dublindudes vanity thread

AARRRGH

This is not a moan about being banned. It's just a suggestion to make boards.ie a little more professional (/take it out of the school yard.)

When someone is banned from a forum it would make sense for the moderator to PM the bannie (word?) with -

You are banned.
The post that got you banned.
Why it got you banned.
How long you will be banned for.

It will clear up a lot of messing around for everyone.

Here is a typical example of what's happening now -

Mod bans someone for some unknown reason (bad post, personal grudge, needs to feel powerful, mistake, whatever). Mod sends a PM saying "Go away". Mod then ignores all other PMs asking why was the person banned and when will the ban expire.

This to me is quite pathetic and the fact that boards.ie allows this to continue (I would even say, through lack of action, encourages it) really is stopping the site from moving to the next level.

Here's an example of a website which moved to the "next level" -

http://www.webhostingtalk.com

The moderators were professional and did not moderate just for the sake of it (i.e. for bad reasons.) If someone did something wrong, an explanation was sent, with a link to the post and any futher required actions. There was no silly games or rudeness or lack of rules regarding moderation.

Webhostingtalk.com is no where near as busy as boards.ie. It was sold a couple of years ago (after the dot com boom) for a couple of hundred thousand sterling (an exact figure is not known.)

Yes, webhostingtalk.com is aiming itself at a certain industry and this may give it an edge, but I believe it's professionalism was a major factor in it's success. If it was being moderated by a couple of angry geeks it wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

Anyway. It wouldn't take much to create a moderating procedure. It will make people's life easier and it will quickly identify those who only moderate things because they can.

If this is a problem, can I have an explanation why? Saying the mods do their moderation for free is not a valid argument.

On a side note, some consistancy in moderation would go a long way.

Thanks for reading

Giblet

I send people reasons and I still get the same crap as if I didn't.

This is the last few days.

Yeah i really ****in care, no wonder everone on boards hates you

And several of these

Can I get back in?

2 days after sending them the notice that they were banned for a week.

Sounds a bit trivial.


90% of these are from people I sent messages to, about 50% of that is abuse.

AARRRGH

Giblet wrote:

I send people reasons and I still get the same crap as if I didn't.

OK. But -

You are banned.
The post that got you banned.
Why it got you banned.
How long you will be banned for.

- would cut out a lot of the nonsense.

It also protects the non-moderators from abuse (which is one of my main arguments for introducing this.)

Giblet

It also protects the non-moderators from abuse (which is one of my main arguments for introducing this.

It doesn't and it doesn't.

AARRRGH

Giblet wrote:

It also protects the non-moderators from abuse (which is one of my main arguments for introducing this.

It doesn't and it doesn't.

??

Sorry, not with you!

Giblet

Stupid quotes, I meant to say I still get the same crap from the people I don't PM that I would get if I did. In fact, I might be able to get away with it quietly If I don't PM.

Oh and once you do open a conversation, you are probably likely to get abuse.

Anyway, It's good practice but it doesn't necessarily mean that all these problems are going to stop.

AARRRGH

I think you are one of the better mods Giblet (patient and fair.)

You have to understand though that a lot of people will take a banning personally. You can't expect people to greet their banning with a smile. So a certain amount of "What the ****??" PMs are to be expected.

But I think it would be fair if a policy was in place. It makes sense.

Nukem

I have a template for bannings saved away for the need,
Simple i tell the person why and attach a link the infringment and give them a certain length depending on the f*ck up.
And most important to PM when the ban is over and i will lift the ban (just in case i forget).
Do agree a predetermind template in a PM once banned would be handy and cut the abuse out if we could get it done by a boards bot. only ever get the odd ban reply saying sorry or claiming innocence or me being wrong (yes its known to happen:v:)

Nukem

seamus

dublindude wrote:

You have to understand though that a lot of people will take a banning personally. You can't expect people to greet their banning with a smile. So a certain amount of "What the ****??" PMs are to be expected.

Of course. In practice I've found though that, as Giblet points out, you waste more time dealing with the issue when you PM the person than when you just don't bother. Pighead, for example, is particularly bad for "Can I get back in yet?" PMs after he's been banned.

I would prefer if there was no banning procedure, but rather a system in place for normal mods like us Smods and the Admins have. When a person is sitebanned, we can give a reason (if we wish).

Ideally, a mod would click the "Ban This User!" link, and they'd be brought to a page with two fields (both optional): Reason for ban, and length of ban. When they fill these out, the User(s) get a PM from the System* saying

$username,

You have been banned from the "$forum_name" forum.

The reason given for the ban was:
$ban_reason

The length of the ban is:
$ban_length

If you have any queries or contest this ban, please PM the moderator:
$link_to_pm_banner

Thanks

This is something which could be accomplished without any modification of vBulletin as it is. The ban length field would have to be text-only, afaik it would take some serious hacking to add timed bans for forums.

*This is key. Some people have an inability to read instructions. Thus when a moron attempts to reply in rage, they're attempting to reply to a non-existent user, instead of the mod who banned them.

Beruthiel

dublindude wrote:

You are banned.
The post that got you banned.
Why it got you banned.
How long you will be banned for.

this is exactly what I always do
the only exception is if it's someone with 5 posts who is trolling/spamming, they just get nuked.

WhiteWashMan

.

WhiteWashMan

dublindude wrote:

I think you are one of the better mods Giblet (patient and fair.)

You have to understand though that a lot of people will take a banning personally. You can't expect people to greet their banning with a smile. So a certain amount of "What the ****??" PMs are to be expected.

But I think it would be fair if a policy was in place. It makes sense.

unless im mistaken, most mods already do this.
those who dont are simply leaving themselves open to getting a load of pointless PM's from idiots like you.

by the way, i still dont think there should be a given length. im not happy about smart arse people coming back and demanding they be let back into a forum becuase a week is up.

once again, a pointless moaning whinging email from someone who gets themselves banned and then feels the need to validate themselves with their own stupidity.

Talliesin

I've an even better idea. Don't get banned, and then you won't have anything to complain about.

Beruthiel

Talliesin wrote:

I've an even better idea. Don't get banned, and then you won't have anything to complain about.

why that's just genius Tal!

The Sweeper

Ooo! ooo! An administrative task list! Who's going to be quality control on this project? Would anyone like to own the actions?

While you're at it, want to squeeze every last drop of joy out of boards.ie and turn it into my workplace? Can you actually get rubber-potted-plant-bots?

Dublindude, it's not unreasonable to believe that, when banning "proven users" (over 100 posts, over one-month membership as far as I'm concerned) mods should PM a reason.

But it's very naive of you to think that this will stop the abuse, the protests and the threads on feedback.

All that will happen is the threads will change to:

"I got banned from [board] for [behaviour]. I'm PM'd the mod to ask why [whatever was cited as the reason for being banned] should get me banned, but I've not no reply. The mod won't explain their PM to me!! They're a power-crazed f*cknut and I think boards sucks!! Every other bulletin board on the interwheb is better than this one and has better mods!!"

gandalf

dublindude wrote:

This is not a moan about being banned. It's just a suggestion to make boards.ie a little more professional (/take it out of the school yard.)

Boards.ie is a community site and not a professional one. Maybe you can give examples of the mods engaging in school yard antics.

When someone is banned from a forum it would make sense for the moderator to PM the bannie (word?) with -

You are banned.
The post that got you banned.
Why it got you banned.
How long you will be banned for.

It will clear up a lot of messing around for everyone.

I already do this and it is standard practice on politics, the only exceptions are obvious spammers, porn posters etc.

Because of the nature of the politics forum we normally end up engaging in a tirade of pm's with the bannie because they need to get their point accross.

Here is a typical example of what's happening now -

Mod bans someone for some unknown reason (bad post, personal grudge, needs to feel powerful, mistake, whatever). Mod sends a PM saying "Go away". Mod then ignores all other PMs asking why was the person banned and when will the ban expire.

That is not what typically happens, it would be an exception and if the admins see that that particular mod would be demodded. Can you back this up please. The majority of mods here already follow your "best practice" model.

KdjaCL

dublindude wrote:

This is not a moan about being banned.

Shame that , im amazed you have lasted this long.


kdjac

DeVore

Webtalkhosting!!! ?


Don't make me laugh (actually, its too late). Those were the very people who were thrown OUT of boards, forum and all because they couldnt STOP making unprofessional and libelous comments about each others companies!

Yeah. I want to be just like them.

Also, it wont stop the complaints, its just another step on the "rules" road and once we adopt rules we'll get people bending them. The way things are, most people manage to post just fine and arent banned. The vast majority of them in fact. I cant remember the last time a non first-day-spammer was banned from the Poker forum in fact, as an example. I also kinda like the idea that muppet posters don't know where the line is so they fear crossing it. It keeps them in check. I don't think I can think of a board where applied commonsense would lead you to be banned.

Oh, and when we ban people there is a message that is delivered to them along with the "you aint getting in" message.

DeV.

jonski

I am amazed that people can't figure out for themselves why they are banned . I mean , how many 'against the charter' posts do they make in a day that they can't figure out which one got them banned ?

mike65

Sometimes I can't remember when I handed out a ban and it seems reasonble to have the ban 'date-stamped' automaticaly, would this be beyond the admins?

Mike.

rsynnott

But if mods did that there wouldn't be so many "WHY AM I BANNNED?!?!??! I'll sue. Bla" posts here. And that would be a crying shame.

AARRRGH

WhiteWashMan wrote:

PM's from idiots like you.

What is with you an the personal insults?

DeVore wrote:

Webtalkhosting!!! ? Don't make me laugh (actually, its too late).

No, Webhostingtalk.com. You're defo confusing them with someone else. I've been using them for 6 years and they do not post on other forums or act unprofessionally. They run as a proper company with a public image.

DeVore wrote:

Oh, and when we ban people there is a message that is delivered to them along with the "you aint getting in" message.

There just isn't though. My "Go away" example happens to people a lot.

Even if you do not want to make the effort to add a banning procedure to make users life easier, at least consider it to stop mods who abuse the "power" they have. It'll very easy point them out when they consistantly are unable to give a reason for a banning (a personal grudge is not a valid reason.)

Please consider my request rather than blindly dismissing it because a non-mod has suggested it.

seamus

dublindude wrote:

It'll very easy point them out when they consistantly are unable to give a reason for a banning (a personal grudge is not a valid reason.)

Please consider my request rather than blindly dismissing it because a non-mod has suggested it.

Point them out so, and the times they've banned you purely for not liking you. You can PM me in confidence if you like, but seeing as you feel they don't like you, you don't have anything to lose by naming them.

I may be thinking of someone else, but you (though you're not alone), seem to bandy about these allegations of "power abuse" and nonsensical bannings, yet have failed consistently to back up your claims.

Shabadu

I say make DublinDude mod of AH for a while. Let's see how he copes with the vitriol and insults you get solely because you are a mod.

amp

dublindude wrote:

No, Webhostingtalk.com. You're defo confusing them with someone else. I've been using them for 6 years and they do not post on other forums or act unprofessionally. They run as a proper company with a public image.

I think this is the heart of your misunderstanding. Boards is not really run like a company it's run like a community (or a collection of communities).

There just isn't though. My "Go away" example happens to people a lot.

Even if you do not want to make the effort to add a banning procedure to make users life easier, at least consider it to stop mods who abuse the "power" they have. It'll very easy point them out when they consistantly are unable to give a reason for a banning (a personal grudge is not a valid reason.)

Please consider my request rather than blindly dismissing it because a non-mod has suggested it.

Hey we get loads of people who are arrogant enough to think they can come in and tell people who have years more experience moderatoring how to do the job they do for free (or the odd pint and gig ) Excuse us if we show boredom at the topic.

As far as changing my personal approach to banning people. No thanks. I don't ban for fun or for grudges like you are insinuating but nor do I feel that people who are stupid enough to get banned deserve any kind of communication from me explaining why they were stupid.

rsynnott

dublindude wrote:

No, Webhostingtalk.com. You're defo confusing them with someone else. I've been using them for 6 years and they do not post on other forums or act unprofessionally. They run as a proper company with a public image.

I go there occasionally to watch the funny web hosting cretins bitch at each other. I don't know about 'professional', whatever that poor, confused word is being used to mean in this case, but they certainly aren't civilised. And, yes, like Amway or similar, they "run as a proper company with a pubic image". Shame about the public image in question.

In any case, does boards.ie strike you as corporate? It's a community sight. Nitwits who break the rules will be banned. The mods owe them nothing. Seems simple enough to me...

And please do give an example of mod power abuse...

kaimera

Nukem wrote:

<snip>only ever get the odd ban reply saying sorry or claiming innocence or me being wrong (yes its known to happen:v:)

*cough*
yea sure sport....I recall it happening to me on UL :v:

AARRRGH

rsynnott wrote:

And please do give an example of mod power abuse...

I really don't want this thread to escalate into a tit for tat insluting match so no names! I have PM DeVore with an example of nonsense moderating.

I understand this website is a "community" website, and I think it's great at doing that, but a little banning policy can only be helpful. It seems like the right thing to do.

And to the mods who are complaining that people PM them back after a ban etc. You have to understand that most people do not try to act bad or destroy a topic. They just have opinions that are different than yours, and they express themselves differently than you. This is totally normal in a social situation. So when you ban them (just like kicking them out of a party) they are going to take it personally. A little sensitivity or understanding ("He may have a different opinion to me but he's entitled to that") would go a long way!

I'm just trying to suggest a more fair and consistant approach, that's all.

grimloch

dublindude wrote:

And to the mods who are complaining that people PM them back after a ban etc. You have to understand that most people do not try to act bad or destroy a topic. They just have opinions that are different than yours, and they express themselves differently than you. This is totally normal in a social situation. So when you ban them (just like kicking them out of a party) they are going to take it personally. A little sensitivity or understanding ("He may have a different opinion to me but he's entitled to that") would go a long way!

Not to be picky but have you ever seen anyone banned because they had a different opinion to a mods?

AARRRGH

grimloch wrote:

Not to be picky but have you ever seen anyone banned because they had a different opinion to a mods?

It happens to me in PI all the time I have very liberal views on sex. Some of the mods do not like that.

I have a number of friends who use boards.ie (they shall remain nameless...) and it has happened to them too.

It is particular moderators who do it. Most of the moderators do a fine job.

seamus

Seriously, if you're going to make accusations you're going to have to provide some evidence, or I'm just going to lock this. DeV's probably going to ignore your PM. At best, he'll respond in this thread and tell you to feck off