Southside snobbery what about Northside snobbery?

SpAcEd OuT

even worse.......blanchardstown the ghetto of ireland

SxE Punk

Sigh, first of all, I'm glad for the way I've had to grow up, you can stick your Blue Peter badge and your condescending bull**** up your ass superdub.

And I've been forced into fighting people, I'm not violent, and I'm rarely, only in extreme circumstances, the first person to throw a punch. But sometimes a fight is unavoidable, it just happens, I can take random insults being yelled at me, I've grown used it, its just a part of being different. But when someone physically interferes with me or my friends the gloves are off. And super dub, I never said the fights I've been in had anything to do with background, though I'm sorry, I can see how that may have been implied. To look at me or hear me speak you couldn't guess where I'm from, however you can tell right off the bat that I'm different just by looking at me, thats generally where the abuse comes from, and I'm not lookin for sympathy there either, I couldn't live my life any other way.

And I'm not really sure if Spaced Out was being being sarcastic or what there, but Blanchardstown, especially where I live, is very much a ghetto.

iregk

Sxe Punk I think whilst trying to convey the reasons for the divide you have just put forward yourself as a prime example of what people are talking about here when they are talking about skangers.

Your comment: "I've kicked the **** outta people from D4 to D15" showed your true class. Very well done.

SxE Punk

Just because I'm decent at fighting doesn't mean I like it. As I explained, it wasn't my choice to get into fights, it just happens. The only fights I've ever been in have been in self defense.

And please, don't call me a skanger or compare to one in any capacity. I find that highly offensive. I'm a punk(this is why I get **** for my appearance), so I don't look like a skanger. I don't have a particular Irish accent anymore, you can tell I'm from Ireland, but you couldn't pinpoint where from by hearing me, so I don't sound like a skanger, and I'm SxE, so I don't act like a skanger. I'm not anything like those people and I'm proud of it, so don't compare me to one please.

AARRRGH

SxE Punk, I'm sorry, but you're making yourself out to be a scumbag with a chip on his shoulder.

You don't think southsiders have it hard too? Imagine getting the **** kicked out of you just because you have a posh accent, imagine the horrendous pressure placed on your shoulders because your parents are rich and you're expected to make yourself rich too, imagine the pressure when you're expected to get 450+ points in your leaving cert.

Everywhere has it problems. Everyone has to fight to get where they want to go (you use violence, others have to use study etc.)

Take the stupid chip off your shoulder!

SxE Punk

Seriously man this is starting to get annoying. How many times need I explain to you that I don't start fights, I end up getting into them through circumstances beyond my control, before you people get it? I'm not gonna discuss that point anymore, unless you have exceptionally poor reading comprehension, or you are some how mentally disabled, it should be fairly easy for you to understand.

Besides which your point is ridiculous, what do you think? That north siders don't strive to get high points in their leaving cert and make a little scrilla in life? Not all people from the north side wanna spend their lives drinkin on the corner. Its just alot harder to acheive these things when you go to a crappy public school and live in a goddamn ghetto.

And as for using violence to solve my problems, another ridiculous point by the way, I only use violence to solve problems when violence against me becomes a problem. I didn't beat up my teachers and college admin officers to get where I am today, I used study too, believe it or not we unwashed heathens from the north side can read. Please, don't try to condescend me, you only embarrass yourself.

[Jackass]

Being from a poor or shit area dosen't make you a better person, or more deserving, or anything different. Having to fight for every penny, the working man! How noble...of course we all know the millionaires in D4 never did a days work in there life...they just didn't pay tax and it all built up in the bank :rolleyes:

Being from a wealthy area isn't something to be ashamed of.

Why would someone want to play down where they come from anyway? You are who you are, and it seems to me northsiders are the snobs with a chip on their shoulder who make an issue out of the whole thing...i've never found the need to abuse someone because of where they come from...if you're from D4 it's the first thing people mention (oohhh very posh!!).

If you're from, well, anywhere on the northside, i dont feel the need to say "Oooh scumbag" lol, only messing, but seriously, get over it...what's your problem? If you don't like these areas or people then don't associate with them.

Begrudgery lads that's all it is. Begrudgery.

And anybody who works hard for their leaving can do any course they want and loads of college goers are from public school!! The majority are! ...

Private schools have the same books and sit the same exam, so your "we don't have the oppertunitys" argument is out the door too!!

And even if you didn't get the same oppertunities as someone else, is that a reason to hate them? It's not their fault, and they didn't get them at your expense either...

Inferiority complex...I couldn't give a toss where you're from, and as for fighting people because of where they come from?? that makes you a scumbag regardless of where you're from.

SxE Punk

When did I say that I've even started a fight? Much less started one because of where someone is from? I sincerly hope you and dublindude didn't go to private school, because if you did, your Ebglish comprehension is disproving my argument all by itself

Sigh, the majority of college goers are from public schools because the majority of schools are public....I would've thought that was fairly obvious, again, please don't tell me you were private schooled.

Private school students are thought the same courses with the same text books, thats true. But they have better teachers, more resources, and lets face it, the study body the average public school doesn't exactly promote learning. Regardless of whether you went to a public(becoming more and more likely) or private school, tell me: how many drug dealers and car thieves was there in your year?

And when did I ever say I hated anyone based on anything? I said that I'm happy to have grown up how I did, and I pity the south siders that grew up in an ivory tower. I don't remember mentioning hate anywhere.

AARRRGH

SxE: the fact that you are a punk makes me think you are quite young.

Anyway, you have a total chip on your shoulder. You think you have had it so hard that it has made you a great person who can see things no one else can.

I have some news for you: NO ONE HAS AN EASY LIFE.

When you're a few years older you'll see you are being exceptionally naive.

Private schools certainly get better school results, and your chance of success in life is increased with a private school. Even simply for the contacts you make. But again, with private schools comes huge pressure. A friend of mine, with doctor brother and sisters, got 300 points in his leaving cert after a very expensive Blackrock College education. He simply is not the academic type. His entire family saw him as a failure, and the pressure on him has turned him into an angry little boy... Even nice private schools come with their problems.

Sxe Punk: I know nothing about you, but I would be confident to say I've had a more difficult life than you. Money has nothing to do with it.

SxE Punk

Oh no, the pressures of having an asshole family, poor guy. The only pressure on me while sitting my leaving cert was the thought of working in MacDonalds or dealing drugs or fencing stolen cars like most of my class mates for the rest of my life and raising my kids in the same kinda ghetto I grew up in, it was a fscking breeze though, I wasn't sweatin it at all, seriously.

/sarcasm

Yes I'm young, but I'm not immature. And I don't see what that has to do with anything anyway? Or how you managed to link being a punk with being young, thats a bit presumptuous on your part I think.

"No one has had an easy life". Thats all relative to the point of view of each person. To some people I've had an easy life, and then others couldn't fathom what its like to live like me. And I never said the fates favor the rich, I'm not trying to imply that bad things don't happen to rich people, I'm sure you've had some bad sh1t happen you, we all have. But you can't honestly be trying to argue that the life of the average person living in D4 is as hard the life of a person living in some ghetto ass suburb?

AARRRGH

WTF? Grow up man. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Money just stops you from being homeless. It doesn't stop you from being abused - mentally, physically, sexually.

Everyone recovers from not having a playstation as a child.

Stop pretending life in Dublin is ghetto like. Dubs are well off, even the poor ones. Becomming a drug dealer or homeless is a choice you make.

Everyone has problems growing up. Stop living in fantasy world. You are not some kind of hero who has struggled and now has god like vision. You're just another teenager who has no idea what he's talking about...

(PS I'm sure you're a lovely bloke. You're just coming across as someone with the worlds biggest chip on his shoulder.)

SxE Punk

I guess we'll just have to agree to leave it at that then. I could sit here refuting your points and have you say "well what would you know?" all the live long day. But we're going in circles really.

"It doesn't stop you from being abused - mentally, physically, sexually."

I just wanted to point out that I already said that. The fates don't favor the rich I believe was how I put it.

And although you never answered me, you actually are claiming that its as easy for someone growing up in poverty as it is for someone growing up in D4? Thats crazy man, seriously, you might wanna reconsider that one, everyone has problems growing up, some more so than others though ya know? Not having a playstation? How about wearing second hand clothes til you were about eight?

Anyway yeah, this isn't even on topic anymore, and its getting us nowhere, plus I'm sure you're a nice guy that I'd rather not have to argue with anyway, so lets just let that be the end of it?

AARRRGH

Sorry, my previous post sounded much more aggressive than I felt. Apologies.

Of course, having extra cash will make your life a tad easier. But it's really a minor issue.

I don't care where someone is from. I wish people would react that way towards Blackrock/the southside.

...

lodgepole

SxE Punk wrote:

Private school students are thought the same courses with the same text books, thats true. But they have better teachers, more resources, and lets face it, the study body the average public school doesn't exactly promote learning. Regardless of whether you went to a public(becoming more and more likely) or private school, tell me: how many drug dealers and car thieves was there in your year?

Interestingly in my area of the North Side the private school I attended and the public school closer to my house faired almost identically in the Irish Times survey last year. Most of my friends went to the public school, and by way of comparison the teachers there seemed better than the teachers I had (who ranged from poor to excellent). There is a bit of a myth about private schools actually being better than public... They aren't. We certainly had nicer facilities (a swimming pool... large playing fields...) but in terms of education all the tools required are present in any school. There were four drug dealers in my year, and several people who had certainly stolen cars at some point, though I don't know you could call them full time car thieves. They had no impact on my education.

As a serious question to you SxE Punk why did you think while doing your leaving cert that it may lead to a lifetime of working in McDonalds or dealing drugs? Attending college is based only on the number of points you get, your appearance and address wouldn't have come into it. I did my leaving cert seven years ago and am from a relatively well off part of the city, but most of my friends have only just gotten themselves settled into decently waged positions. We do our fair share of ****ty jobs for ****ty pay.

Zulu

SxE Punk wrote:

I've kicked the **** outta people from D4 to D15 and its always for the same reason, prejudice...

A hardman...

...and I've been forced into fighting people, I'm not violent, and I'm rarely, only in extreme circumstances, the first person to throw a punch...

...but a gentleman.

...just because I'm decent at fighting doesn't mean I like it...

...but hard.

Yes I'm young, but I'm not immature. And I don't see what that has to do with anything anyway? Or how you managed to link being a punk with being young, thats a bit presumptuous on your part I think.

I don't think its presumptuous at all; you come across as a young teenage boy. People link your thinking "fighting is cool" to immaturity, not being a "punk" - although I'm fairly sure thats all part of it too. ...and before you deny it you DO think its cool - otherwise you wouldn't have a) mentioned it, or b) defended it. Juast as a matter of interest, how old are you? I'm guessing 15/16.

...and please, don't call me a skanger or compare to one in any capacity.

You make yourself out to be one. Blame no one but yourself.

fly_agaric

Dublindude wrote:

Of course, having extra cash will make your life a tad easier. But it's really a minor issue...

...until you haven't got it! Then it becomes a big issue. Not having to worry about money is like having good health in that way - easily taken for granted.

Zulu

fly_agaric wrote:

...until you haven't got it! Then it becomes a big issue. Not having to worry about money is like having good health in that way - easily taken for granted.

Funny thing about money, eveyone worries about it. Everyone. If your rich, you'll be worried about making more/loosing what you've got. If your poor, you'll be worried about debts. Granted I'd rather be worrying about loosing my money, than my house, but it's always a worry.

Life is relative. I could be far more stressed and unhappy in my life struggleing to make millions, and upgrade my house to a period home in Ballsbridge, than a person living in a council house in Darndale. It's relative.

Personally I've lived on both sides of the liffey and experienced life on both sides of the liffey.




...Fingal rulez, ok!

fly_agaric

Zulu wrote:

Funny thing about money, eveyone worries about it. Everyone. If your rich, you'll be worried about making more/loosing what you've got. If your poor, you'll be worried about debts. Granted I'd rather be worrying about loosing my money, than my house, but it's always a worry. Life is relative. I could be far more stressed and unhappy in my life struggleing to make millions, and upgrade my house to a period home in Ballsbridge, than a person living in a council house in Darndale. It's relative.

I see what you are getting at...but if you are quite comfortable you have the option (I suppose it depends on your personality whether you will take it or not) to chill out a little and not worry so much about making more and more cash to fuel your lifestyle dreams.

If you have no money and the wolf is at the door you have no option but to worry about the stuff and what the lack of it means for you (and your family).

Zulu wrote:

Personally I've lived on both sides of the liffey and experienced life on both sides of the liffey.

...Fingal rulez, ok!

These threads are kind of sad aren't they? It's why I post in them!:D

Superdub2

SxE Punk wrote:

Seriously man this is starting to get annoying. How many times need I explain to you that I don't start fights, I end up getting into them through circumstances beyond my control, before you people get it? I'm not gonna discuss that point anymore, unless you have exceptionally poor reading comprehension, or you are some how mentally disabled, it should be fairly easy for you to understand.

Besides which your point is ridiculous, what do you think? That north siders don't strive to get high points in their leaving cert and make a little scrilla in life? Not all people from the north side wanna spend their lives drinkin on the corner. Its just alot harder to acheive these things when you go to a crappy public school and live in a goddamn ghetto.

And as for using violence to solve my problems, another ridiculous point by the way, I only use violence to solve problems when violence against me becomes a problem. I didn't beat up my teachers and college admin officers to get where I am today, I used study too, believe it or not we unwashed heathens from the north side can read. Please, don't try to condescend me, you only embarrass yourself.

no you dont start fights, you are just so unlucky that you constantly get inot them and you always win cuz, as you hav said, you are so good at fighting! what a quality to possess, unless you fight professionally? and im not condescending, just call it as i see it.

you "plight" reminds me of a Steven Siegal movie

Superdub2

fly_agaric wrote:

I see what you are getting at...but if you are quite comfortable you have the option (I suppose it depends on your personality whether you will take it or not) to chill out a little and not worry so much about making more and more cash to fuel your lifestyle dreams.

If you have no money and the wolf is at the door you have no option but to worry about the stuff and what the lack of it means for you (and your family).



These threads are kind of sad aren't they? It's why I post in them!:D

you dont have the option to "chill out" if thats the type of person you are, it is who you are and there is nothing you can do it. to suggest a person , while granted they may be well off, who worries about sustaining their current lifestyle or making more money who is a natural worrier can just "chill out" is ludicrious

SxE Punk

Just wanna say one last thing on this topic as I've really said all I can.

I don't think fighting is cool, nor do I like to do it. I never claimed I was a professional fighter, kung fu master, jiu jitsu sensei(like Segal ) or that I've even won very many fights, I just stated that I've kicked the **** outta people(doesn't make me the winner necessarily) for attacking me due to being prejudiced towards me, and that I was decent at fighting, nothing more.

And to answer your question Zulu, I'm nineteen and I've been a punk more or less my whole life and I always will be. Punk isn't a fashion, its a way of life and an attitude towards it.

And thats all I gotta say. See yas around.

deedee lepoopoo

Superdub2 wrote:

the problem is that some of the poshest parts of the southside are in the inner city while some of the worst parts of the northside are in the inner city so they are the parts we see when we venture close to the liffey!

Totally agree. If you were to go to the Southside from say Trinity College you would pass through nice leafy areas but if you were going Northsidefrom Trinity you go through dodgy areas within the inner City.

I remember a few years ago being in Swamp Critters in Rathmines and these dodgy blokes coming over to and saying 'howya girls, where are yez from?', I thought I was being smart saying 'Jobstown' (to get rid of them) and they were saying 'Get the f*ck! We're from Feathercairn'.

fly_agaric

Superdub2 wrote:

you dont have the option to "chill out" if thats the type of person you are, it is who you are and there is nothing you can do it. to suggest a person , while granted they may be well off, who worries about sustaining their current lifestyle or making more money who is a natural worrier can just "chill out" is ludicrious

Kind of covered that with the personality thing. Your internal state of mind is something you can work on or get help to change - external pressures (having bills to pay and no money to pay them with) are something different.

Anyway, it is not a ridiculous as the bullshít notion that someone stressing over how they can earn enough to keep with the joneses and buy that mansion has it as bad (relatively speaking:rolleyes: ) as someone stressing over having enough money to get by.

Victimhood was never so popular!:v:

Zulu

SxE Punk wrote:

And to answer your question Zulu, I'm nineteen and I've been a punk more or less my whole life and I always will be. ...

Sure. Sure you will. Good luck with that.

fly_agaric wrote:

Your internal state of mind is something you can work on or get help to change - external pressures (having bills to pay and no money to pay them with) are something different.

I couldn't disagree more. I would argue that it's far easier to change external pressures than internal ones. And lets face it, there is a socail support structure in Ireland.

Anyway, it is not a ridiculous as the bullshít notion that someone stressing over how they can earn enough to keep with the joneses and buy that mansion has it as bad (relatively speaking ) as someone stressing over having enough money to get by.

Empathy one of your strong points then? The pressures poeple put themselves under isn't a bullsh1t notion. It's a classless reality. You are only displaying your own snobbery now.

fly_agaric

Zulu wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. I would argue that it's far easier to change external pressures than internal ones.

Ah yes...it's much more difficult to change your attitude somewhat and worry less about money when your circumstances are quite comfortable than it is to change external things like the rate of inflation, your mortgage, your job and how much you get for doing it, interest rates, house prices, rent levels etc.

I blame it on the parents (those bástards!:) ) - they really stuff you up leaving you with all these mental complexes which are so much harder to change than external factors.

Zulu wrote:

And lets face it, there is a socail support structure in Ireland.

After a bit of thought I think I now see how this seemingly unrelated bit of info relates to the discussion.

Those lacking in money don't actually need to worry about it because mother state will provide! Happy days! Now why didn't I think of that!:rolleyes:

Whereas those who are comfortable are worrying about their status constantly and actually have life ever, ever so much worse.

Zulu wrote:

Empathy one of your strong points then? The pressures poeple put themselves under isn't a bullsh1t notion. It's a classless reality.

Where did I say that people don't put themselves under pressure or that such pressures are a bullshít notion in general?

Answer: I didn't!

It was one specific comparison I was objecting to.

Zulu wrote:

You are only displaying your own snobbery now.

How so? Because I don't think someone who is comfortable and stresses over getting enough money to fuel their lifestyle aspirations (bigger and better house and car etc) and keep up with the joneses doesn't have it as bad (relatively or otherwise) as someone who stresses over money because they
are struggling to make ends meet?

Yeah, I'm a real snob alright who doesn't empathise enough with the mental anguish of those who can't afford to trade up to a nicer car and a bigger house. Bad, bad me.:o

This is ridiculous at this point. Flame away!

leprehaungirl

i can see both side to the argument - im from the west - so when i go to the northside im called a poshie and when im on the south-east side im called a skobe/skanger , i just can't win either way!! i think the whole snobbery thing is more with the younger people, im 15 and i experiance it all the time when i go somewhere or meet new people. when i went away to the gaeltacht this year and me and my friends got talking to a group of lads from terenure this is how our first coversation went
me:hi where are you from?
terenure fella:im from terenure you?
me: lucan
terenure fella: oh
me: huh?
terenure fella: holy god im rich your poor i can but my way through life and you cant haha

well i nearly blew my head off at him anyway in the end he was very sorry as we told the story to everyone and everyone turned against him on the first day... although we made friends in end !! that was a pure a example first class snobbery . the fella didnt no any of us before that conversation he didnt no any of our families he just judged us because where were from and thats what i hate. i dont hate all southsiders some of them are really sound i just dont like when people judge people without knowing them

Zulu

fly_agaric wrote:

Ah yes...it's much more difficult to change your attitude somewhat and worry less about money when your circumstances are quite comfortable than it is to change external things like the rate of inflation, your mortgage, your job and how much you get for doing it, interest rates, house prices, rent levels etc.

Nice example. Well done. But I'd prefer to keep it at a personal level. No one is going to change the rate of inflation, but they may decide not to buy a house say, when they can't afford it, or rent. A job? and how much you get for it? - Work harder. Personally, I started on poor pay, worked hard, and got better pay. Interest rates? Don't borrow what you don't have. House prices? Rent, you don't NEED to own your house. Rent levels? Rent where you can afford. (...and there is rent allowance)

I blame it on the parents (those bástards!:) ) - they really stuff you up leaving you with all these mental complexes which are so much harder to change than external factors.

Parents/society, whatever. Ireland has one of the highest rates of people who own where they live. In other countries renting is far more socially acceptable. Why are house prices high? Because people will spend the money to buy them. Why is that?

After a bit of thought I think I now see how this seemingly unrelated bit of info relates to the discussion.

Good, I'm glad you caught up.

Those lacking in money don't actually need to worry about it because mother state will provide! Happy days! Now why didn't I think of that!:rolleyes:

Well you did, but it's not what I'm suggesting. What I was trying to explain was that you won't starve; that the pressures you describe come from people over-stretching themselves; that Ireland isn't a third world country. ...nice use of the rolleyes though.

Whereas those who are comfortable are worrying about their status constantly and actually have life ever, ever so much worse.

See I never said that. I said it was relative. I suggested it was all the same. Do you want a discussion - or just a flame war?

Where did I say that people don't put themselves under pressure or that such pressures are a bullshít notion in general? ...It was one specific comparison I was objecting to.

Good for you, but it was used as an example to prove a point. If you can't grasp the concept, that's fair enough I suppose.

How so? Because I don't think someone who is comfortable and stresses over getting enough money to fuel their lifestyle aspirations (bigger and better house and car etc) and keep up with the joneses doesn't have it as bad (relatively or otherwise) as someone who stresses over money because they
are struggling to make ends meet?

If you can't grasp the concept... Look I don't really want to explain this with finger puppets, and we're straying off the original point, but the point made was that pressures are relative, regardless of class. If you need further explanation feel free to PM me or start another thread.

Yeah, I'm a real snob alright who doesn't empathise enough with the mental anguish of those ...

Sorry my bad you're evidently not a snob - it appears you just did't understand.

This is ridiculous at this point. Flame away!

...well for those who don't get it. Perhaps it's more meaningful now?

Bartronilic

me:hi where are you from?
terenure fella:im from terenure you?
me: lucan
terenure fella: oh
me: huh?
terenure fella: holy god im rich your poor i can but my way through life and you cant haha

Weird I heard a similar comment from a Terenure College head. What is it with some private schools and their "pov" obsession? Who cares if someone is poor blegh.

Having said that, I also think that there is just as much Northside snobbery as south.

It seems not many places in the world have a north south (or east west divide) quite like us.

Mr.Plough

Hi,

im from the northside, from a relatively nice area, and i think snobbery, or whatever you want to call it happens all over dublin.

loads of places on the northside have the snobbery issue, such as people from around the northside referring to malahide/howth as posh, just because they arnt sh!tholes.

The northside southside thing is a load of hyped up bullsh!t spurred on by crap such as east/west feuds. alot of northsiders believe they have to not like the southside for the reason they are rich, when there is just as many wealthy areas in the northside.


the whole north/south thing comes down to the fact they are both opposites.

one is north, one is south. it has nothing to do with money imo.

and that fool who says "just because im good at fighting doesnt mean i like it", and "ive kicked the sh!t out of loads of d4's d15's".

you only sound like a mouthy little muppet who believes hes lived the hard knock life and got past it.

you may be a nice lad but you are sounding like a d!ickhead here.

nothing personal its very easy to be hard on the internet.

i didnt read this post just kept typing so excuse me if it waffles

constitutionus

dublindude wrote:

It's undeserved though. I have never come across people from around this area who think they are better than others, or who think people with Dublin accents are lesser creatures. Yes, they may think they are different, but being different and looking down on someone are two totally different things!

I think the anti-D4 things has a huge element of jealousy in it.

actually man its about discrimination. while i dont doubt you dont look down or think less of people from other areas i doubt you ever had to fake your address on a job application form either.
whist i had enough connections to never have to bother with that crap i do know alot of people who didnt get jobs PURELY because of the areas they came from ( and before you ask YES i do know this for a fact, you'll be amazed what HR people will spill when theryre pissed at christmas do's) and to this day they're are still employers who despite being "equal oppertunity employers" still engege in this.

its sad, but true:(