Public-v-Private school

hotasfunk

smemon wrote:

is that a joke at the end?! by human nature everyone isnt going to teach the same or learn the same so how you'd expect to standardise results is beyond me and de-railing my point about equal opportunities, not equal results.

im not saying everyone should get the same results and the exact same education as in the same courses etc.. choice and variety is good. but im saying that you shouldnt be allowed buy or pay for success. it's much sweeter when you earn it by yourself, not when your parents pay for it. i dont think people appreciate that, they just take their wealth for granted once theyre brought up with it.

My God. You are a tool. Your parents arent paying for you to get 550 in the LC, you have to do that yourself. Its the same for everyone. The money goes towards better teaches, better atmosphere, smaller classes, better conditions etc. Its not a bribe to get you good results! I dont think you appreciate that, you're taking you're knowledge for granted.

hotasfunk

deisedolly wrote:

And how exactly?
Your talking some load of sh*te

How exactly? Oh I dont know, perhaps the reults of the Leaving Cert which are published every year? They kind of prove that there is a higher average for private schools. That makes us better. Now please refrain from further posting, your denial is beginning to annoy me.

smemon

hotasfunk wrote:

I cant believe there are so many people in public schools, it must be really hard for you :cool:

Id actually die if I went to a public school.

Public school = Northside.

Sure everyone in the class would be looking at you the whole day waiting for the right time to nick your car keys and iPod.

see look, this is what i mean. if you are indeed a private school student, why don't you appreciate it and realise you have a big advantage and more of a chance to do well than your public school colleagues.

the world doesnt revolve around dublin or you, your lucky to have food and clothes, never mind ipod's and cars, not to mention your education which you obviously take for granted.

Baggly

hotasfunk wrote:

Now please refrain from further posting, your denial is beginning to annoy me.

your attitude annoys me.

private schools have higher rates of lc points and also have higher rates of repeat leaving cert candidates.

they also have tools like you.

having you in my class would certainly encourage me to get the hell out of there .

hotasfunk

Id actually like to apologise to those of you who go to public schools outside of Dublin. I can understand that as I believe there are far less outside of Dublin.

Its in the capital that I am referring to, as Id never go to a public school here. They're far worse places, especially on the Northside.

To those of you not in Dublin, please disregard what Im saying about public schools, as it is not aimed at you.

Baggly

you speak from experience?

hotasfunk

In a way, yes. I have never been to a public school (my primary was, though). Although, my school play public schools in football, tennis, etc, and you can see the conditions and the way the pupils behave. Its far worse, and its been in the papers and on the news, there's no denying it.

Baggly

hotasfunk wrote:

In a way, yes.

so you mean no

please, you cant base a judgement on that (reasonably) based on going to other schools to play sports.

everyone acts like an idiot in front of other teams, its very disorientating.

and with regard to news reports, they only focus on, if you will excuse my french, sh*** holes. the good northside public schools dont get a look in cause they are too busy minding their own business to emphasise themselves for a budget extension from the dept of education

katiegordon

hotasfunk wrote:

Id actually like to apologise to those of you who go to public schools outside of Dublin. I can understand that as I believe there are far less outside of Dublin.

Its in the capital that I am referring to, as Id never go to a public school here. They're far worse places, especially on the Northside.

To those of you not in Dublin, please disregard what Im saying about public schools, as it is not aimed at you.

Oh my god you dont havent a clue what youre talking about!How dare you generalise people like that.Id rather go to a public school anyday than go to school with someone like you.
And why are you trying to start a north -v- south argument!?!
Coming from the southside imtelling you im telling you i know peope and places over there far "posher" than any ive seen on the southside!

hotasfunk

katiegordon wrote:

Oh my god you dont havent a clue what youre talking about!How dare you generalise people like that.Id rather go to a public school anyday than go to school with someone like you.
And why are you trying to start a north -v- south argument!?!
Coming from the southside imtelling you im telling you i know peope and places over there far "posher" than any ive seen on the southside!

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

cianclarke

hotasfunk wrote:

I cant believe there are so many people in public schools, it must be really hard for you :cool:

Id actually die if I went to a public school.

Public school = Northside.

Sure everyone in the class would be looking at you the whole day waiting for the right time to nick your car keys and iPod.

I go to a public school. The building is pretty poor, the heating substandard and the department is nowhere to help - but we have the best teachers, and are possibly the best sporting school in the country. We're competing with brand new schools, and yet still we're top in the league tables for our county, beating a fee paying school (bruce). Enough said?

I think more money then sense applies quite a lot of the time (see above). All that I've ever seen (a southern perspective) is people are sent to a private school for sixth year by mummy and daddy because their little Johnny wasn't doing a toss in school, and they want a result they can boast about to all the other mummies and daddies at the golf club. "Mine got 550 points, and it only cost me 3k... Yeah? I paid 4, and got 600...".

Is the above a bit of a generalization? Yeah, just thought I'd jump on the bandwagon... It's the case a lot of the time.

Baggly

hotasfunk wrote:

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

nice.

really using those private school brains tonight

katiegordon

hotasfunk wrote:

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

Oh dear you havent a clue.
God help you when youre sent out into the big bad world............

hotasfunk

cianclarke wrote:

I go to a public school. The building is pretty poor, the heating substandard and the department is nowhere to help - but we have the best teachers, and are possibly the best sporting school in the country. We're competing with brand new schools, and yet still we're top in the league tables for our county, beating a fee paying school (bruce). Enough said?

I think more money then sense applies quite a lot of the time (see above). All that I've ever seen (a southern perspective) is people are sent to a private school for sixth year by mummy and daddy because their little Johnny wasn't doing a toss in school, and they want a result they can boast about to all the other mummies and daddies at the golf club. "Mine got 550 points, and it only cost me 3k... Yeah? I paid 4, and got 600...".

Is the above a bit of a generalization? Yeah, just thought I'd jump on the bandwagon... It's the case a lot of the time.

Nah man, most people are in private schools for the full six years, rarely are they just put there for 6th year; its hard to adjust and the course is usually into its revision stages.

Must say though, looked at your site and some of your photography is very good. Nice one.

JackKelly

hotasfunk wrote:

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

wahey. Hotasfunk banned for trolling/snobbing and personal attacks.

Let's try and get this back on topic and keep away from a n.side s.side debate

abercrombie

hotasfunk wrote:

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

are you trying to give people in private schools a bad name around here!?!

Raphael

TimAy wrote:

wahey. Hotasfunk banned for trolling/snobbing and personal attacks.

Let's try and get this back on topic and keep away from a n.side s.side debate

nutball

cianclarke wrote:

I think more money then sense applies quite a lot of the time (see above). All that I've ever seen (a southern perspective) is people are sent to a private school for sixth year by mummy and daddy because their little Johnny wasn't doing a toss in school, and they want a result they can boast about to all the other mummies and daddies at the golf club. "Mine got 550 points, and it only cost me 3k... Yeah? I paid 4, and got 600...".

I assume you're talking here about grind schools like the Institute or Bruce. This is from the Irish Independent, 30th November 2005:
"Last year the Institute sent a total of 347 students to one or other of the universities (259 to UCD and 88 to Trinity). This year's combined numbers from the Institute jumped to 445 (313 to UCD and 132 to TCD)."

The Institute is very good at massaging statistics to look good and very often their detractors use the same methods to criticise them. The thing is that while 445 students sounds like an awful lot, it's actually only about 59% of the year. The numbers they send to other universities are negligible. So even if we're very generous taking other colleges, ITs and universities abroad into the equation and say 70% of Institute students in any given year go on to university, that means 30% don't at all. And seeing as the whole point of going to the Institute is to get into college, that's not a terribly impressive statistic. What kind of points did that 30% get that they didn't get a single course on their CAO?

Also, it says on the Institute's website that 20% of their students get over 500 points. Knowing how they generally arrive at their statistics, I can say with a high degree of confidence that that includes students who actually go to other schools but take a grind or two at the Institute - they're still classed as 'Institute students'.

There is no denying that the tuition there is excellent but it's no guarantee of success. You still have to put in just as much of your own work as a student anywhere else. I will concede that the Institute does have a much better 'learning atmosphere' than other schools and class disruption is pretty much non-existent. But before going there, I spent five years in an 'ordinary' private school in Dublin which on a good day had a lot more in common with Sarajevo than Mallory Towers. The teachers were abysmal; class size was average; most of the facilities were nothing to shout about; and the attitude of most of the students was incredibly bad. It is consistently beaten in the Leaving Cert rank tables by the public school that I wanted to go to. Out of my original year, I think six of us made it into Trinity and stayed. That's 5.7%.

Most private schools are somewhat better-equipped than mine was but they're still not a surefire bet for academic success. I think you'll find that public schools in similar, comfortable areas, produce similar results and that there are students in less salubrious areas who manage to come up with the goods. This is because obviously, much of it is down to personal potential but home environment and encouragment plays a big role too.

ETA: I'd just like to mention that most of us weren't snotty rich kids with houses in the south of France and enormous Mercs picking us up. The vast majority of the people I know from school come from ordinary middle-class families who live in estates in the suburbs, drive pretty modest family cars and make certain sacrifices to pay the fees and do what they feel is best for their children.

Rockerette

im embarassed by pretty much everything hotasfunk had said about public schools...

yeah i go to a private one, but i see NOTHING wrong with public ones at all...

Rockerette

"Originally Posted by Rockerette
But seriosuly, ok maybe as a gerneral rule, but not everyone who goes to a private school is stinkin rich.. we dont all drive mercs (my family has a nissan ) all our "daddies" are high up in society... "

Shrimp wrote:

It actually is like that. I don't mean to sound all pretentious, but it is that way.

I can tell you that, Dads in Mercs, Moms in MPVs/4WD's and sons/daughters in 01+ cars is the reality of it. People who can afford to send their children to private schools can usually afford these things. That's not a snobbish attitude, it makes sense when you think of it.

Are you just disagreeing with me, despite what i said????
Its not ALWAYS like that... Yeah, theres some people like that, but theres an awful lot in my school who are "normal" as they say..

InFront

went to a private school for the jc, know lots of people who did well there, know lots of people who did really really crap.

then i moved back home and went to a public school (actually not just a public school but a vocational school!) for the leaving cert. i know lots of people who did really well and lots of people who did really badly. i got good jc results from wilson's and good lc results from the vocational.

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

Aporia

I'm suprised at the results I must say. Is private schools a Dublin thing or something because in cork the minority of Leaving Cert students attend private schools.

I went to a public school from 1st to 6th and I'm currently repeating in a private school.

It's about the student and the effort they make not the school they go to.

Just because you attend a private school does not make you a better person. That's just a pathetic way of thinking.

Shrimp

Rockerette wrote:

Are you just disagreeing with me, despite what i said????
Its not ALWAYS like that... Yeah, theres some people like that, but theres an awful lot in my school who are "normal" as they say..

na, I think everyone in my class is prolly in that situation, or partially in it.

It really depends ont he prvt school too..

abercrombie

Shrimp wrote:

na, I think everyone in my class is prolly in that situation, or partially in it.

It really depends ont he prvt school too..

yeah i agree, it depends on the school. But then again, in my school not everyone is driving around in mercs and the like and whenever somebody points that fact out people are like "yeah right...everyone in your school is blah blah rich blah blah has a fancy car blah blah blah!" You just can't win!!

Time Magazine

Personally, I like purchasing my educational credentials.

Simply because my father is wealthy, I can afford to go a private institution who charge exorbitant fees. The aforementioned fees provide funds for recruiting the best teachers from the public sector and thus keep those proles down.

With a fine array of teachers, I achieve academic superiority.

Like I said, I like purchasing my educational credentials.

MaxBax

Wow AngryB you're so wrong. I know you're aware that private school teachers don't get paid more than public school teachers and are STILL paid by the department of education NOT the school its self. And I'd assume you know that most teachers in private schools choose to teach in private schools because it either was the school most convienent to them or they wished to work with students who, on average, were more likely to be interestested and enthuisastic about the subjects, and making their job better. Probably the better staff rooms too.

Assmaster_Kronk

Aporia wrote:

It's about the student and the effort they make not the school they go to.

Just because you attend a private school does not make you a better person. That's just a pathetic way of thinking.

Too right. I go to a private school, but i have plenty of friends in public ones. The quality of a person can't be measured by how much your parents can pay for school, that goes for public and private students.

Time Magazine

MaxBax wrote:

Wow AngryB you're so wrong.

That's good to know.

I know you're aware that private school teachers don't get paid more than public school teachers and are STILL paid by the department of education NOT the school its self.

That's quite a fallacious statement. "Private schools" is not as specific a term as you may want it to be. Registered private schools (not private educational institutions, which are also, technically, private schools) are Department-based and are often supplmented by private wages. Additionally I can, if I so desire, set up my own so-called "grind school".

And I'd assume

You would.

And I'd assume you know that most teachers in private schools choose to teach in private schools because it either was the school most convienent to them or they wished to work with students who, on average, were more likely to be interestested and enthuisastic about the subjects, and making their job better. Probably the better staff rooms too.

Right, so "convenience" aside, what you're saying is that private schools are more desirable for teachers. That's a good point, and is essentially the same point I made above. Taking the nicer staff rooms as an example, I'd assume you know that they're funded primarily by fees.

Basic intuition (and I'd assume you know what that is) will state that if one job is more desirable than another it will have a greater supply of applicants. This provides the school with two things: a greater choice of teachers, and greater bargaining power. Both of which lead to better teachers being employed, and ultimately better teaching for the kids.

My argument, as made above, is that the simple fact that their parents' wealth (and I'm assuming you don't pay for fees from your own return on labour) results in better teaching and, on average, better educational credentials.

I like to repeat my original mantra that I like to buy my educational credentials. I'd also like to supplement this with the statement "Wow MaxBax, you're so wrong."

RefulgentGnomon

hotasfunk wrote:

Going to a public school and living on the Southside should be illegal. Pack your bags and get the bus over to the Northside please. Pov.

I'm guessing you're trying to stir sh!t her but if you're not, "what you need my son,is a holiday in Cambodia"

xha1r

Angry Banana wrote:

Personally, I like purchasing my educational credentials.

Simply because my father is wealthy, I can afford to go a private institution who charge exorbitant fees. The aforementioned fees provide funds for recruiting the best teachers from the public sector and thus keep those proles down.

With a fine array of teachers, I achieve academic superiority.

Like I said, I like purchasing my educational credentials.

Ledge.

That means "legend" by the way, for you simple folk.