still waiting and I’m number 10 on the transfer list, this means I will be waiting ages before being placed.
As the transfers are going slowly.

As for > reporting the person and get the problem sorted! At the time I did report the person and I was told by the boss at the time that there is a chain of command and I would have to follow it, you see the main part of the bullying was that person got me to do there work running reports
That I wasn’t ment to do, and I did stand up for my self but the person kept on at me day in day out, hassling when we where alone in the office.
So no one could witness anything.

I couldn’t take any more I had a breakdown, and I’ve been off since, taking ant depressants.

I cant go back there and face that person again, I just want to start some where new.
As for HR I don’t think they know about the bullying as the union are taking on by behalf.

Canis Lupus

The guy was hassling you in what way? Also getting you to run reports you weren't supposed to do? Yet you still did it?

You just sound like the office victim to me. The person you find every now and then who just can't say no, it's not a difficult word. When my boss asks me to do something she should do I'll do it if I have time as you do with bosses, if not I say I'm too busy. If it was a case that she was overloading me I'd raise the matter at a meeting. If nothing was actioned I'd keep raising the issue and keep raising the issue and keep doing it till something was done.

There was a girl in my old job who got bullied by the little hitler supervisor we had till she told management, no mention of her word versus supervisors word. Management had a chat with both of them and the supervisor wasn't a problem again.

Has management at ANY time talken to the person you have an issue with?

You need to assert yourself and if you can't well, lifes tough, maybe the anti depressants will help you feel better.

flanzer

I work in the semi-state myself and this sort of thing makes me livid :mad: Obviously government departments are the same! Most of the time the bully gets away with it due to immense protection that is present within the public sector. They also usually hang out within a group that contains some other bullys.

All this "chain of command" that you've been fed is basically telling you that "your really not going to get anywhere" by taking it any further and is a method to put you off taking it any further.....This is a load of bullsh1t in my opinion.

My advise is :
1) Contact you're local TD. They've usually have an inside track into all matters in the public sector.
2) Failing that, contact a solicitor and look for advise (let you're union know though)

Best of luck with everything and keep the head up!

Esel

Get info on the Bullying and Harassment/Grievance Procedures from your Employee Assistance Officer or from your union.

Writing to the union is not good enough.

There is a formal procedure to be followed. Follow it. Stand up for yourself.

Try to work up the courage to return to work. This person may not act in the same way as before.

Good luck.

coolhandluke

That sounds about right from Guest73,in my place you cannot transfer either while on sick leave,you must return to work first.

LegacyUser

flanzer wrote:

I work in the semi-state myself and this sort of thing makes me livid :mad: Obviously government departments are the same! Most of the time the bully gets away with it due to immense protection that is present within the public sector. They also usually hang out within a group that contains some other bullys.

All this "chain of command" that you've been fed is basically telling you that "your really not going to get anywhere" by taking it any further and is a method to put you off taking it any further.....This is a load of bullsh1t in my opinion.

My advise is :
1) Contact you're local TD. They've usually have an inside track into all matters in the public sector.
2) Failing that, contact a solicitor and look for advise (let you're union know though)

Best of luck with everything and keep the head up!

You got it in one, the public sector have people who are on power trips, and stick together in groups.

It's not like the private sector.

i think i contact the local TD, and see how i get on.

Archeron

if you do return to work, and the bullying when you're alone with this person keeps up, invest in one of those little dictaphone / voice recorders. Keep it always in your pocket, and when the abuse starts, just quietly click record. At least that way, you'll have some evidence of the abuse you're suffering, should you ever need it.

StephenInsane

Is this male on female bullying? If so it's a disgrace. But if you're a bloke, man up and tell the guy to f**k off.

RuthC

Would it not be possible for you to just get a new job and move on? All this hanging round at home can't be good for you - no wonder you're on anti depressents! You could be waiting for ages for a transfer.
Also who's the say it won't happen in the new place, maybe you could talk to someone about learning some techniques on how to deal with these type of people.
I haven't had the same problem as you but I've often moved job cos I don't get on so well with the people above me and I'm just learning now that it's up to me to learn how to deal with that.
I would think about what the best thing for yourself is and that may be just moving on. Or not.

muppetkiller

I'm I the only one here thinking "get a different Job ?"
Get out there...there's hundreds of jobs out there..
Unless your sticking with your current role because of the perks there's no reason for you to stay in it.

It's only work ! If you not happy in it get out ...very simple..

Having said that you can meet these muppets everywhere...time to stand up for yourself me thinks...
but a fresh start might do you the world of good.

xzanti

Yeah Id have to say get a new job too... The longer you're out of work the harder it'll be for you to get something new... Why don’t you see this as a new beginning rather than a tragedy...? I don’t envy your situation but I think I would definitely haul ass out of there if it was me... Do you have any skills or qualifications? If not then it might be an idea to sign up for a training course in something that interests you...

Miss Fluff

muppetkiller wrote:

I'm I the only one here thinking "get a different Job ?"
Get out there...there's hundreds of jobs out there..
Unless your sticking with your current role because of the perks there's no reason for you to stay in it.

Agreed. I don't think it's going to help you potentially running into this person every day at work. There are literally tonnes of other roles out there so why don't you make a fresh start and put this down to a bad experience and move on with your life?

Hmm_Messiah

I don't understand how this bullying could take place in the environment I am familiar with in Public Servie, how are you so often alone ?

Go back to work. When you step in door you may feel terrible (panic) but you can make it so you feel exhilirated knowing you are getting this sorted.

The dictaphone thing is an idea if you work isolated
Otherwise request that its possible you are not ever alone with some one(the bully)

Record every incidence of bullying, asking you to do their job. Let them see you record it. If he asks somethign uncceptable pick up the phone there and then and request clarity from a superior.

Even if the HR dept can't identify bullying they should not return you to the same situation; awaiting transfer they might ask some one else to be your next in command.

The union may know best about whether to progree or not but being off work a year, and panic attacks from same is unacceptable. Why leave a PS job over some ***** ? Assert yourself, would one colleague not support you (in being assertive not in reporting case?)

Is it only in work you find this harassment?

I get some crap at work and I find email a great thing. I report it to my superior saying "don't want to make a big thing of this but its frustrating when ____ & ____happens" Being able to vent is a help, and there is a historical record if things develop.

Burts Bee

Yeah I'd use the time you have off constructively. Could you do a FAS course or some type of evening course. People need to be active! Try and also make sure you are exercising well and eating well. The anti-depressents will get you out of a funk but they won't solve the problem, use this time to maybe have a look at other career options etc

magpie

You should be able to land yourself an administrative/clerical job in the private sector easily enough - register your cv with a few agencies. Or is it important that you continue to work in the civil service for some reason?

The Corinthian

TBH, a lot of this appears to stem from your own character. You avoid confrontation, and most likely have a number of self esteem issues, and this has meant that your natural reaction to such situations is to run away from them rather than deal with them. Let’s face it, a month to go before the half-pay runs out and now you’re talking about doing something about it? What exactly have you done in the last year?

I’m sorry if the above sounds a little harsh, but you have to realise that conflict cannot always be avoided and problems cannot always be ignored.

StephenInsane wrote:

Is this male on female bullying? If so it's a disgrace. But if you're a bloke, man up and tell the guy to f**k off.

Why couldn't a woman do that? Afraid she'd break if she tried?

StephenInsane

The Corinthian wrote:

Why couldn't a woman do that? Afraid she'd break if she tried?

Well I'm a man so I can only talk from a man's perspective. I would be a very unwise person who treated me with disrespect.

The Corinthian

StephenInsane wrote:

Well I'm a man so I can only talk from a man's perspective.

Nice attempt at backtracking, but actually you were talking from a chauvinist’s perspective

I would be a very unwise person who treated me with disrespect.

Or simply a person who didn’t respect you very much.

Megatron

I'm honestly shocked at the amount of "Find a new job" replies.

Sorry for all we know this is the dream job of the OP.

I'd hash it out with the Union, but as 1 poster already said, speak with a lawer.

You shouldn't be put in a situation where your health ( mental or otherwise) is being put at risk. If they still refuse, then that's where the lawyer would come in .


As for recording the conversation, It can't be used as evidence in a court of law if the person being recorded doesn't know it's being recorded or objects to it being recorded. ( As far as i know)

tonyinuae

I can't agree with those who say find another job - then the bastard has won and you're just chickening out! How could you live with yourself knowing you let that happen?

This is perhaps only the first of many challenges that life, depend upon it, is going to throw your way. The idea is to deal with it, solve the issue, don't try to avoid it. If you do escape, it's just going to pop up again further along the road.

All kinds of things pop into my head - laxatives in his/her tea, dark talk about some of the rather criminal friends you have who stop at nothing for those they owe a favour, to...:D you get the idea! Bullies are just cowards who flinch when faced up to, they only continue with their behaviour because people ALLOW them to get away with it.

Be creative - have a chat with all your friends about ways you can face this person down. Maybe you could google 'bullying in the workplace' or look up self-assertion manuals - anything just to act and stand up for yourself. The determination and decision to do it, even if you don't exactly know how, is half the battle, actually more than half!

Walk tall, walk proud and stare the bastard down!

rmacm

xzanti wrote:

Yeah Id have to say get a new job too... The longer you're out of work the harder it'll be for you to get something new

Xzanti is right Guest73 the harder you remain out of work the harder you'll find it to get back into it. I know a person who was in a similar situation to what your in but all he wanted was a change in supervisor and to no longer have to report to the person who was bullying him.

My Dad is a union shop steward for a public sector body so if you want any advice that way feel free to send a PM. Hope it works out well for you in the end.

Cheers
Rory

muppetkiller

tonyinuae wrote:

I can't agree with those who say find another job - then the bastard has won and you're just chickening out! How could you live with yourself knowing you let that happen?

It would appear that with the OP being on Anti-Depressants that confronting this person wouldn't exactly be an easy option. I agree if it was me I'd be opening a can of legal whoop ass on him but we have to respect the persons situation.
Maybe consult a Solicitor...

sham69

I have to say I am horrified to hear this. I really think you need to take things further though, leaving the job would be giving in. I know its probably easy for all of us to give you advice and tell you to stand your ground but we don't know you as a person and really don't understand exactly what you are going through. I really don't know what else to say apart from I am sorry and that if there anything I can do (which i doubt) just say the word.
Best of luck with it all..

flanzer

I agree with most of the previous posters. You really do need to go back to work. I might be the thought of going back that is unnerving you but be strong.

When you do go back, take a log or diary of all the bullying events or grievances you might have on a day to day basis (Bite the lip if they do happen). Not only will it help yourself to record it, if you do have to go to the LRC, you'll have ample evidence to fire back at them!!!

The Corinthian

muppetkiller wrote:

I agree if it was me I'd be opening a can of legal whoop ass on him but we have to respect the persons situation.

I don’t know if there’s all that much the OP can do about this particular situation. They’ve let the matter drag on far to long for them to return and retain even a semblance of respect from the other co-workers. Legally, procrastinating never helps either, so a solicitor may tell the OP that they don’t have much of a leg to stand on (don’t take my word on it though - ask a Solicitor). And financially, unless they go out and get another job or grin and bare it and return to work, they’re pretty much screwed.

However, none of this is the real problem - but I’ll get to this in a minute.

In their situation I would, as others have, suggest seeking legal advice. If they recommend that they have a case and you choose to go for it then they won’t be retuning to work anytime soon. If that’s the case they’ll have to find an alternative source of income - even if it’s just working in a bar.

If a solicitor recommends against or they decides that they do not wish to pursue legal action, then they have the option to return to work and peruse the matter internally (or not). After a year, many of their co-workers will probably be of the opinion that they’re simply a nut job - even if they agree about their boss being a bully (after all, they didn’t have a breakdown, the OP did). Combine that with the fact that their boss will still be there and they’re frankly going to be in for a hard time and, realistically, I doubt that they are psychologically capable of that - which returns to their need to find that alternative source of income.

So, while some are arguing that the OP should go up and face your former boss, I’d probably not bother with that recommendation. I’m sure they would have the capacity to do that, but the OP don’t - which brings us to the real problem.

As I’ve already said, the OP has procrastinated for a year and their present modus operandus is avoidance of problems. This inability to confront problems is also central to why they were allegedly bullied - bullies don’t target people who can defend themselves, after all.

I say allegedly because some people are more aggressive by nature than others. Put a very aggressive person next to a very passive person and any interaction will end up being perceived as bullying. I’m not saying that this is what happened in their case, only that the OP appears to fit the passive profile.

The OP needs to deal with their procrastination and avoidance of issues. They have to improve their self-esteem and assertiveness. If not, regardless of how this particular situation pans out, they are going to find themselves repeatedly in other similar scenarios in the future.

StephenInsane

Get a life Cointhian, you attention seeking muppet.

Canis Lupus

StephenInsane wrote:

Get a life Cointhian, you attention seeking muppet.

That sort of thing gets you banned in here..... Not sure why.....

Actually I agree with Cor. Never originally noticed the fact it's been a year almost since OP has been in work, damn speed reading....

muppetkiller

StephenInsane I don't know where your comin from with that attack...(at least back it up if you have anything to say)

The fact that it has gone on now for so long does make it very difficult to return to the same department...Maybe there can be some legal help to get you into another department quicker due to the inaction on the part of the Union and your employers..

Either way best of luck in the Future

Binomate

Hold your head up high and go and face the music. Go back to work but don't let him bully you. Things don't have to be nice between you and him. Just constantly keep in mind that you will be out of there as soon as your transfer comes through.

StephenInsane

muppetkiller wrote:

StephenInsane I don't know where your comin from with that attack...(at least back it up if you have anything to say)

That wasn't in reply to his corinthian's responce to OP, it was in reply to his reasonless attacks on me.

Nevyn

StephenInsane banned for 1 week for personal abuse.

Gender is not a factor is this. the abilty to stand up for ones self and not let people inpinge on you is not inhertant or limited to either gender.

secret_squirrel

Guest73 wrote:

You got it in one, the public sector have people who are on power trips, and stick together in groups.

It's not like the private sector.

i think i contact the local TD, and see how i get on.

I think you are part of the problem tbh. I'll ask you again. How do you expect your management to take any action if you dont raise a formal complaint? You say the union advised you not too? Did they give any reasons?
How do you expect them to fast track your transfer without a good official reason??

The fact of the matter is that you are considering all these external measures when you have not take all the internal measures you could. As TC said I think you and your meek attitude are part of the problem.

I would think external bodies (TD's solictors etc) would advise you that you have weakened your own case by not pushing things internally.

Victor

StephenInsane wrote:

Is this male on female bullying? If so it's a disgrace. But if you're a bloke, man up and tell the guy to f**k off.

Some men are intimidated by women. Because this is considered unusual the person is in a particularly bad position of being bullied and nobody will offer assistance.

Its a lot more patronising than "boys don't cry".

TempestSabre

Guest73 wrote:

You got it in one, the public sector have people who are on power trips, and stick together in groups. It's not like the private sector.....

In fairness both private and public sectors are very similar. You'll meet bullies and difficult situations in both. But if anything the public sector is much fairer. However bullying is a very hard thing to deal with, but I would agree with the other posters that you should pursue to it end internally before going elsewhere. Also look at building your confidence and ability to deal with difficult people.

LegacyUser

flanzer wrote:

I work in the semi-state myself and this sort of thing makes me livid :mad: Obviously government departments are the same! Most of the time the bully gets away with it due to immense protection that is present within the public sector. They also usually hang out within a group that contains some other bullys.

All this "chain of command" that you've been fed is basically telling you that "your really not going to get anywhere" by taking it any further and is a method to put you off taking it any further.....This is a load of bullsh1t in my opinion.

My advise is :
1) Contact you're local TD. They've usually have an inside track into all matters in the public sector.
2) Failing that, contact a solicitor and look for advise (let you're union know though)

Best of luck with everything and keep the head up!

I tuck your advice and contacted the TD’s Office, I also phoned a family friend who’s in with TD’s, he contacted them to on my behalf..
This all happened about two weeks ago, I received a TD letter today , saying they have made representations on my behalf, and will contact me soon.
Also about two weeks ago, I write a letter to the HR Department, employee relations Manager, to request a meeting, in order to explain why I feel i
Can’t return to the section I was in, he contacted me, and set up a meeting for next week.

All sounds fine?

All that aside, My main concern is >as I go off pay on the 3rd of march, I’ll have to say next week at the meeting in HR that I have to return to work soon “now”,
And I’m not feeling confident that they’ll place me else where, I have a feeling that they’ll be adamant in placing back in my old section, and continue telling me there’s
Currently no where else to place me right now.

Also I’m not feeling confident about the TD’s office being able to help me ether, based on knowing the public sector as I do,
I just feel like know one cares when you’re a low grade on your own.

tirl

Hi Guest,
Youi work for a government dept and it does not matter what your position is, there are procedures that have to be followed if a complaint is made, and you have to be taken seriously....make sure you go through it all at the meeting. Write everything down before the meeting in case you forget anything, take a few deep breaths, get some rescu remedy at the chemist and just go through it all. Good luck

eth0_

Why won't you let action be taken against the bully? That's very selfish on your part. You know he/she will start bullying someone else once you leave.

And your moving departments will make him think he's 'won' just as much as if you left the civil service completely.

I also don't understand why you left this right until the last minute to consider your position!

Why can't the union get you bumped up the list to be transferred? You have a breakdown and the fact you're on anti-depressants to use in your favour . Surely those 10 people in front of you can't ALL be moving because they're being bullied, that would be an epidemic of bullying within the civil service.

SxE Punk

Sue them for constructive dismissal, thats all I'm sayin.

secret_squirrel

Guest73 wrote:

I just feel like know one cares when you’re a low grade on your own.

Sorry to be harsh, but if you behave like a doormat you get treated like one - it has nothing to do with a low grade or not.

SxE Punk wrote:

Sue them for constructive dismissal, thats all I'm sayin.

Its hardly constructive dismissal if the OP hasnt followed the correct rules and made an official complaint.

turbot

Having worked with two people who faced similar issues, the unfortunate psychological underplay is that this bully has ways of getting to you.

Fortunately this can be changed ... but you have to do lots of work on yourself. So figure out what is going on inside you that is letting this happen, and seek specialist help if thats what you need.

Remember, not everyone has this problem with this person. You do. Therefore its something you are doing / the way you think / the way you interact that permits this person to bully you. So stand up for yourself... strategically.

I'd say, if this has got so bad you've taken many months off work and you had a breakdown, what you really need to do is to beat the bully. One on one; this will give you the most personal benefit, instead of involving outside parties.

You need to outplay the bully. You need to scare whoever this person is and be the reason why he'll never treat anyone else the way he's treated you.

Whether or not you think you can outplay the bully, I'm sure your confident that the collective intelligence and insight of the people on boards could devise all manner of ways to help you deal with this person. And I'm talking legally... and in ways you can get away with.

What would this bully have to know about you or experience from you that would make him/her frightened were you to return to work?

How could you behave around this person to totally freak them out?

How could you convince the bully that after your breakdown, you became a complete psycho? Whats the weirdest thing you could do around this person you can think of?

What could you tell this bully that would really freak the bully out? How would you have to say it? Who would you have to know?

Please describe this bully in more detail. How does the bully get to you?
And instead of using the word bully.... change the way you refer to this person to be something that gives you more personal power. I want that word to come from you. Give this person a new label that represents the beginning of your new mental relationship with this person.

And if they are a guy; imagine them in a ballerina outfit trying to bully you.

And if they are female; imagine them with some kind of mistakenly dyed hair, so they look like a low quality punk.

This is your life after all.

Answer these questions and lets see where you get to.

eth0_

SxE Punk wrote:

Sue them for constructive dismissal, thats all I'm sayin.

I think HR are doing all they can to help this person, and they can't do a lot if she is still refusing to even let them take action against the bully!