Socialist Embaressments

rainbow kirby

Erm, some of our courses are 45-50% continuous assessment already... and we're not modularised yet.

mloc

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Modularisation and semestarisation impact these people more so than others...

...Now whether or not it should or shouldnt be introduced, modularisation will effect these people and they have a right to protest. Commerce was always semesterised and modularised (though first yr is kinda "normal")
IMO first yr students shouldnt have to deal with xmas exams as it takes away from the "college experience"

Firstly, I think its fair to say that the people I mentioned in the my first post are predominantly not first years and almost certainly not in commerce. Modularisation was proposed long before the academic year and therefore first years knew what to expect, all information was posted on the UCD website and I believe it is the responsability of the student to be informed of his or her course details. First years have no grounds to protest. Modularisation went ahead for 1st year undergraduates with no major changes from advertised plans. Therefore, you're argument as to whether 1st year should be modularised or not is rendered void; the fact is the system is in place and those entering the course knew what they were "getting themselves into". If they weren't aware, that is entirely thier fault.

As for other years, the fact remains that college semistisation and modularisation is all part of a progress towards to a more modern college architecture. Progress, of course, that is vital to the survival of UCD as
a competitive educational institution globally. And the reality is, right now, on a global scale, we rank quite poorly compared to what our potential might be.

This is a black and white matter. The majority of the protesters on the march were there to cause trouble, make a nuisance of themselves, and not to protest against any issue they knew anything about. Their right to protest is not in question. Their responsibility to act in a manner that is both respectable and reasonable is.

Red Alert

No i don't agree. When you read the official CAO handbook, it details requirements and content of your chosen courses. Current 2nd and 3rd years signed up to non-modularized courses. They signed up to courses for the most part not having bi-annual exams. The college is now saying that they won't get what they signed up for.

If this is all about UCD's long term strategy, why not let the natural wastage of 2 years take non-modular people out of the system?

mloc

Red Alert wrote:

No i don't agree. When you read the official CAO handbook, it details requirements and content of your chosen courses.

The CAO handbook provides only basic outlines of courses. It is certainly not something that should be relied on as the sole source of information regarding a course that will take up at least 3 years of your life.

Current 2nd and 3rd years signed up to non-modularized courses. They signed up to courses for the most part not having bi-annual exams. The college is now saying that they won't get what they signed up for.

Current 2nd and 3rd years signed up to non-modularised courses only by default. They were not expressly non-modularised and are, of course, subject to change.

Because students are forced to study more intensely throughout the year, the quality of the education and scope of courses can be vastly improved. It seems a lot of so called students find it objectionable that they're losing out on spending the first 6 months of each year hammered. Get real. Universities are there to educate, no to cater to those who would rather spend their time hammered than work towards their degree.

Irish students need to wake up to the reality that they are getting 3rd level education far easier than in most similiarly developed nations throughtout the world. The complaints against registration fees, delayed grants etc. are negligable compared to the systems in place in other countries leaving graduates with enormous debts of several hundred thousand euro, before working a single day. It's about time we learned to appreciate the system we have and tried to make the most of it, and protest in a totally inappropriate manner about schemes being put in place to maximise the value of our degrees.

Red Alert

you mean appreciate the system we *had* before 'The Man' decided he was going to change it. so what if they spend the first six months getting hammered, i don't care and i don't even think many staff members give a toss either. it's their first freedom away from school and before they'll have to have a real job so they might as well be let enjoy it.

arbeitsscheuer

Plus modularisation does not "maximise the value of our degrees."

It makes your degree portray you as some kind of useless jack of all trades, master of none. Added to this is the likelihood that Semesterisation will make it easier, not harder, to get a degree, and you end up with a much worse system than we had.

I mean jesus, it's not as if there weren't enuff fcukin people gettin Degrees without shag-all work...

mloc

Red Alert wrote:

you mean appreciate the system we *had* before 'The Man' decided he was going to change it. so what if they spend the first six months getting hammered, i don't care and i don't even think many staff members give a toss either. it's their first freedom away from school and before they'll have to have a real job so they might as well be let enjoy it.

Ok, now you're just being silly. I'm not going to argue with someone who uses the term "the man". And of course, socialising is an important part of college life, but we are not provided with cheap education so we can squander away tax payers money for half the year.

SebtheBum wrote:

Plus modularisation does not "maximise the value of our degrees."

It makes your degree portray you as some kind of useless jack of all trades, master of none.

It's clear you have, like most of these protesters, no real understanding of the modularisation system. While there is an OPTION to pick a unit unrelated to your core units, as a sort of change of scenary, this is only a secondary benefit.

Primarily, it provides departments with the autonomy the regulate and streamline the course material so that lectures can be more easily scheduled, lecturers can be given more freedom within their course work, and a more structured approach to departmentalisation can be utilized.

Most students haven't a clue what goes on on the administrative side of colleges. Enormous amounts of time and effort are required to keep a population of over 20,000 people working smoothly. Modularisation helps make this easier and enables changes to be made to specific courses and timetables without causing fallout in other course areas. Modularisation also unlocks huge possibilities for keeping courses up to date, which is increasingly important in many academic areas.

Red Alert

mloc wrote:

I'm not going to argue with someone who uses the term "the man".

That's ok, i'll refer to him in future posts as his full administrative title, Professor Hugh Brady. (Any slashdotters here know the PHB acronym?)

mloc wrote:

And of course, socialising is an important part of college life, but we are not provided with cheap education so we can squander away tax payers money for half the year.

I have talked to people involved in organising sports clubs who say modularisation and its accompanying exams have decimated participation in them. Universitys aren't supposed to be an educational sausage-factory. The early onset of exam pressure also stops the broadening of interests, such as going to plays, quizzes, political parties, gigs in addition to the pub.

mloc wrote:

It's clear you have, like most of these protesters, no real understanding of the modularisation system. While there is an OPTION to pick a unit unrelated to your core units, as a sort of change of scenary, this is only a secondary benefit.

What exactly is your experience of a modularisation system? Have you heard the ad that was on the national and local radio stations over the past few weeks - it didn't appear to be a 'secondary' benefit.

mloc wrote:

Primarily, it provides departments with the autonomy the regulate and streamline the course material so that lectures can be more easily scheduled, lecturers can be given more freedom within their course work, and a more structured approach to departmentalisation can be utilized.

so instead of the usual four lecture in the morning and four/lab in the afternoon we end up with people for example not having a lunchbreak and then having 2 days off. The course material is streamlined to an extent, but it means courses have to be pedantically self contained. For example could you assume in an advanced Mechanics course that somebody has studied the Laplace Transform? Answer is it's not absolutely necessary but you'd also have a long slog at the calculations if you hadn't done it.

mloc wrote:

Most students haven't a clue what goes on on the administrative side of colleges. Enormous amounts of time and effort are required to keep a population of over 20,000 people working smoothly. Modularisation helps make this easier and enables changes to be made to specific courses and timetables without causing fallout in other course areas. Modularisation also unlocks huge possibilities for keeping courses up to date, which is increasingly important in many academic areas.

Do you hold an administrative post in the college? The college has been running smoothly from the 1960's when my folks were there and seemed to be running smoothly when i came first too. I never heard tell of situations like people not being registered for courses or not understanding the SIS's rather cryptic registration process. Presumably fixed content courses are easier to manage centrally than dynamic ones. There's a known finite number of paths one can take to get their degree under the old system. Under the new one it's.... someone else can do the maths.

mloc

Red Alert wrote:

The early onset of exam pressure also stops the broadening of interests, such as going to plays, quizzes, political parties, gigs in addition to the pub.

Stops? I think anyone can manage a balanced attitude to college life with the modularisation system. In fact, with most college undergraduates working on a similar schedule, societies and clubs will find it easier to organise events and activities involving more students. This will hopefully remove the imbalance where arts and related students, with significantly lower hours per week, tended to dominate such activities.

Red Alert wrote:

Have you heard the ad that was on the national and local radio stations over the past few weeks - it didn't appear to be a 'secondary' benefit.

Concepts advertised on radio are designed to get more secondary school leavers interested in a college. Advertising this extra choice, however minimal, is what generates this interest in a college. Advertising the advantage to administrative staff wouldn't raise CAO entrance numbers!

Red Alert wrote:

The course material is streamlined to an extent, but it means courses have to be pedantically self contained. For example could you assume in an advanced Mechanics course that somebody has studied the Laplace Transform?

This is not the case. As departments have control over which units are chosen in the majority of cases, and records over which units have been taken already, it is easy to establish what content has already been covered. For the same reason, courses need not to be self contained. Courses can complement each other just the same as before. In most years after year one, the choice of units on the part of the student is limited to one or two at most, usually from a list of units all closely related to the core subject matter. This enables students to further thier knowledge in their own field of study, into further detail of areas they are particularly interested in.

Red Alert wrote:

Presumably fixed content courses are easier to manage centrally than dynamic ones.

As each unit becomes essentially a building block in the scheme of a course, it is easier to manipulate these blocks than to manage individual classes. The attribution of resources such as lecture theatres and labs is easier to manage.

In reality, the actual impact of modularisation (as opposed to semesterisation) is minimal to the student and is primarily an administrative evolution. Semesterisation on the other hand, affects the student more. However, one must remember, having half of exams completed by christmas greatly lightens the load at the summer. It also lessens the need to cram large amounts of information, a proven disaster when it comes to information retention. First year exams, in general, when compared to later years are comparitively easy and introductory, and do not greately impare a student from maintaining a balanced social life.

My original point seems to be lost in all of this. I was originally concerned that the behaviour of the protesters was irresponsible and only served to damage their causes by presenting them as childish louts.

Jonny Arson

Having experienced both the non-modularised and modularised systems I can safely say.....

simple old system > modularised/semesterised system

Degrees are becoming too makey upey now, students are doing electives and minors in first year subjects that they will never get a degree or anything in general out of.

Simplicity is the key, modularisation is too confusing regarding what you can do in 2nd/3rd year, tutorials etc.

I feel to dump exams on 1st years at Christmas isn't a good thing considering many students take absolutely forever to settle into the college way of education and life.

Personally I feel the degree I'm doing now in comparison to what I was doing last year is off a lesser value. Modularisation gives way to many options, yes it may broaden your ''horizons'' a bit but simply I feel under this new system my degree is only going to be looked at no more than a glorified Leaving Cert.

rainbow kirby

Well after 4 years in college... the whole modularisation thing will be very strange next year! I have to say though, I'm in favour of semesterisation. I don't handle exam pressure particularly well, and to have 4 of my 8 exams done already (and to know I'm carrying a 2.1 average ) is quite handy.

BleakestH

Firespinner wrote:

Bertie can walk up Grafton street with only one guard but he has to have a platoon with him when he visits UCD. It is an embaressment. Only about 12 pinkos will turn up, they will yell and act the yob, then go smoke hash and clap each other on the back, convinced that they have somehow changed something, afterwards going on to plot their next brilliant sceme. Why do we pretend that these gob****es represent anyone. They give students a bad name. They make me embarressed for UCD.
Why can't they just get over themselves and grow up?

Not half as embarrassing as your inability to spell mate.

The_Minister

BleakestH wrote:

Not half as embarrassing as your inability to spell mate.

It has generally been concluded in other discussions that having to resort to petty jibes about spelling is the last resort of the lost and clueless.
Still, if you must, please feel free to spellcheck every post in the forum.

Chinafoot

Firespinner wrote:

It has generally been concluded in other discussions that having to resort to petty jibes about spelling is the last resort of the lost and clueless.

But not for generalising and stereotyping?

Waltons

BleakestH wrote:

Not half as embarrassing as your inability to spell mate.

I don't think he attempted to spell "mate" at all :v:

Pythia

Waltons wrote:

I don't think he attempted to spell "mate" at all :v:

Rep ++ for you.

Time Magazine

Pythia wrote:

Rep ++ for you.

You're a socialist aren't ya Rach?

scop

Angry Banana wrote:

You're a socialist aren't ya Rach?

If Bertie is a socialist, well by golly, anything south of the Rhine is too.

The_Minister

peachypants wrote:

But not for generalising and stereotyping?

I am talking about to specific a group for it to be either. Its just true. Ah well, even the gene pool has to have dregs......


Reminded me of what a friend once started a speech with in a debate "I don't want to stereotype, so i'll just generalise":D

The_Minister

besides its a lot more petty to correct someones spelling unless it makes it illegible.

pilson

Incorrect spelling and confusing words such as 'too' with 'to' does in fact make your posts -harder- to follow.
gene pool dregs? Just because the person pointed out that you come across as illiterate? A bit harsh and ignorant. chill out.

pilson

rainbow kirby wrote:

to have 4 of my 8 exams done already

I would have loved to do exams at xmas in first year. Revising 5 units that you have not touched in 5 months is painful.

GusherING

I have to say I'm disappointed with the fact that people saw the modularisation protest as a bunch of people acting like criminals. I am also disappointed that you tar everyone with the same brush as socialists. As one who has been actively involved in the whole modualrisation campaign, I refute both those allegations. I'm by no means at all on the far left and I absolutely abhor violence and thuggishness. I also know what I'm talking about when the subject is modualrisation, so I resent mloc's patronising tone of post. That said, I'm fairly ageeable to the idea that those on the far left like to jump on too many bandwagons sometimes. I'm a normal student, fairly conservative when it comes to a lot of things. All I wanted was the students interests best served in the process of modularisation.

Today the final details were worked out about how modularisation will affect 3rd years next year. Compared to where we started out in September, we've come a long way. Because of our efforts, students get the best, the authorities get the best. Because of our efforts, students will or won't get xmas exams, based on their dept's discretion with student consent, they know better than admin who wanted to issue a central dictat that said all students had to have exams. 3rd Years can do electives if they want and the likes of a, b or c grades won't be coming in. The way your awarded your honours degree won't change. The practical administrative duty of looking after so many curricula as mloc pointed out is simplified and UCD can say it's the only university in Ireland to be 'modularised'. In September, all that was up for grabs and until our protest last week it seemed our voices weren't being heard.

The authorities in UCD weren't planning on informing the students of what these changes will and won't mean for them next year. Because of our efforts, you'll be getting a letter sometime in the next 10 days or so. There will also be meetings in each faculty and hopefully, each department head will be addressing their classes to answer any questions students have.

Last week, the protest was about the lack of communication the authorities were having with the SU in an attempt to have student voices heard. Our voices have been heard and listened to. Modularisation will work for all in a organised fashion while also solving the concerns students have for their exams. The protesters carried placards saying 'No Implemenation without consultation'. We got what students wanted and I'm sure a lot of UCD students won't ever realise the amount of work 10-20 of us have done to ensure that out of our free time. I'm not asking for a medal or a round of applause, all I'm asking is that next time you say 'the SU does nothing for students', prove it.

The_Minister

pilson wrote:

gene pool dregs? Just because the person pointed out that you come across as illiterate? A bit harsh and ignorant. chill out.

I was referring to those protestors who embaressed the college by refusing to admit that the 70s are gone

scop

When somebodys quotes Machievelli in their signature you can rest assured their heart lies in a far more draconian time than the nineteen-seventies.

The_Minister

scop wrote:

When somebodys quotes Machievelli in their signature you can rest assured their heart lies in a far more draconian time than the nineteen-seventies.

I admire pragmatists, which Machievelli was.
Many modern readers forget how dangerous the times were that he had to live in.

scop

Firespinner wrote:

I admire pragmatists, which Machievelli was.
Many modern readers forget how dangerous the times were that he had to live in.

Indeed, my post was veiled praise.

Stabshauptmann

scop wrote:

When somebodys quotes Machievelli in their signature you can rest assured their heart lies in a far more draconian time than the nineteen-seventies.

zing

Waltons

Pythia wrote:

Rep ++ for you.

Thanks! I try

tintinr35

another thread thats going nowhere, anyone see a pattern emerging