are you satisfied with UCDSU

Sangre

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Way to completely miss the point there angeloffire. With observation skills like that no wonder you're a SU rep.

pigeonbutler

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Chris, Oops! I mean angeloffire , I think what the poster was referring to was the concept of one campaign team pushing for several candidates for different positions.

For the information of peachypants, that is actually a pretty bad campaign strategy. It dilutes the message and pisses off or confuses voters (as it has done for you). So if someone does that, your response is simple, don't vote for them!!! You have plenty of choice. There are 3 candidates for president, 2 each for Welfare and Education and a whopping 6 for Ents! There's a very broad consensus that Dave Curran has been a brilliant Deputy Pres so no-one is opposing him but in every other race you have choice. And don't forget RON if you hate them all.

Chinafoot

pigeonbutler wrote:

For the information of peachypants, that is actually a pretty bad campaign strategy. It dilutes the message and pisses off or confuses voters (as it has done for you). So if someone does that, your response is simple, don't vote for them!!! You have plenty of choice. There are 3 candidates for president, 2 each for Welfare and Education and a whopping 6 for Ents! There's a very broad consensus that Dave Curran has been a brilliant Deputy Pres so no-one is opposing him but in every other race you have choice. And don't forget RON if you hate them all.

1: it may be a bad strategy but its still one that is carried out.

2: i am fully aware of what my options are and how to vote thanks very much.

anonymous_joe

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

I think he meant you were pissed off.

scop

peachypants wrote:

Oh yea I totally agree with you. I just think that breaking into it is the problem.

Breaking into what, the SU council? You run like they do, I have no idea how you are all so confused or pissed off with the 'hacks' of which there are so few really, grow some balls and run for some positions if youre unhappy.

Chinafoot

scop wrote:

Breaking into what, the SU council? You run like they do, I have no idea how you are all so confused or pissed off with the 'hacks' of which there are so few really, grow some balls and run for some positions if youre unhappy.

scop....are you involved with the SU?

Red Alert

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

i think he's only new. are we getting a witch-hunt going here or something? let's just have an SU declaration thread and leave it at that.

EDIT: just to note from an SU contact, that everybody can go and view the SU council meetings as they take place.

Chinafoot

Red Alert wrote:

i think he's only new. are we getting a witch-hunt going here or something? let's just have an SU declaration thread and leave it at that.

The reason I have been reluctant to post a separate thread is because I dont want it to be a massive issue. Having said that, in threads such as this I would prefer it if people did state it. You saw what happened last time Peadar and I'm sure nobody wants it to happen again.

There is no witch hunt. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with members of the SU council posting here.

If we are going to debate the state of the union then I think its only fair for those involved in it to let people know before their staunch defence.

Red Alert

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

but it does appear to be a massive issue. i think it's important we know who is and isn't too. that's why a sticky reference thread would be a good idea. for example from that I could see that peachypants and Red Alert are not in the SU, whereas Panda100 is. that's the idea, because continuously asking who is and isn't makes threads very hard to read.

Chinafoot

Red Alert wrote:

but it does appear to be a massive issue. i think it's important we know who is and isn't too. that's why a sticky reference thread would be a good idea. for example from that I could see that peachypants and Red Alert are not in the SU, whereas Panda100 is. that's the idea, because continuously asking who is and isn't makes threads very hard to read.

ok so

Red Alert

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

She's on the SU council.

pigeonbutler

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Red Alert wrote:

but it does appear to be a massive issue. i think it's important we know who is and isn't too. that's why a sticky reference thread would be a good idea. for example from that I could see that peachypants and Red Alert are not in the SU, whereas Panda100 is. that's the idea, because continuously asking who is and isn't makes threads very hard to read.

Ah yet, again EVERYONE in UCD is in the SU!!!

And to the best of my knowledge Panda100 is not elected to any role. She planned on running for election for Welfare but didn't.

Chinafoot

pigeonbutler wrote:

Ah yet, again EVERYONE in UCD is in the SU!!!

We mean the council itself.

Chinafoot

scop wrote:

Breaking into what, the SU council? You run like they do, I have no idea how you are all so confused or pissed off with the 'hacks' of which there are so few really, grow some balls and run for some positions if youre unhappy.

I agree that more people should run but from my experience, those who run having had no previous affiliation with the Union never get very far.

I think that panda100 should have run but if I'm honest I dont think she would have been elected...and the reason for that would have absolutely nothing to do with her ability to do the job. Thats just my opinion.

GusherING

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

I don't think panda is on the council either.

Chinafoot

GusherING wrote:

I don't think panda is on the council either.

aye, I dont think she is.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Im no relation to the UCDSU

And also while I take the point about it being a bit silly to ask to be allowed leave the SU on grounds that it does provide a lot of services anonymously to the student body, is it too much to ask that they commit themselves solely to the student body?

Providing services to the students is great, but protesting over Iraq and government policy (excluding grants which directly affect us) is not doing a tap for those who keep the SU in the position to which they have become acustomed.

grow some balls and run for some positions if youre unhappy.

All of us have the right to complain about the SU as much as we want, whether we run for election or whether we abstain because we don't think any of them are worth endorsing.
Students have lots of justified reasons for not running ie studying our exams, busy doing rotations, getting drunk - whatever.

For those who do run that's great, fair play to them, but it doesn't make the rest of us less justified in our opinions. We ALL pay for the SU

scop

peachypants wrote:

scop....are you involved with the SU?

Nope but I am friends with some people who are but no I dont hold a position, then again if I wanted to change anythign I would.

scop

peachypants wrote:

I agree that more people should run but from my experience, those who run having had no previous affiliation with the Union never get very far.

I'm not sure what you mean, I've seen plenty of people not involved with anything in UCD elected, the majority in fact are non-political.

What happens is the political voices or the hacks tend to dominate proceedings and less is heard/seen of the others, like you lot probably pissed off.

Yet I dotn see how this cant be challenged, there is nothing spectacular about political types or hacks in UCD.

pigeonbutler

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

Im no relation to the UCDSU

And also while I take the point about it being a bit silly to ask to be allowed leave the SU on grounds that it does provide a lot of services anonymously to the student body, is it too much to ask that they commit themselves solely to the student body?

Providing services to the students is great, but protesting over Iraq and government policy (excluding grants which directly affect us) is not doing a tap for those who keep the SU in the position to which they have become acustomed.



All of us have the right to complain about the SU as much as we want, whether we run for election or whether we abstain because we don't think any of them are worth endorsing.
Students have lots of justified reasons for not running ie studying our exams, busy doing rotations, getting drunk - whatever.

For those who do run that's great, fair play to them, but it doesn't make the rest of us less justified in our opinions. We ALL pay for the SU

Of course you have a right to complain. Just as I have a right to tell you that you're a moaner, that sees the problem, sees the solution but won't be the one to do anything about it. If you want a Union that stays away from non-student Politics then vote for people like that, or run yourself!

In each of the Sabbat races vote for who will keep the Union out of irrelevant stuff!! Or alternatively don't vote and let things stay the same.:mad: In each race they're are candidates that want the Union to campaign on silly things like the Rossport 5, Trade Union disputes, Deportations and the like.

For president, Orla Ni Threasaigh is the one most inclined to stick to Student issues.
For Deputy you have only one candidate. But Dave is a good guy and respects the will of the majority.
For Education Brian Doyle has no interest in pursusing outside issues.
For Welfare I think they're both pretty sensible.
And Ents you just want someone who'll get us all pissed.

My apologies if I've misrepresented any candidates but I know them all quite well and that's how I see them. So take this into account if you want to see the Union change.

Or alternatively don't vote and let things stay the same.:mad:

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

I was a med rep back in 2nd year but med reps are differnt because we are only affiliated with med soc and not the su.The reason for this being cos med soc is active with medical students and the terrace where the union is not.So usually med reps for the su are just in name only except for colm Bryrne,1 med student who has been med rep for the last 3years.
I have been active in the union though since 1st year.just helping out now and again and then have been quite involved with world aid soc and med soc.Anywho,I do think its all very fine for people to say 'if you dont like the union.get invollved' but I really think this is a lot easier said than done.
Looking at the list of nomminess this year.We have dan who was welfare officer,orla the Irish language officer and enda who was employment and accom officer last year as well as running for deputy last year.Then we have Dave,who is this years deputy.Then we have running for welfare,the Irish languages boyfriend,barry and the womens officer Michelle. Everyone knows everyone,and unless your an extremely extrovert person,the union is a pretty intimidating place.While,I know a lot of people within the union,I wouldnt class them as best mates and know them to work alongside professionally.So I really do think it is extremely difficult to get involved.

Also the class rep system need a complete overhaul.In the first month of college,the new class reps get elected.I dont no about anyone else but when I first came to college I was mega shy and running for a class rep wouldnt have even entered my head.So generally it is extremely confident and outspoken people that run in firts year for class rep postitions.Then i find that because your not voted in as class rep there is no opportunity to get involved.Then a sorta visious circle starts because it usually the same people who will get voted in year after year as class rep and the rest of the students will loose intrest in the union.
Its quite intresting if you look at a list of the class reps from this year.Theres a lot of similar surnames.dan haydens brother is a class rep along with shaun smyths sister and theres a Horgan jones in there too.So I know me and my friends who have all been in college since 2001 find union corrider an extremely intimidating place,well from my perspective I dont have a boyfriend,brother,sister and only have proffesional aquantinces who Ive worked beside on campaigns.
I think this is a really intresting debate to open up,maybe I am in a minority and people find it quite easy to get actively involved?
I agree also that Irish officer and womens officer should be scrapped.Its a title that looks great on your cv but really does nothing for the student body.All they do is organise a week,with a few night time events and thats about it.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

pigeonbutler wrote:

I have a right to tell you that you're a moaner, that sees the problem, sees the solution but won't be the one to do anything about it. If you want a Union that stays away from non-student Politics then vote for people like that, or run yourself!

UCD isnt far off the size of many real constituencies in local politics - would you suggest that everyone who complains about their local representitives should run for office themselves?! fair enough if you've got a lot of time on your hands but what about the Doctors, nurses, engineers, plumbers, farmers etc. that are too busy for this? Dont they have the right to complain?

And those very people who are too busy to run as an elected representitive in local politics in the 'real world'. If they have a choice between two woeful candidates, do they have to endorse one of them just for the heck of it so that they have "permission" to complain about how their taxes are spent?

I cant speak for others here, but I suspect many people are in the same situation. We dont all have the time for this kind of thing.

Stabshauptmann

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While not wishing to get flamed for this, is it really fair for UCDSU reps to vote in a poll saying that they ARE satisfied with UCDSU?

I mean if you were to ask the Irish public for their view on politicians, it wouldn't be very fair to go to a Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis for your answers.

I think it 's disappointing that Union reps voted in this poll as they are hardly unbiased.

Just my opinion.

But if the MRBI did a random poll and happened to ring a SF party member, should he be allowed to say no Im not satisfied with FF.

That ppl are involved with the unions shows their degree of support.

Whay would be out of order would be council members regging accounts just to vote, or visa versa

Stabshauptmann

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

anonymous_joe wrote:

Well if Plato was so smart, how come he's dead?

rofl, made my year,(though everything is funny when hungover/tired)

pigeonbutler

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

UCD isnt far off the size of many real constituencies in local politics - would you suggest that everyone who complains about their local representitives should run for office themselves?! fair enough if you've got a lot of time on your hands but what about the Doctors, nurses, engineers, plumbers, farmers etc. that are too busy for this? Dont they have the right to complain?

And those very people who are too busy to run as an elected representitive in local politics in the 'real world'. If they have a choice between two woeful candidates, do they have to endorse one of them just for the heck of it so that they have "permission" to complain about how their taxes are spent?

I cant speak for others here, but I suspect many people are in the same situation. We dont all have the time for this kind of thing.

You missed my point completely. You have a right to complain!!!! But so do I have a right to complain about you. And you don't have to endorse a bad candidate in SU sabbatical elections. You can vote for Reopen Nominations (RON) which is like "None of the above".

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

pigeonbutler wrote:

You missed my point completely. You have a right to complain!!!! But so do I have a right to complain about you.

I dont think im the one missing the point, I was trying to find out what your grounds for complaining about the non candidates like me are? Damn students busy trying to do well in their degrees and getting on well with their lecturers maybe? Damn students going for a pint with their friends at lunchtime instead of lauching themselves at the Taoiseach like a herd of idiots?

Theres also a time and a place for running and protesting. students have to get on with other aspects of college life too. Sorry to go off on a tangent here now but that editorial in the Observer was really really irritating: bemoaning those who didnt go on the anti modularisation rally as being apathetic. Apathetic?! I honestly WANT to be modularised, and even if I didnt, who says that just because I didnt march, for whatever reason, that I must be apathetic?

Bah.

Mr.Nice Guy

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

But if the MRBI did a random poll and happened to ring a SF party member, should he be allowed to say no Im not satisfied with FF.

That would be a very close-ended question though and wouldn't really be fair in my view.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

That ppl are involved with the unions shows their degree of support.

Should these people have the right to answer a poll like this one though which presumably wants a non-Union council member view?

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Whay would be out of order would be council members regging accounts just to vote, or visa versa

Indeed. Watch out for the newbies.

pigeonbutler

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

I dont think im the one missing the point, I was trying to find out what your grounds for complaining about the non candidates like me are? Damn students busy trying to do well in their degrees and getting on well with their lecturers maybe? Damn students going for a pint with their friends at lunchtime instead of lauching themselves at the Taoiseach like a herd of idiots?

Theres also a time and a place for running and protesting. students have to get on with other aspects of college life too. Sorry to go off on a tangent here now but that editorial in the Observer was really really irritating: bemoaning those who didnt go on the anti modularisation rally as being apathetic. Apathetic?! I honestly WANT to be modularised, and even if I didnt, who says that just because I didnt march, for whatever reason, that I must be apathetic?

Bah.

You're obviously not reading any of my posts here. I don't agree with protesting willy-nilly, especially charging the Taoiseachs car. And the rally was not anti-modularisation. I am modularised already and love it. It was against the lack of information being given to students by the college. Oh and the University Observer is Editorally independent. The Union can't influence its writings.

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

Sorry to go off on a tangent here now but that editorial in the Observer was really really irritating: bemoaning those who didnt go on the anti modularisation rally as being apathetic. Apathetic?! I honestly WANT to be modularised, and even if I didnt, who says that just because I didnt march, for whatever reason, that I must be apathetic?

I agree with you completly on that issue. I'm involved in a few sports clubs and any time we've organised a charity or community event (we've held 3 this year) we've had no shortage of volunteers. Students are not apathetic. They're generally quite happy to get involved in something usefull. The problem with the SU is that most people, myself included, don't see anything usefull about throwing yourself at Bertie's car or attending a pointless row at SU Council.

Declaration: I'm involved with 2 sports clubs, 1 society and was an SU class rep about 3 years ago.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

pigeonbutler wrote:

Oh and the University Observer is Editorally independent. The Union can't influence its writings.

Who said anything about the Union? I was just speaking about the wider opinion that a very small band of fulltime protesters here in UCD, not necessarily the SU may hold on those who may seem apathetic. When, I think most people are not quite apathetic but quite happy with their time here in UCD at the moment. Apart from a small number of issues like the maintenance grants (not UCDs fault), when I look around college there's not much I would change. However if the SU had a volume button I know which way Id be pushing it.

Its 2006, not 1966.