Goldendoodle anyone?

Soledad

Does anyone have a goldendoodle, a cross between a standard poodle and agolden retriever?
Or a weimarner?
Would appreciate any feedback.
Have a friend who can give us a puppy of each breed just wondering what they are like as pets/

peasant

Generalising dogs by breed doesn't really work. Dogs are individuals, the only thing a breed description will tell you is what the dog will most likely look like once its grown. 95 % of the so called "character descriptions" are either makebelief or so generic that they would fit any dog.

Having said that, Weimaraners have been bred for centuries as hunting dogs, so stay away if you do not want your future dog to have a strong hunting instinct.
All the -"oodles" that have come into fashion lately are sadly most likely the product of some backyard breedery wanting to cash in on the latest fashion.
They are mongrels ...nothing else ...the parents selected for looks and nothing else, often with rather catastrophic results.

So, if you really want one of these puppies, best make sure that they come from a responsible breeder (of which there aren't any for -"oodles" !!), that both parents and all grandparents were healthy and sound in character, that the pups are haelthy and well socialised and that the breeder is sound and will help you with all your questions and problems rather than just sell you a dog.

If that sounds like to much work ... maybe think about a rescue dog ?
A good rescue will take your circumstances into consideration and will help you choose the dog that suits you and yours best ...regardless of breed or fashion.

Usually this kind of arrangement turns out best for dog AND owner

Soledad

Thanks for the response.
We have a friend who breeds dogs for a living, he breeds mostly very large breeds, all IKC registered.
We asked him about getting a dog as a pet when we move to a rural location with a large garden.
I would be at home most of the day and there is access to hill walks on my doorstep.
I would feel more comfortable with a big dog as I have always had big dogs in the past, always mongrels though.
My kids saw a goldendoodle in the newspaper when they were showcased as the new guide dog breeds being used in Ireland. The liked the look of them so I enquired about them.
My friend said he could get one alright but I hadn't really heard about them before so was unsure.
My husband has his heart set on a weimarner, wlaking and exercise would be no problem but wondering how social they are in terms of fitting in with family life.
While I want to be able to go for long walks with the dog we choose I also want a dog which will be content to be in a home environment with small children.
My sister has a golden retriever who is a nightmare and turned me off that particular breed.
She also has a rescue dog who is a perfect pet so maybe we will go that route.
I am not interested in a dog for looks as my last fog was anything but beautiful but had the best temperament of any dog I have known.
Thanks again for the feedback, qill research it all a bit more.

FranknFurter

Fact that may interest you............
For every litter of "-oodle"s that are tried for fashion / function reasons, the MAJORITY do not survive due to size & health reasons. People who buy 'em, are actually contributing to the deaths of thousands (if not more) deaths and suffering.

For instance, imagine if somone tried to make a chimp give birth to a gorilla, you get the idea im sure.

Im NOT saying that YOU would ever endorse the practice, its just somthing anyone, imho, should be aware of before thinking along those lines.
But I personally recommend rescuing one from the pound (almost certain death). Or a rescue org.
Have a look here -> http://www.irishanimals.ie/dublin_homes.html you can pick your county from near the top of the page and find a dog whos personality suits you.

fits

Just to put a spanner in the works... wouldnt these crosses benefit from 'hybrid vigour', and as such be healthier than pure bred animals???

If not why not?

OP, if you want a brilliant family pet, get a whippet. I'm totally in love with mine, and he is very gentle around children. He is active outside, but a real couch potatoe inside, and likes nothing better than resting his head in my lap while I read/watch television. (I'm sure a lot of greyhounds and lurchers would fit the bill too)

FranknFurter

fits wrote:

Just to put a spanner in the works... wouldnt these crosses benefit from 'hybrid vigour', and as such be healthier than pure bred animals???

Ah, but how many generations of how many *types* of crosses would have to die or suffer horrible health consequences before any of that would become apparent?
Thats the crux of it really imho.
There are by far enough genetic crossovers trying to breed "fashionable" dogs already, why make more?

b

peasant

Just to put a spanner in the works... wouldnt these crosses benefit from 'hybrid vigour', and as such be healthier than pure bred animals???

At first glance ...yes. There are several "buts" though.

The biggest one being that they are not exactly hybrids in the real sense ...no dog is or ever will be ...after all you're only breeding dog with dog.
Regardless of all the perceived differences between breeds ...they are all dogs. So no real hybrids there.

Now to the idea of crossbreeds being healthier than purebreds;
First of all...why are purebreds becoming more and more unhealthy lately? Because they are bred from an ever diminishing gene pool (or "resurrected" from an even smaller one) with appearance being the main criteria for selection. Health has always taken the back seat when it comes to breeding selection. The end result now is that there are very few breeds that do not suffer from one or more genetic, heredetary disease, diseases crippling whole breeds in varying degrees of severity.

As all these "-oodles" and other designer dogs are still bred for looks only and not health, the simple fact that their parents stem from different breeds makes no difference whatsoever to their wellbeing. At least within some breeds, there are responsible breeders who are beginning to monitor the health of their breed and are selecting their sires and dams for health as well as for looks, but when you simply throw together a nice looking (most likely sick) Labrador and a nice looking (most likely sick) Poodle, that's just hoping for the best while expecting the worst.

What really sickens me then is when this kind of "doggy alchemy" gets hailed as the latest and greatest in dog "breeding"

When it comes to health and genetic diversity and wellbeing a real mongrel, the Heinz 57 variety is still your best bet ...possibly one that has never had anyone of lineage in their history.

But with the desire to own a purebred or designer dog that comes with a more and more affluent society, the mongrel is on its way out and the doggy genepool is getting seriously depleted.



to the OP:

Especially bigger dogs have a hard time finding new homes. I'll bet you, that you will find the perfect dog for you in a pound or shelter without too much difficulty.

Arcadian

FranknFurter wrote:

Fact that may interest you............
For every litter of "-oodle"s that are tried for fashion / function reasons, the MAJORITY do not survive due to size & health reasons.

What information is available to back up that fact? Not nit picking, genuinely interested;)

fits

The biggest one being that they are not exactly hybrids in the real sense ...no dog is or ever will be ...after all you're only breeding dog with dog.
Regardless of all the perceived differences between breeds ...they are all dogs. So no real hybrids there.

so are you suggesting we breed dog with cats? I dont think you understand the word hybrid. If someone can give me a proper explanation as to why these mongrels are a bad idea, I;m prepared to listen. rather than sensationalised crap

peasant

If someone can give me a proper explanation as to why these mongrels are a bad idea, I;m prepared to listen.

Because we humans have already managed to **** up most breeds of dog, literally bred them to death. All of them started up as mongrels in some shape or form. All of them used to be healthy dogs, fit for a purpose.
Then standardisation set in, looks and appearance became more important than health, fitness or working ability.

The exact same thing is going to happen to "-oodles" as they become first brands and then "recognized" breeds and then mass produced consumer goods. Enough is enough.

And as far as the individual "-oodle" is concerned ... why can't it just be called a "mix"? Because as a mix it wouldn't make any money. Nobody wants a "mix". People want a dog that they can show off with. So its "breeders" give it a fancy name and, hey presto, a new consumer brand is created and the dosh comes rolling in.

But the real problem is, that breeding dogs is just a bit more difficult than it first looks. "-oodles" = Poodle mixes were first "created" in order to get a non shedding dog (Poddles don't shed) that looks a bit more substantial and less "ridicoulous" than a Poodle, has wavy instead of curly hair and has the laid back character of a Retriever and less of the Poodles hyperness. So you throw together one of each and you get a quite decent result. Ok ..it still sheds a bit, still is a bit hyper and will probaly get a bad hip ...but it looks oh so loveley, people are ripping the puppies out of your hands.
So you try again ...you still can't get a non-shedding dog ..but by God are they cuuute. Tries with different parents don't work out that well, so you stick with the same ones. And then, to perfect and standardize the look, you breed dogs from the different litters with each other and there you are ...the perfect commodity ...the cutest dog on earth! Never mind that it comes from the narrowest genepool on earth, we' ll just tell people differently in the advertising bumpf. Never mind that it still sheds ...sure a dog this cute will be forgiven. Never mind that all heredetary diseases from both parent breeds have found their way into the offspring ...those are all ilnesses that really only show with age, the puppies look perfectly allright. Never mind that some of your pups have been reported to have anything but stable characters ...you're selling cute puppies ...if people spoil or "turn" their dogs, that's not your problem and most certainly not your fault.

Bad enough as the breeding of the established breeds is, at least there are some rules, regulations and efforts made to stop the decline of the breed and improve the health of the dogs.

But the designer dogs have no club, no register, no controlling body and any "breeders association" that you will find only came together to patent or trademark the name and make sure that they make as much money as possible.

That is why any designer dog is a bad idea.

fits

Heterosis is increased strength of different characteristics in hybrids; the possibility to obtain a "better" individual by combining the virtues of its parents.

This is commonly known as hybrid vigor or outbreeding enhancement. It is often the opposite process of inbreeding depression, which increases homozygosity. Heterosis is an example of heterozygous advantage. The term often causes controversy, particularly in terms of domestic animals, because it is sometimes believed that all crossbred plants or animals are better than their parents; this is untrue. Rather, when a hybrid is seen to be superior to its parents, this is known as hybrid vigor. It may also happen that a hybrid inherits such different traits from their parents that make them unfit for survival. This is known as outbreeding depression, and usually occurs in breeding between wild fish and hatchery fish that have incompatible adaptations.

peasant

Ah, fits ...you obviously know your stuff ...

But that is exactly where the problem lies ...most "-oodle" and "-poo" breeders do not.

In their defence it would have to be said, that it is a mammoth task to screen all possible parents x generations back and follow up on all the offspring to try and deduct which traits or diseases get passed on under which circumstances and which don't.
Pairing two seemingly perfect parents will by no means result in perfect offspring every time ...the whole genetics thing is way to complex for that.

But my gripe is that all the "oodles&poo" producers couldn't care less about genetics and proper breeding anyway ...they've just created another niche in the market and and are waay to busy minting it.

fits

I dont know my stuff, I got it from wikipedia.
Totally agree that this breeding should be controlled, but it isnt necessarily a completely bad thing to mix breeds a bit.

Just a thought, if breeders bred for manageability and temperament by mixing breeds, as well as for looks, would there be less dogs pts in our pounds?

Nala

The Guide Dog association breed Goldendoodles for people that are allergic to dog fur and for that reason would not be able to have the normal Labradors/Golden Retrievers that are usually used as Guide Dogs. This I agree with because the parents have all been health screened, their temperments have been tested etc. But it's the "designer" breeds I don't agree with. Some crosses just don't work, simple as that. Even when two breeds usually make a good crossbreed (e.g. the pup inherits the best features of both parents) there can be pups that will have the bad features of both parents. It's the same with horses. Thoroughbreds (racehorses) are often crossed with Shires (similar to the Budweiser horses) in the hope that the crossbreed will inherit the best features of each parent- the Thouroughbred's speed and the Shire's strength. But often, the crossbreed turns out to have the enormous body of the Shire, and the extremely thin legs of the Thouroughbred, which break easily. So you've a big heavy horse on thin narrow legs, which doesn't work.

fits

Nala wrote:

It's the same with horses. Thoroughbreds (racehorses) are often crossed with Shires (similar to the Budweiser horses) in the hope that the crossbreed will inherit the best features of each parent- the Thouroughbred's speed and the Shire's strength. But often, the crossbreed turns out to have the enormous body of the Shire, and the extremely thin legs of the Thouroughbred, which break easily. So you've a big heavy horse on thin narrow legs, which doesn't work.

I really wish they'd breed some hardier strains into the thoroughbred. Its ridiculous how easily these horses get sick/break down. I've had a half bred mare for 13 years, and she has never once been lame and was sick once.

Nala

Thouroughbreds are usually used to improve other breeds which is funny cos I personally amn't mad about them, I find them a bit highly strung. And their legs are ridiculously thin! But they are beautiful and I think they are used to produce a faster, more finely built horse. Crossing with the Irish Draft is said to produce fantastic competition horses.

fits

Nala wrote:

Thouroughbreds are usually used to improve other breeds which is funny cos I personally amn't mad about them, I find them a bit highly strung.

I actually dont find them to be any more highly strung than any other horses as a rule. I think their reputation is worse than the reality.
I was actually talking about breeding in some hardier cold blooded strains into the racing thoroughbred, to attain a tough fast horse. For example, why cant a race horse be 1/16th connemara or highland pony or something.
I dont know enough about genetics to know if this would work though
Theres just too many horses breaking legs and pulling tendons and ligaments.

peasant

How about just stopping horse racing?

Then one could breed strong, healthy horses instead of incredibly sensitive and delicate formula one horses ...:D


Same argument for dogs ...why don't we just breed healthy dogs instead of ever new variants and looks?

Because "the market" wants it the way it is.

So we have to change "the market" ...not the animals.

Not buying "oodles&poo" would be a start !!

fits

peasant wrote:

How about just stopping horse racing?

Then one could breed strong, healthy horses instead of incredibly sensitive and delicate formula one horses ...:D

It just aint going to happen like that though is it? Racehorses generally are pretty well cared for though.

Arcadian

fits wrote:

It just aint going to happen like that though is it? Racehorses generally are pretty well cared for though.

Only the ones that make the grade i think.

fits

Well in my experience, a lot of the ones that dont make the grade, make great riding horses, and the horses from the yard I know are sent to the Irish horse welfare trust to be retrained. www.ihwt.ie

macbuc

Hi, I'm trying to find a goldendoodle puppy for sale, having an impossible time trying to find one, any idea where your friend got theirs?

star-pants

ck63, welcome to Boards.ie - just a note, it's considered bad form to drag up threads that are old, this one is 5 years old and it's not particularly relevant