UTV have sank to a new low!

Lionheart

dub45 wrote:

Why not email them and ask them for a copy of the Terms and Conditions which were in force when you signed up on May8th 2005? Seems a perfectly reasonable request to me.

Thats seems like a reasonable request all right but in view of UTV's total disreguard for their customers, I'd be surprised if they replied. UTV do not want any of their customers to be aware of their T&Cs except when its in UTVs own interest. Their website, as far as I can see, only shows the current T&Cs and the immediate past ones.

MarkR

I signed up in april 2004, and am mid-transfer to Digiweb. I got the transfer limit email today, so decided to make a complaint. I telephoned them but the agent only advised me to send my complaint to complaints@u.tv.

So i did.

Hello,

My name is Mark Robert, account number XXXXXXXXXX. I noticed on your website that my previous download limit has been changed to a transfer limit. This would obviously affect my upload ability and usage of the service using bit torrent applications. This came into affect after the upgrade of the exchanges by eircom, so this wasn't a case of my accepting it by using the increased speed.

I signed up in April 2004, and according to the contract, my transfer limit would have been specified on the website.

6.5 You will be entitled to a monthly data transfer limit as specified from time to time on the website, u.tv/clicksilver. If you go over this limit we reserve the right to charge you for any excess data transfer at 1.5c per Mb.

When I signed up the website would have specified an 8gb transfer limit. I haven't signed any new contract, or accepted any new terms and conditions, so how can UTV make a unilateral change to the contract?

This goes against your own terms and conditions

16.1.2 by you giving 7 days notice if we inform you of a material change to the Service or we give notice of an amendment to this
Agreement pursuant to Clause 17 where such changes are to your detriment;

The new terms and conditions advise of a fee of €29.99. The old ones only advise that UTV reserve the right, and no figure is mentioned. In this case it can't be said that I agreed to a termination fee of €29.99. This implies that in the likely event I do decide to transfer to another provider outside of the minimum terms of the contract there will be no termination fee. Is this correct?

Lastly, your lack of communication and apathy to your customers has disappointed me and many of your customers.


I look forward to hearing your response to my queries.

Regards,

Mark Robert

I reckon this will fall into a black hole, or will be perhaps answered so that the reply may meet my future grandchildren!

Oh, and the T&C for before june 05 is http://u.tv/utvclicksilver/tandc_upto_20050701.asp

tomk

The point I was making earlier is that, although we are all convinced that Clicksilver came with a download limit but no upload limit, all T&C versions, including the pre-July-05 one, and going back to Apr 2004 (Thanks The Monster) use the phrase "data transfer limit", as quoted to me by UTV, and by MarkR to UTV. It's still a cause for complaint, but I don't think it looks like a breach of their T&Cs - more like a decision, for whatever reason, to enforce existing T&Cs that customers have already accepted.

I'm not making excuses for them here - even if my worst-case interpretation is correct, they should have recognised the impact such a change would have, and advised customers accordingly. I'm just being realistic, IMO - at the end of the day, the T&Cs will always carry more weight than, say, info on the website or emails stating that there is no upload limit.

MarkR

tomk wrote:

The point I was making earlier is that, although we are all convinced that Clicksilver came with a download limit but no upload limit, all T&C versions, including the pre-July-05 one, and going back to Apr 2004 (Thanks The Monster) use the phrase "data transfer limit", as quoted to me by UTV, and by MarkR to UTV. It's still a cause for complaint, but I don't think it looks like a breach of their T&Cs - more like a decision, for whatever reason, to enforce existing T&Cs that customers have already accepted.

I'm not making excuses for them here - even if my worst-case interpretation is correct, they should have recognised the impact such a change would have, and advised customers accordingly. I'm just being realistic, IMO - at the end of the day, the T&Cs will always carry more weight than, say, info on the website or emails stating that there is no upload limit.

Agreed, it's just that the transfer limit refers to the notification on the website, which was always noted as download.

dub45

tomk wrote:

The point I was making earlier is that, although we are all convinced that Clicksilver came with a download limit but no upload limit, all T&C versions, including the pre-July-05 one, and going back to Apr 2004 (Thanks The .....................................I'm just being realistic, IMO - at the end of the day, the T&Cs will always carry more weight than, say, info on the website or emails stating that there is no upload limit.

This seems to be yet another example of the cute hoorism that has pervaded UTV over the past few years. As a matter of interest what language do they use where they provide the option to cut a customer off if the limit is exceeded?

Do they refer to download in this or data transfer.

I have no doubt that the emphasis has always been on the download but as you say the T&C's will always win out and that is the way it should be even if it does not suit in this case. But as I have pointed out many times UTV will observe the T&C's when it suits them but when it doesn't they can ignore them very easily indeed:mad:

tomk

MarkR - I never thought of it that way. The T&Cs refer you to the website, and the website says download....hmm.

Dub45 - I've just signed in to my account, and gone to the Cap Choice facility, where you choose whether you get charged or cut off for going over the limit. There is no mention of the data transfer limit specified in the T&Cs, but there are four references to the user's download cap.

Whether that makes any difference is beyond me.

dub45

tomk wrote:

MarkR - I never thought of it that way. The T&Cs refer you to the website, and the website says download....hmm.

Dub45 - I've just signed in to my account, and gone to the Cap Choice facility, where you choose whether you get charged or cut off for going over the limit. There is no mention of the data transfer limit specified in the T&Cs, but there are four references to the user's download cap.

Whether that makes any difference is beyond me.

Well it confirms very definitely what we have been thinking that in day to day practise the emphasis was on the download rather than the upload. this means that while the letter of the law as in the T&C's may say transfer the 'spirit' and actual practise on the UTV side was download. So they are up to their cute hoorism again. When UTV notify you of being cut off (or do they do) what terminology do they use? What terminology do they use in their billing system for exceeding the cap?

I know its unlikely but has anyone ever been cut off or billed for uploading too much?

Lionheart

I know that a number of UTVs customers have been disconnected becauae they have exceeded the combined download and upload cap unilaterally imposed by UTV.

Has anyone been able to get reconnected. What stance are UTV taking?

I can't see how UTV can stand over the combined d/l and u/l cap when their website still shows it as a download cap. This page was amended by UTV after their new caps were applied - so its not as if its an old page which they forgot to update.

pat kenny

Was just looking at my UTV account and there is now a "go unlimited" option which says for €6 extra you can have completely uncapped access.
It is curtailed a little during peak times but outside of them its not.
Interesting.

NIBBS

Lionheart wrote:

I know that a number of UTVs customers have been disconnected becauae they have exceeded the combined download and upload cap unilaterally imposed by UTV.

Has anyone been able to get reconnected. What stance are UTV taking?

I can't see how UTV can stand over the combined d/l and u/l cap when their website still shows it as a download cap. This page was amended by UTV after their new caps were applied - so its not as if its an old page which they forgot to update.

Hey Lionheart,

I haven't been reconnected, and they haven't even bothered to reply to my request to do so, which also included questions about the apparent "unlimited" usage and why they were now including Upload's aswell as downloads without informing anybody of the change, I did receive the auto-mail informing me of just how busy their support people are, but that was on the 6th of Feb, they must have millions of customers who have tonnes of problems, or maybe they just couldn't be bothered......

I'd say by the end of next month they'll have a hell of a lot less customers and will have more time to answer their customers questions and requests......

dub45

Lionheart wrote:

I know that a number of UTVs customers have been disconnected becauae they have exceeded the combined download and upload cap unilaterally imposed by UTV.

Has anyone been able to get reconnected. What stance are UTV taking?

I can't see how UTV can stand over the combined d/l and u/l cap when their website still shows it as a download cap. This page was amended by UTV after their new caps were applied - so its not as if its an old page which they forgot to update.

Moaning here is not going to do much good email them and let them know you are not happy with their 'cute hoorism' thats the only way to get through to them if they are gettable through to:rolleyes:

spurious

Or just leave them and tell them why - that's what I'm doing.

Lionheart

spurious wrote:

Or just leave them and tell them why - that's what I'm doing.

Also be sure to warn off any potential new customers. I have changed from being an advocate for UTV to being the total opposite.

The most effective action is that which hits UTV's revenue.

fmul9798

Well, after suggestions here to email "spawn 2" ("spawn" being '...of the devil') about my T&Cs, and not getting any response for 3 days, I have given up. I refuse to call them, as I want everything in emails for obvious reasons, given the "cute hoorism" which is clearly afoot.

I have put in my order to switch to BT - only need 1Mb service, and don't really use spawn 2's free calls, so 35 euro per month including line rental is perfect for me (Smart is not available to me). I only have March & April's service payments to make, and then I'm out of their contract for good. I may even try to claim these months back, based on their refusal to respond to my questions regarding cancelling the service - I am extremely glad I make my monthly payment via credit card...

-fm

jank

Im ditching them aswell for. Getting the 3MB line 30 GB cap and line rental for 50 a month. Does anyone know how much extra their phone service is on top of that. I would like to get all 2 in one bill and I presume BT accomidates that.

Wondering what the price would be for their Talk plus or whatever they call it

They offer Talk plus and line rental for 39 per month but no where can I find all 3 services together
Anybody know about this?

kaizersoze

Have a read of this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054885039
It will give you an idea.
1mb BT BB including line rental & BT anytime calls package €49.82
Thats €14.82 extra for the calls package.

Sully

UPDATE::

An un-offical (as such) announcment on the UTV Newsgroup from Carl has been made::

Today the cap was changed from usage back to download only. I
haven't been given any official announcement about this, but it's my
team that look after the capping mechanism.

I'm hoping to get something official come Monday. I know the customers
who were cut off for over-usage have been re-enabled, and all the folk
who received warnings will need to be contacted.

IIRC there was no actual announcement about us changing the caps to
usage in the first place, and the same may happen again. Even so,
I'm pretty sure that the amount of customer complaints generated over
this issue is what directly forced the reversal. Roll on the next
gripe.


Carl.

Fighting Irish

Valentia wrote:

I have just seen on the UTV support newsgroup that they have changed their cap policy. The cap now includes uploads. So not only have they the worst cap allowance, in practice it is even lower than it looks. 12 gig for 2Mb line is bad enough but with the new arrangement that will work out worse for some people than the previous 8Gig cap!!

It really makes my blood boil to see a company so engulfed by greed that it looses complete sight of its customers. I'm waiting for BT to connect so I'll be gone soon. I'd urge everyone else to get out as fast as you can. Please dont support a company that has become greedier than Eircom and even more dismissive of their customers. I know it's a pain to move but right is right.

BT are 30 gig up and 30 gig down for the 3Mb line. UTV are 20 Gig and that will probably really mean 14 to 16. You really would need you head examined to stay with them.

Uploadinf, why the **** would you care about that, just stop using torrents

iano

Roll on the next gripe.

UTV have collapsed in the face of Customer outrage.
The above quote shows however that they have learned sweet fa from the incident.

Ostrich Syndrome indeed!

tomk

Changing the cap back to download only may be good news for some, but the fact remains that the T&Cs specify a data transfer limit, not a download limit.

If anyone is now thinking of staying with UTV (and that's still a big IF, AFAICS) they should follow up the official announcement, if and when it is made, with a demand for a formal amendment to the relevant T&C clause 6.5 - something along these lines:

6.5 You will be entitled to a monthly data download limit as specified from time to time on the website, u.tv/clicksilver. No limit will be applied to data upload.

mike65

iano wrote:

UTV have collapsed in the face of Customer outrage.
The above quote shows however that they have learned sweet fa from the incident.

Ostrich Syndrome indeed!

Carl was being a bit ironic in that message - he knows his bosses are idiots.

Mike.

DinoBot

mike65 wrote:

Carl was being a bit ironic in that message - he knows his bosses are idiots.

Mike.

Hi Mike65,

I notice in your signature you have a "support Denmark" banner (as do a lot of people).

Denmark has apologised for the cartoons so are you saying you support the apology ??? Or are you trying to make some misguided stance for free speach. If so your banner should read "Dont support Denmark, support free speech"

***to mod: I know its off topic!!!******

Please read

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1698673,00.html

Lionheart

tomk wrote:

Changing the cap back to download only may be good news for some, but the fact remains that the T&Cs specify a data transfer limit, not a download limit.

If anyone is now thinking of staying with UTV (and that's still a big IF, AFAICS) they should follow up the official announcement, if and when it is made, with a demand for a formal amendment to the relevant T&C clause 6.5 - something along these lines:

UTV are will keeping all the draconian clauses in their T&C. unchanged.
If UTV genuienly listen to customers complaints, as Carl has stated caused them to reverse the decision on the caps, they should remove all the other penal charges as well.

Otherwise we can take the notion that they listen to customer complaints with a grain of salt.

KOR1

The caps change is one thing, but it doesn't change the fact that UTV are about 15 euros more expensive than BT.

I think UTV are looking to milk their existing market share. Better go with a company that feels the need to be competitive.

Lionheart

KOR1 wrote:

The caps change is one thing, but it doesn't change the fact that UTV are about 15 euros more expensive than BT.

I think UTV are looking to milk their existing market share. Better go with a company that feels the need to be competitive.

UTV stepped back from being competitive when they failed to match download limit increases by Eicom and BT 12 months ago.

Unless there is a total u-turn, I can't see UTV competing price-wise for the foreseeable future.

Also, UTV are trying to put every obstacle in the path of their customers who wish to leave.

macronot

KOR1 wrote:

The caps change is one thing, but it doesn't change the fact that UTV are about 15 euros more expensive than BT.

I think UTV are looking to milk their existing market share. Better go with a company that feels the need to be competitive.

KOR1
Now I'm not defending U.tv as i am leaving myself. The prices are actually very similar. U have to take into account that you are looking at bundled products.

If you break it down - both broadband package cost the same. Where the difference is, is in the telephone packages. BTs telecoms is just a standard 10% less than Eircom package.
While utv telecom has free calls in it.

If you want a similar telephone package from BT u will pay 14 euro more.

I am personally moving as I don't really avail of the telecoms package at u.tv so it makes sense to move and save the 14-15 euros.
(I would probably have moved because of the caps as well)

bush

I must be the only one staying, ha

Beano

bush wrote:

I must be the only one staying, ha

I think me and you might end up as UTVs last two customers. I've never had a problem with them so I've no intention of going through the pain of moving suppliers.

bedrock1001

Ill third that

I don't want to lose my UTV (DNA) email address and it is just too much hassle to move at the moment for me

dub45

bedrock1001 wrote:

Ill third that

I don't want to lose my UTV (DNA) email address and it is just too much hassle to move at the moment for me

You can hold on to you email address if you change isps.