Ticknock range

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

...all illegally...

Absolutely not. Coillte encourage people to walk in their woods, and at present are planning to expand the car park at that site. Every wood in the country owned by Coillte is open to the public. The one behind me is used regularly by horse riders, walkers and joggers. It is also rented for deer culling.

rrpc

Rew wrote:

Plenty of military ranges are in areas frequented by the public, Killbride is popular with hill walkers, scramblers and mountin bikers. As far as I can tell the Army selling on safety grounds is a rumour going back to when this subject came up last September. If you google for Ticknock there is referance to its sale in government/Army.

And if you read An Bord Pleanala's inspectors report, you will note that when the Army used the range, they closed down all access to the woods for the duration. They do the same with Kilbride and other ranges. Walkers will not get within an asses roar of the place while the Army are using it unless they manage to circomvent the roadblocks, in which case I'd imagine they're in a lot of danger.

The range pointing downhill, I would have thought would have made it more unsafe than a level range. Especially as the land rises up again beyond the butts.

Rew

rrpc wrote:

n. They do the same with Kilbride and other ranges. Walkers will not get within an asses roar of the place while the Army are using it unless they manage to circomvent the roadblocks, in which case I'd imagine they're in a lot of danger.

The range pointing downhill, I would have thought would have made it more unsafe than a level range. Especially as the land rises up again beyond the butts.

You obvioulsy never been on a military range then, access isn't closed down at all.

Not sure why you think shooting down hill would be unsafe, if your shooting down hill you have to aim way up to shoot over the butts.

rrpc

Rew wrote:

You obvioulsy never been on a military range then, access isn't closed down at all.

I've been around a few, while they are being used, and roads were blocked except for local access to houses etc. When I was in the Free Clothes Association, the Regulars would accompany us when on shooting details, and would stay on the roads outside the range.

Not sure why you think shooting down hill would be unsafe, if your shooting down hill you have to aim way up to shoot over the butts.

If the firing point is at the same angle as the range, you can shoot over the butts just as easily as on a flat range, and I've seen enough of that happening to know it happens. If the firing point is level, you are much more inclined to shoot high. I am talking about accidental discharges here, and although some will hit the ground, far too many for comfort go above the butts.

Sparks

rrpc wrote:

Absolutely not. Coillte encourage people to walk in their woods

To walk, yes. To mountain bike, no; hence the signs they've posted in that area (see the above attached image). And since it was the mountain bikers who brought the original complaints and pushed them, that's whom I think of when I think of those that use that area. You're right though, in that those walking around there are not breaking the law. Thing is, they weren't complaining either

It doesn't change the legality of the range with regard to planning permission, of course; it just points out that people were acting rather unfairly here. But, well, welcome to Ireland...

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

To walk, yes. To mountain bike, no; hence the signs they've posted in that area (see the above attached image). And since it was the mountain bikers who brought the original complaints and pushed them, that's whom I think of when I think of those that use that area. You're right though, in that those walking around there are not breaking the law. Thing is, they weren't complaining either

Well the main complaint that was made in the inspectors report, was from a local resident who had been living there for over thirty years. If they were mountain bikers, fair play to them at their age

Sparks

The complaint in the inspectors report was not the original complain by several weeks rrpc...

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

The complaint in the inspectors report was not the original complain by several weeks rrpc...

It may have been, remember that only observations that are made at Council level can be heard at Bord Pleanala level. Outside of An Taisce and statutory named bodies that is. This was not an ordinary planning type appeal, but a referral from a local authority. In such cases, I believe that the referral to An Bord Plaenala would have included all representations received by the council.

It's not easy to look this stuff up, as it does not follow the normal planning rules, as well as which, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown do not have an online planning search facility, just a weekly list system. In any event, reports of unauthorised developments are not available to the general public for obvious reasons.

Sparks

remember that only observations that are made at Council level can be heard at Bord Pleanala level.

Indeed, and the original complaints went directly to local papers instead of through the official channels. At which point it became an electioneering point and the whole thing went to pot.

Rew

rrpc wrote:

I've been around a few, while they are being used, and roads were blocked except for local access to houses etc. When I was in the Free Clothes Association, the Regulars would accompany us when on shooting details, and would stay on the roads outside the range.

Iv been on alot more then a few and thats not the case. There will be a presence (1 maybe 2 soldiers) at the gate suggesting that people dont enter the area and the same if there was a another gate. No road blocks, cordons, closeing the entire area etc.

Alot of what the couple living in the area for 30 years said is anecdotal. Other such evidence includes people who used to go watch the Army shooting from the high ground that over looks the range to one side. So the whole forrest was not closed. The military can only restrict access to their lands not Coilte land.

If the firing point is at the same angle as the range, you can shoot over the butts just as easily as on a flat range, and I've seen enough of that happening to know it happens. If the firing point is level, you are much more inclined to shoot high. I am talking about accidental discharges here, and although some will hit the ground, far too many for comfort go above the butts.

Accidental discharges can be in any direction. So it makes no differance what angle the range is at. A range where the targets are lower then the shooter means that they are aiming down making it more dificult to shoot over the buts while shooting at the targets.

skellig

Its been a while but I felt I had to intervene. How dare you all discuss and advertise Ticknock Range , associates business on Boards . Talk about giving the Antis a helping hand with that type of information .
As for you REW stating that it is typical of the above being tight lipped well "duh "to you ,you big gobeen .
Would you like your business or house planning etc made available on the boards to as you know (God knows who) It is their own private business ---think about it if you can .--one wonders!!
Its more ranges that are needed in this country and we all could do without your bickering, for God sake think positive and play your cards close to your chest and if you cant understand that PM me, personally I hope you dont

civdef

How dare you all discuss and advertise Ticknock Range

Skellig, God forbid, people discussing stuff on a discussion forum! Here's the thing, we don't need to ask your permission before creating posts.

Get over yourself.

Rew

skellig wrote:

Its been a while but I felt I had to intervene. How dare you all discuss and advertise Ticknock Range , associates business on Boards . Talk about giving the Antis a helping hand with that type of information .
As for you REW stating that it is typical of the above being tight lipped well "duh "to you ,you big gobeen .
Would you like your business or house planning etc made available on the boards to as you know (God knows who) It is their own private business ---think about it if you can .--one wonders!!
Its more ranges that are needed in this country and we all could do without your bickering, for God sake think positive and play your cards close to your chest and if you cant understand that PM me, personally I hope you dont

Im not a memeber of LRPC, but I am a supporter of what there trying to do. I strongly belive that if you have something to hide you can forget ever having a range.

Playing your cards close to your chest hasn't gotten you too far with Ticknock.

The planning stuff is a matter of public record sinmple as that. The "Antis" aren't as anti when you talk to them and explain where they have taken you up wrong, id like to think I proved that with the mountin bikers.

Your really should look at what you posted its cryptic and does zero for your cause. Looks like we may have a chance to meet face to face soon feel free to say your peace here or then.

Traumadoc

There seems to ba a lot of development planned in the area-

http://www.unison.ie/classifieds/property/commercial/stories.php?ca=151&si=1490221

skellig

Its a shooters forum Civdef all the more reason to help out the sport the best way we can, it is not necessary to display any clubs private business on boards. Its bad enough to have it for public viewing on Bord Pleanala website without certain people adding to its problems. Damage can be one by too much discussions especially uninformed ones.


REW as I expected you just dont have a clue do you? Its your type of support we could all do without, its of no help what so ever

"I strongly believe that if you have something to hide you can forget ever having a range"

How wrong can you be REW there is no point in me trying to explain it to you it wont help the situation at all. I will just have to leave you in ignorance on the matter. Its likely you know me REW ,if so please refrain from naming me on the boards as I have firearms and I dont need my name up for public viewing for that reason surely even you REW can understand this.(get my drift)

As for meeting face to face Im not interested

Clash

skellig wrote:

Its been a while but I felt I had to intervene. How dare you all discuss and advertise Ticknock Range , associates business on Boards . Talk about giving the Antis a helping hand with that type of information

Everything that I've read here is a matter of public record. If you have a problem with that, I'd suggest you take it up with An Bord Pleanala.

Would you like your business or house planning etc made available on the boards to as you know (God knows who) It is their own private business ---think about it if you can .--one wonders!!

All planning matters are a matter of public record, it's called openness and transparency in the planning system. So yes, we could discuss Rew's planning application here if we wanted. Have you got one in Rew?

Its more ranges that are needed in this country

No argument there, but there's a right way and a wrong way of going about it.

for God sake think positive and play your cards close to your chest and if you cant understand that PM me, personally I hope you dont

That's the wrong way, aside from the inherent oxymoron in the above sentence.

Rew

skellig wrote:

Its a shooters forum Civdef all the more reason to help out the sport the best way we can, it is not necessary to display any clubs private business on boards. Its bad enough to have it for public viewing on Bord Pleanala website without certain people adding to its problems. Damage can be one by too much discussions especially uninformed ones.

Well thanks for informing us, if the committee thinks somehting here is damaging there are 3 mods they can contact about it.

REW as I expected you just dont have a clue do you? Its your type of support we could all do without, its of no help what so ever

I wonder who is the one who's really out of touch with reality here. Take a long hard look at your self. Shooting dosn't need people who treat all none shooters as the enemy. You do nothing for the sport. Education, dialogue and some understaning of why they might be "Antis" would go along way.

"I strongly believe that if you have something to hide you can forget ever having a range"
How wrong can you be REW there is no point in me trying to explain it to you it wont help the situation at all. I will just have to leave you in ignorance on the matter.

I get the feeling this is how you treat everyone... :rolleyes:

You haven't even said what your relationship to the whole situation is? Why should we even entertian your posts? Its not as if you make any significant contrabution here.

Its likely you know me REW ,if so please refrain from naming me on the boards as I have firearms and I dont need my name up for public viewing for that contrabutud reason surely even you REW can understand this.(get my drift)

Iv zero interest in naming you or anyone else, most of us have certs, why you even posted that I dont know.

As for meeting face to face Im not interested

Good to know, again I get the impression this is a theme with you. No talk, no meetings, no info. Do you speek for everyone?

Sparks

skellig wrote:

"I strongly believe that if you have something to hide you can forget ever having a range"
How wrong can you be REW there is no point in me trying to explain it to you

Bull. Skellig, you guys were warned well ahead of any of the complaints being made initially by the mountain bikers that those complaints were going to crop up. LRPC was specifically told that they desperately needed to have a public relations officer and to come out and engage with people before the problem spiralled out of control. You thought this would be foolish and cause problems. Well, we've all seen how well that approach worked. RRPC, Rew and Civ are right; in today's world, keeping it all sotto voce does nothing for you and generally just gets you into trouble. The real tragedy here is not so much that the ticknock range is now in trouble; the real tragedy is that it didn't have to be

Seriously guys - the only way to prevent another 1972 is to ensure everyone thinks well of us and doesn't think that we're some secretive dangerous bunch whose sport wouldn't be that great a loss!

skellig

REW Its you who is out of touch with reality. Who treats non-shooters as the "enemy" dont be silly whats with the enemy lingo (far fron reality talk REW)

I treat everyone equally and my contribution is as valid as anyone else on boards.

I still maintain a Clubs privacy in such delicate matters should be respected by all us shooters. I wonder would you or anyone on these boards be dumb enough to broadcast and highlight their Club planning details or any other business of their Range on a format such as this---(I think not )

We are all aware these things are available to be viewed on the official Planning Websites (Thats hardly the point ) Planning at any time is a delicate issue especially these days ---so why not give it a break especially in the interest of Ticknock

Sparks

skellig wrote:

I still maintain a Clubs privacy in such delicate matters should be respected by all us shooters.

What privacy, exactly?
Last I checked, there was good reason for such matters to be, by law, matters in the public domain.

I wonder would you or anyone on these boards be dumb enough to broadcast and highlight their Club planning details or any other business of their Range on a format such as this---(I think not )

Last I looked, RRPC's plans were in the public domain and not just from An Bord Planala, they're up on their website and elsewhere, as were details of the process, and their process has been commented on by the NTSA and others in public. And so far, they look like they're going to have the premier facility on the east coast for smallbore shooting, and one of the best pistol and airgun setups as well. If you ask me - and even if you don't - you can't hide from publicity as it seems you'd like to, so you'd better learn to use it to your advantage.

We are all aware these things are available to be viewed on the official Planning Websites (Thats hardly the point ) Planning at any time is a delicate issue especially these days ---so why not give it a break especially in the interest of Ticknock

Because not talking about it is what got the LRPC in trouble in the first place!

skellig

Sparks all I can say is --dont take up card playing!!:D

Sparks

Skellig, all I can say is - applying for planning permission is not poker, and looking after our sport's best interests is not a game. We should be promoting it incessently - cheering our dedicated shooters, celebrating every medal, promoting every match, applauding everyone who helps; not hiding away keeping quiet and hoping that noone notices that a fullbore firing range just opened for business! Didn't anything get learnt about the quietly, quietly approach from the pistol ban in the UK?

rrpc

Just to echo what Sparks said about our range and the application process. We spoke to all the residents in the vicinity, spoke to the Gardai and County Council in advance asking for their advice on the best of three proposed sites for the new range, carried out noise and flora & fauna surveys, undertook to do the same one year after the opening of the range, and kept a dialogue going with all interested parties throughout the process. Although we received some objections, we used them as a guide as to what we needed in our application to reassure all interested parties. I have offered our application to anyone who is interested in getting planning permission for a range, but needless to say, (bar one clay pigeon club), my door hasn't been knocked down with requests for copies.

BRC shooting club also got planning permission for their range in consultation with South Dublin County Council, as did Midland. All these were successful, which gives the lie to the 'keeping cards close to your chest' argument.

Rew

Dont know what to make of this:

http://www.finegael.ie/fine-gael-news.cfm/year/2006/month/2/action/detail/newsid/27606/level/page/aid/138/

Samson

Here's another, looks like one is a rehash of the other:
http://www.finegael.ie/fine-gael-news.cfm/year/2006/month/2/action/detail/newsid/27605/level/page/aid/138/

sidneyreilly

If all posters will please take note that Skellig is not a member of the LRPC commitee, nor does he/she officially speak for LRPC (we have know way of knowing if he/she is even a member.). LRPC like other clubs prefers not to use the boards for official discussion.

civdef

Re the hunting, as long as the people hunting have rights to hunt on the ground and it is carried out safely, then it's entirely legal. It would be interesting to know if it's now Fine Gael official policy to curtail the rights of landowners carrying out legal activities on their land.

Anyone want to ask Olivia Mitchell that one?

Vegeta

wow that is just amazing, talk about propaganda, that's a lovely un-biased article NOT

Sparks

Where's the LRPC's official public response?

Clash

Sparks wrote:

Where's the LRPC's official public response?

I think Skellig has it, up his jumper as close to his chest as possible