Gardai get power to seize foreign cars

MercMad

My point was that Ireland is the one with the different system and IT has to change, however that is unlikely to happen ................EVER !

In fac t in alot of other Countries the PERSON is what is insured and NOT the car !

The Insurance companies over here have had it their way for so long and when the Government forced them to become more competive the Insurance companies demanded that the Government made changes so they could still target certain folk................i.e those with penalty points !

I understand all about how difficult it could bve but the fact is it is UNFAIR now to allow every tom dick and harry to bring their cars over and drive around without any checking procedeure !

We could have someone driving an unroadworthy car, with a foreign licence that they BOUGHT, over here driving for the first time on the left side with possibly zero hours driving experience at all !!

magpie

had a 'controlled explosion' carried out (as suggested by Magpie).

Norn Iron used to be the home of the Controlled Explosion until quite recently. Also invented the uncontrolled version of exploding car as well AFAIK. Those in glass houses etc.

Damn. That's it then. If only we had a way of increasing the capacity for storing impouned cars. Surely there is something we could do?

You so clever. There is however a resource implication to this, so on balance is it worth the expenditure?

If the Guards are going to be serious about it then they will need extra resources e.g. new impounds, backup personnel (tow trucks) etc., and a way to legally streamline the process.

I think that there will be more bark than bite in this initiative.

Exactly.

Alun

kbannon wrote:

I think the discs idea is a good one and can't see why the UK for example doesn't make the displayng of insurance mandatory.

Other countries use technology. Just type in the reg no. and you'll know everything about the status of the car you need to know. In Holland for example there isn't a single sticker or 'disc' to be seen.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

You so clever. There is however a resource implication to this, so on balance is it worth the expenditure?

I don't know you tell me. You are the one that said it could not be done because they don't have enough room. If there is a need and a will to do it then it will be done. Also, I suppose it depends on what they are going to do with the impounded cars. Selling them after a period of time and charging daily impound fees would generate revenue. A couple of out of town multystories and you sorted.

MrP

Seth Brundle

MercMad wrote:

We could have someone driving an unroadworthy car, with a foreign licence that they BOUGHT, over here driving for the first time on the left side with possibly zero hours driving experience at all !!

Excellent point. These foreigners should not be coming over here where only we should be the ones allowed to drive with "zero hours driving experience".

magpie

I don't know you tell me. You are the one that said it could not be done because they don't have enough room.

No, I said they had reached their storage capacity. I never said it could not be done.

Also, I suppose it depends on what they are going to do with the impounded cars. Selling them after a period of time

You'll note I suggested this but questioned the legal requirements. Do you have any insight into whether they're allowed to sell them, and after what period of time?

charging daily impound fees would generate revenue

Assuming the owner is willing to pay them and/or the car isn't worth less than the impound fee.

couple of out of town multystories

How far out of town? How much would they cost? How many staff would be required to run them? Would you subcontract the towing or have garda vans etc etc

TBH I doubt that any revenue could be earned from this scheme, and this seems to be the bottom line of Irish law enforcement.

fatboypee

kbannon wrote:

Excellent point. These foreigners should not be coming over here where only we should be the ones allowed to drive with "zero hours driving experience".

el tel

magpie wrote:

Norn Iron used to be the home of the Controlled Explosion until quite recently. Also invented the uncontrolled version of exploding car as well AFAIK. Those in glass houses etc.

I've lived in Northern Ireland for 28 years and until this day I never knew it was once 'the home of the Controlled Explosion' and that it was the origin of the carbomb to which you refer. Thanks for the insight.

magpie

origin of the carbomb

The car bomb was invented by the Provisional IRA AFAIK

home of the Controlled Explosion

The concept of the controlled explosion and the machines that deliver the explosive were also pioneered by the British Army in Northern Ireland. For instance http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2413bombsquad.html (but you can find lots more info about this is you look)

NARRATOR: The Mark Two Wheelbarrows had a remotely controlled arm, which meant it could tackle a car bomb where it was parked. Peter Gurney, a former chief of the London Bomb Squad, was one of the first people to try it out in Belfast.

PETER GURNEY: This machine was really the first of the car bomb killers, because it had on the front an attachment to break a car window. Now, the idea was that you drove up onto this part that actually came in contact with a car window, and so it was forced in. This would spring out and break your car window. There was a lot of trouble with the early ones on these, because they tended to skid up a window, and you would find yourself unable to break the window. So, you had to withdraw the Wheelbarrow. And then, Colonel Miller modified them by fitting in a tungsten carbide tip in there which actually digs into the glass and stops it skidding.

NARRATOR: It delivered an explosive charge that was designed to disrupt the car bomb components without detonating the bomb. The tube of explosive was called candle.

INSTRUCTIONAL FILM V/O: Candle consists of 108 grams of aluminized explosive contained in a plastic tube and initiated by an electric detonator. When candle is fired, the car is opened up and there is a high probability that the IED will be completely disrupted.

NARRATOR: This is what came to be known as a controlled explosion.

Thanks for the insight

You're welcome. I'm surprised you've lived in Northern Ireland for so long without knowing about this, but I'm glad to have been able to facilitate you learning something new.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

You'll note I suggested this but questioned the legal requirements. Do you have any insight into whether they're allowed to sell them, and after what period of time?

I don't actually know but I would imagine that if they couldn't now legislation could / should be put in place to allow them to.

magpie wrote:

Assuming the owner is willing to pay them and/or the car isn't worth less than the impound fee.

Exactly, this is where it get complicated. The sh1tter the car the more likely it is the owner will leave it. Add to that the fact that there may be outstanding finance on the car. It is not simple.

magpie wrote:

How far out of town? How much would they cost? How many staff would be required to run them? Would you subcontract the towing or have garda vans etc etc

Again I don't know. I do not know anything about running impound yards, why should I? I leave the running of impound yard to, well, the people that run them. I would like to think that if they needed more space they would know what to do and will not drop me a PM looking for help.

magpie wrote:

TBH I doubt that any revenue could be earned from this scheme, and this seems to be the bottom line of Irish law enforcement.

I don't see how it could not generate any revenue. Some people are bound to pay to get their cars back. If they are allowed to sell cars after a period they are bound to get money form that. So I don't see how they could earn nothing from it. Perhaps they may not earn enough to cover the running costs of the scheme but that is different.

You would also have to look at the potential increase in Road tax revenue and income to the gov from insurance duty. If people run the risk of losing their car for no tax or insurance they are probably more like to purchase them.

All in all it might actually reduce the number of ninsured Irish drivers on the road as well as non-nationals.

MrP

fatboypee

magpie wrote:

The car bomb was invented by the Provisional IRA AFAIK



The concept of the controlled explosion and the machines that deliver the explosive were also pioneered by the British Army in Northern Ireland. For instance http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2413bombsquad.html (but you can find lots more info about this is you look)

You're welcome. I'm surprised you've lived in Northern Ireland for so long without knowing about this, but I'm glad to have been able to facilitate you learning something new.

fatboypee

magpie wrote:

The car bomb was invented by the Provisional IRA AFAIK



The concept of the controlled explosion and the machines that deliver the explosive were also pioneered by the British Army in Northern Ireland. For instance http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2413bombsquad.html (but you can find lots more info about this is you look)

You're welcome. I'm surprised you've lived in Northern Ireland for so long without knowing about this, but I'm glad to have been able to facilitate you learning something new.

el tel

magpie wrote:

The car bomb was invented by the Provisional IRA AFAIK

Well, the "AFAIK" at the end of your statement makes it totally incontrovertible.

To get back to the topic - I think the whole thing will be an unworkable mess for years to come yet. In the North there are 1000s of cars that are without tax and insurance and the PSNI and DVLNI are desperately unable to deal with the situation. I doubt the Gardai and the authorities in the South can be any more effective given their track record with enforcing these sorts of measures.

magpie

To get back to the topic

.. and to totally ignore the fact you were proved wrong about Northern Ireland being the home of the controlled explosion...

Well, the "AFAIK" at the end of your statement makes it totally incontrovertible.

Well, you can't deny that they've certainly triggered a lot of them over the course of the last 30 odd years. Or did you miss that as well?

So I don't see how they could earn nothing from it. Perhaps they may not earn enough to cover the running costs of the scheme but that is different.

If you're not covering costs then you're earning nothing. In fact you are losing money or generating negative earnings, so its not different at all.

Imposter

Bond-007 wrote:

Try driving in Austria without an Austrian tax disc see how far you get. Or Hungary or Slovakia for that matter. Tourists must pay the road tax in these countries.

Actually no such 'disc' exists. Austrian registered cars need a Pickerl (basically an NCT badge) as well as a Zulassungsschein (This is the registration info for the car, tying the car to it's owner to the number plates). This is enough as the Zulassungsschein is tied to the number plates on the car which have to be given back if insurance is not up to date. Tax is paid in the insurance so that solves that one.

Foreign cars need their International insurance cert which I presume also exists in Ireland. It's the green thing that lists your policy number, your insurer and the countries and dates where your insurance is valid.

Mr. Pudding wrote:

What needs to happen is the Irish authorites need to get their fingers out of their asses and start to contact other countries and work out cross border tax and isurance agreements. It should not be difficult to make it a requirement for drivers entering the country to have documentation from from their insurance company or road tax authority showing the validity of both and having it in English.

Does the international insurance cert not exist in Ireland then?

Devon

I love it. Fly magpie.... FLY!!!

magpie wrote:

The car bomb was invented by the Provisional IRA AFAIK



The concept of the controlled explosion and the machines that deliver the explosive were also pioneered by the British Army in Northern Ireland. For instance http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2413bombsquad.html (but you can find lots more info about this is you look)





You're welcome. I'm surprised you've lived in Northern Ireland for so long without knowing about this, but I'm glad to have been able to facilitate you learning something new.

el tel

magpie wrote:

.. and to totally ignore the fact you were proved wrong about Northern Ireland being the home of the controlled explosion...

So since 15.39 today, providing one website link and a passage from said website amounts to absolute and unequivocal proof that your opinion is in an irrefutable fact and as such the other party in an argument is wrong?

magpie wrote:

Well, you can't deny that they've certainly triggered a lot of them over the course of the last 30 odd years. Or did you miss that as well?

At least you are humble enough to downgrade your bold statement to the indecisive terms "a lot of them" and "30 odd years". You obviously know what you are talking about and have great conviction in it.

And I didn't miss the explosions, like others I've lost people in them.

That's why I was happy to get back on topic

MrPudding

Imposter wrote:

Does the international insurance cert not exist in Ireland then?

I don't know, you tell me. F it does why is there so much confusion as to whether ot not foreign drivers have insurance?

magpie wrote:

If you're not covering costs then you're earning nothing. In fact you are losing money or generating negative earnings, so its not different at all.

Not actually true. Earning can relate to income before tax and charges so it would be possible for it to earn money but not make profit or cover costs.

And on the subject of car bombs. I seem to recall them being used occaionally during the second world war. My Irish histroy is a bit shaky but I believe that would be before the provos.

MrP

Imposter

MrPudding wrote:

I don't know, you tell me. F it does why is there so much confusion as to whether ot not foreign drivers have insurance?

I don't know. I've never driven in Ireland so that's why i asked! How do you prove you have insurance if you are in an irish car in Northern Ireland or anywhere else? I can't imagine the insurance 'disc' is known and understood throughout europe!

Our man in Havana

Whats the dealy with the vingette?

boardy

Imposter wrote:

Actually no such 'disc' exists.

Speaking of discs: with my insurance disc, my tax disc, my NCT disc, my resident disc (and my Lidl-discount disc), I can barely see out the windscreen.
Isn't it a bit antiquated? Surely there should be a more modern way to achieve this? With modern technology you would expect that all of this information could be tied together (e.g. on a chip) and retrieved by law enforcement by a quick swipe of a handheld device.

Imposter

Bond-007 wrote:

Whats the dealy with the vingette?

If that's aimed at me the Vignette is the sticker that allows you to drive on the motorways. It's about 70€ a year (2 month and 2 week or maybe 10 day stickers can be got too). It's basically their way of handling motorway tolling although a handful of very very expensive roads (2 or 3) have additional tolls. The fine for been caught on the motorway (or usually coming off it), without a vignette amounts to about 7 years of vignettes so it's a fair deterrent to not having one.

Our man in Havana

Imposter wrote:

If that's aimed at me the Vignette is the sticker that allows you to drive on the motorways. It's about 70€ a year (2 month and 2 week or maybe 10 day stickers can be got too). It's basically their way of handling motorway tolling although a handful of very very expensive roads (2 or 3) have additional tolls. The fine for been caught on the motorway (or usually coming off it), without a vignette amounts to about 7 years of vignettes so it's a fair deterrent to not having one.

The great thing about this is that it taxes foreign cars as well equally! We need something like this in Ireland!

Seth Brundle

You mean a tax on (foreign) motorists who may have already paid tax? Thats double taxation and our government wouldn't get away with doing that.
Oh wait, they have been doing it to Irish motorists for years.

Our man in Havana

Not double taxation. They may well have paid road tax in their home country but what the suggestion is make them make a contribution to Irish roads by having a vistors road tax disc for offshore reg cars.

Where in national or EU law states that payment of road tax in one country covers roads in another?

IDMUD

Bond-007 wrote:

Not double taxation. They may well have paid road tax in their home country but what the suggestion is make them make a contribution to Irish roads by having a vistors road tax disc for offshore reg cars.

Where in national or EU law states that payment of road tax in one country covers roads in another?

I'd be cool with paying tax here if i could keep my car registered and insured in another country.

Our man in Havana

What I am suggesting would be for short term vistors only.

Imposter

That's not how it works here though. The vignette is the way motorway tolling is handled and not tax. Tax is collected as part of your insurance.

boardy

From today's Independent:

The Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen has closed the legal loophole which states that only vehicles registered in the state can be impounded if uninsured or untaxed.

From today, all vehicles, including foreign registered ones, will face being detained in relation to insurance or tax offences, or if driven by an unlicensed driver.

The Minister says the move will prevent these practices which he says was reckless to the extreme.

Seth Brundle

according to this it will happen when the forthcoming Road Traffic Bill is passed.
Another case of the indo not researching properly?