Socialist Embaressments

ferdi

the day students stop protesting (however small) is the day society has sucked thae last bit passion and vision out of the youth.

most of us are happy enough to sit back and bitch if things dont go our way, apathetic in our comfortable neo capatalist liberalistic shells.

Students are meant to protest, it is our duty to challenge authority. If you cant see why you might as well roll over, take it up the ass and die.

pigeonbutler

ferdi wrote:

the day students stop protesting (however small) is the day society has sucked thae last bit passion and vision out of the youth.

most of us are happy enough to sit back and bitch if things dont go our way, apathetic in our comfortable neo capatalist liberalistic shells.

Students are meant to protest, it is our duty to challenge authority. If you cant see why you might as well roll over, take it up the ass and die.

Fair point, but does the fact that the same core of 20-30 people out of 22,000 i.e. 0.1% of the student population are the only ones protesting at everything here on campus points towards the view that maybe they get a kick out of being defiant and being dragged around by An Garda Siochana or Services. If students were really bothered by issues they'd go on protests about them (Hence the respectable attendance at Modularisation protest) but when one sees the same loud minority shouting and screaming at every opportunity one would wonder who they are actually speaking for!!!

Study the university observer, and look at page 3 from the Bertie protest. Then look at the previous issue from the grants occupation, it's the same angry belligerent faces every time.

ferdi

pigeonbutler wrote:

Fair point, but does the fact that the same core of 20-30 people out of 22,000 i.e. 0.1% of the student population are the only ones protesting at everything here on campus

if it matters to 1 person or 22,000 people any and all have the right to protest.

due to our modern world 'democracy' i think people (well i do) feel politically impotent. "there is no point in protesting because it wont change anything". mix this with the "everythings fine" attitude which provades todays affluent ireland and you get a sterile voiceless youth who dont know how to do anthing but buy,buy,buy and get drunk.

i believe it is absolutely essential to the survival of democracy to continue everyday of your life to challenge authority in all its forms. In your words, actions and thoughts. i am not an anarchist, it is because i believe in the democratic model that i feel public protest and civil disobedience are so vital.

anyone protesting, no matter what the reason should not be shot down and slagged off and it makes me sick to hear young people do so. I know its not 1960s san fransisco and we have no vietnam but the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist.

fight the power.

peace out.

Mr.Nice Guy

ferdi wrote:

if it matters to 1 person or 22,000 people any and all have the right to protest.

due to our modern world 'democracy' i think people (well i do) feel politically impotent. "there is no point in protesting because it wont change anything". mix this with the "everythings fine" attitude which provades todays affluent ireland and you get a sterile voiceless youth who dont know how to do anthing but buy,buy,buy and get drunk.

i believe it is absolutely essential to the survival of democracy to continue everyday of your life to challenge authority in all its forms. In your words, actions and thoughts. i am not an anarchist, it is because i believe in the democratic model that i feel public protest and civil disobedience are so vital.

anyone protesting, no matter what the reason should not be shot down and slagged off and it makes me sick to hear young people do so. I know its not 1960s san fransisco and we have no vietnam but the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist.

fight the power.

peace out.

Where's the democracy in a small band of people wrongfully claiming that they represent the majority?

Red Alert

if the majority couldn't be assed doing anything about it then the minority can do / should do whatever they want.

in other Eu countries like france, any protest that people do not agree with will be met with a counter one. why not here.

InFront

Red Alert wrote:

if the majority couldn't be assed doing anything about it then the minority can do / should do whatever they want.

I dont think the problem is that the majority couldnt be arsed protesting, i think the issue here is that the majority dont see anything worth protesting for. Of course you'll always get the same people who would snarl at a packet of sausages just for something to snarl at. UCD is a great place just enjoy what time ye have here dont be so angry about stuff that isnt worth getting angry over

Chinafoot

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Where's the democracy in a small band of people wrongfully claiming that they represent the majority?

Well my understanding of these protests (and I could be wrong here) is that the protests are about issues on which the Union has certain policies. As it is the students that democratically vote for the Union members are they not then carrying out the wishes of the majority?

As Seb already pointed out (and boneless on a previous thread) if you don't use that vote then you really can't complain. If its a case that you did vote but your chosen candidate wasn't elected then surely you should accept the fact that those who were elected were done so by the majority that voted.

I agree, and I'm simply repeating what myself and others have said in previous threads, that the union should focus more of their protests on things that directly affect the students. But it should be noted that a number of their protests do focus on student issues such as grants, modularisation and deportation. If you choose to not get involved then thats your perogative and nobody should slate you for it. Equally if the union do choose to protest they shouldn't be slated for that.

The fact that its the same core group of people out there protesting has a lot more to do with the apathy of UCD students, which in fairness has a lot to do with the perceived inaccessability of the Union, than it does with the people themselves. Stereotyping them as people who "will yell and act the yob, then go smoke hash and clap each other on the back, convinced that they have somehow changed something," is pure ignorance to be perfectly honest.

How else do you expect change to come about or for people to voice their concerns over issues?

ferdi

Red Alert wrote:

if the majority couldn't be assed doing anything about it then the minority can do / should do whatever they want.

in other Eu countries like france, any protest that people do not agree with will be met with a counter one. why not here.

Spot on.

Its alot of bitching on the internet about people they disagree with excersise their right to demonstrate. Hot air from insividuals too lazy to do so themselves.

The_Minister

peachypants wrote:

Stereotyping them as people who "will yell and act the yob, then go smoke hash and clap each other on the back, convinced that they have somehow changed something," is pure ignorance to be perfectly honest.

I was referring to those ...gob(no)...mupp(no).....pill(no).....jackasses, that charged Bertie.

The_Minister

ferdi wrote:

Spot on.

Its alot of bitching on the internet about people they disagree with excersise their right to demonstrate. Hot air from insividuals too lazy to do so themselves.

Its not laziness we just are too considerate of others to shout and scream when we don't get our way. We debate and reason, and when we are dissapointed that the majority disagree with us, we do not throw an organised hissy fit.

Stabshauptmann

Firespinner wrote:

Its not laziness we just are too considerate of others to shout and scream when we don't get our way. We debate and reason, and when we are dissapointed that the majority disagree with us, we do not throw an organised hissy fit.

Hmm though the protest wasnt mandated to protest against american airforce use of shannon I suspect the majority of students disagrees with it.
And the majority of students did mandate the protest against modularisation.

Where exactly do you get the majority disagreeing bit?

The_Minister

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Hmm though the protest wasnt mandated to protest against american airforce use of shannon I suspect the majority of students disagrees with it.

Suspect is not enough. Most students don't care about Shannon and when they don't care the SU has no business acting in one direction. (your also leaving out the countryfolk:D they love Shannon)

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

And the majority of students did mandate the protest against modularisation.

I suspect an e-mail vote would have resulted in that motion being defeated. Only those who intend to vote for it turn up. (one of the main probs with the SU. Since their protesting is nothing if not ignorable it does not adversly affect those against it. As many politicians have said "most people vote against someone else rather than for anyone)


It is more those anti-war protestors making a mockery of us that i hate rather than anything else

InFront

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Hmm though the protest wasnt mandated to protest against american airforce use of shannon I suspect the majority of students disagrees with it.
And the majority of students did mandate the protest against modularisation.

I suspect most members of Greenpeace in Ireland think our nurses deserve higher wages but you dont see them go wild in all direction for that cause. Its nothing to do with them.

SU and shannon? Wannabe Politicians (imo... ahem)

Stabshauptmann

Firespinner wrote:

Suspect is not enough. Most students don't care about Shannon and when they don't care the SU has no business acting in one direction. (your also leaving out the countryfolk:D they love Shannon)

Well afaik the SU mandating opposition to the use of shannon by US troops. I was being more polite than indecisive

I suspect an e-mail vote would have resulted in that motion being defeated.

Suspect? But wait...suspect is not enough:p
Electronic voting, now how did that work out for the last person who sugested it;)

Only those who intend to vote for it turn up. (one of the main probs with the SU. Since their protesting is nothing if not ignorable it does not adversly affect those against it. As many politicians have said "most people vote against someone else rather than for anyone)

Motions have to be passed by a certain number no ?

It is more those anti-war protestors making a mockery of us that i hate rather than anything else

Eh us? You are free to associate and disassociate with whoever you so choose

Stabshauptmann

InFront wrote:

I suspect most members of Greenpeace in Ireland think our nurses deserve higher wages but you dont see them go wild in all direction for that cause. Its nothing to do with them.

SU and shannon? Wannabe Politicians (imo... ahem)

But if greenpeace members did by and large feel angry at something, and an impromtu protest began you cant say those green peace members are just being stubborn because the majority of green peace activists disagree with them.

The SU is the collective voice of the student body of UCD. Its there for opinions on anything. Funnily enough though, couldnt find an official mission statement on their website or a link to their constitution. Strange that

InFront

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

But if greenpeace members did by and large feel angry at something, and an impromtu protest began you cant say those green peace members are just being stubborn because the majority of green peace activists disagree with them.

Im pretty sure the majority of greenpeace activists feel angry about the troops in shannon tbh. did they protest about it?

The SU is the collective voice of the student body of UCD. Its there for opinions on anything.

says who? could you back that up? i cant prove its only there for student issues can you prove its there for global issues? why the heck do they think we have amnesty and groups like that on campus? maybe theyd do a better job if the focused on students not issues pertaining to the general public, thats not who they represent

Stabshauptmann

InFront wrote:

Im pretty sure the majority of greenpeace activists feel angry about the troops in shannon tbh. did they protest about it?

I suppose the diference is in their purpose and mandate

says who? could you back that up? i cant prove its only there for student issues can you prove its there for global issues? why the heck do they think we have amnesty and groups like that on campus? maybe theyd do a better job if the focused on students not issues pertaining to the general public, thats not who they represent

they are an umbrella for the collective student body voice. Whatever people want, thats what the union does.

InFront

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

they are an umbrella for the collective student body voice. Whatever people want, thats what the union does.

Let amnesty and whoever deal with all that global politics bullsh1t, global politics is their area of expertise, its beyond the interests and the scope and, yes, the capabilities of the UCDSU

Chinafoot

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Eh us? You are free to associate and disassociate with whoever you so choose

Exactly!

And those "jackasses" are the same people that are out there for every protest. Just because you dont agree with how they do things don't assume that everyone else feels the same. By doing that you are guilty of the very thing you are accusing them of.

Stabshauptmann

InFront wrote:

Let amnesty and whoever deal with all that global politics bullsh1t, global politics is their area of expertise, its beyond the interests and the scope and, yes, the capabilities of the UCDSU

Article2 Fundamental Objectives wrote:

The objects of the Union shall be the promotion and furtherance of any matters of interest to its membership, and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing...

And the only way to change that is by referendum (with certain conditions, all outlined on www.ucdsu.net - constitution there as well)

boneless

how do you spell embarrassments???

arbeitsscheuer

Hang on, I'll get a Dictionary... I'm a Socialist so therefore I don't know how to spell, have a good time, give a fair evenhanded appraisal of a political debate, or conduct a protest in an adult manner.:rolleyes:

boneless

SebtheBum wrote:

Hang on, I'll get a Dictionary... I'm a Socialist so therefore I don't know how to spell, have a good time, give a fair evenhanded appraisal of a political debate, or conduct a protest in an adult manner.:rolleyes:

It's the drink

The_Minister

SebtheBum wrote:

Hang on, I'll get a Dictionary... I'm a Socialist so therefore I don't know how to spell, have a good time, give a fair evenhanded appraisal of a political debate, or conduct a protest in an adult manner.:rolleyes:

At least you admit it.

AngelofFire

maybe they get a kick out of being defiant and being dragged around by An Garda Siochana or Services

Dont Knock it till you`ve tried it butler