are you satisfied with UCDSU

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Originally posted by larryone: The last time I went to the SU to ask them to help me and to stick up for my rights the response I recieved was almost insulting. It was in relation to security for bicycles on campus. Nothing happened about it.

But they are so busy. Theres a war going on in Iraq that they have to deal with, they're busy deciding the future of Shannon Airport, oh and they're trying to save the Rossport Five while getting a major international company to improve labour conditions for its workers.

Honestly Larryone, isnt there a student union for dealing with your paltry bicycle? That is sooo beneath the politicians in the corridoor.

arbeitsscheuer

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

"Students 1
Suits 0"

There, you ungrateful moaners. Your Union just won a significant battle on your behalf, though you wouldn't know it the way you lot carry on, FFS.

Congrats to everyone who protested about the lack of info and consultation surrounding modularisation.

Victoire

Pythia

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

SebtheBum wrote:

"Students 1
Suits 0"

There, you ungrateful moaners. Your Union just won a significant battle on your behalf, though you wouldn't know it the way you lot carry on, FFS.

Congrats to everyone who protested about the lack of info and consultation surrounding modularisation.

Victoire

What?

larryone

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

does Pythia's question imply lack of info and consultation surrounding the protest?

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

But they are so busy. Theres a war going on in Iraq that they have to deal with, they're busy deciding the future of Shannon Airport, oh and they're trying to save the Rossport Five while getting a major international company to improve labour conditions for its workers.

Honestly Larryone, isnt there a student union for dealing with your paltry bicycle? That is sooo beneath the politicians in the corridoor.

Could you please specify exactly what the Union has done on a) The war in Iraq, b) Shannon Airport or c) The Rossport 5 this year? Could you quantify how much time has been "wasted" on these issues? I'd be surprised if you could.

On the Irish Ferries issue, we went on two marches in solidarity with the workers, on a topic that really relates to all workers in Ireland (and you may be interested to learn that when students graduate, they will make up a significant number of these "workers". This took a grand total of about two hours.

Hysterical clamouring about waste of time on non-student issues has really got to stop.

Stabshauptmann

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

Every sabbat officer has to submit detailed time sheets of what they are doing and when. Anyone can ask to see these.

Jonny Arson

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

On the Irish Ferries issue, we went on two marches in solidarity with the workers, on a topic that really relates to all workers in Ireland (and you may be interested to learn that when students graduate, they will make up a significant number of these "workers". This took a grand total of about two hours.

Hysterical clamouring about waste of time on non-student issues has really got to stop.

Is it not possible to go to the Irish Ferries protest in your own personal time as an individual instead of using the UCDSU name as a platform to go to this protest? Go to the protest as an individual, not as a student.

Also didn't the UCDSU hire a bus to bring the protesters into town to the protest out of the UCDSU budget? If so, surely that's a waste of UCDSU funds (our funds) when the protesters should be paying for their own transportation costs. Little things like that piss people off.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Could you please specify exactly what the Union has done on a) The war in Iraq, b) Shannon Airport or c) The Rossport 5 this year? Could you quantify how much time has been "wasted" on these issues? I'd be surprised if you could.

This year? we've only been back a month give yourselves a chance! Those are all random things that the union has been active on in recent times, you can be sure it wont be long before they (you) start up again on such issues beyond a university student's specific interests in 2006.

you may be interested to learn that when students graduate, they will make up a significant number of these "workers"

Everybody is a worker, everybody in ireland except the layabouts and the infirm, while the contribution of all individuals and workers' unions in the Irish Ferries dispute was to be valued, the contribution of the UCDSU as a student's union was pointless, what did it achieve for the people who elceted the Union Officers? It wasted time, energy and money that could all be spent in ways more beneficial to students. If SU members want to be politicians and work for the greater good, etc, maybe they should consider getting elected as politicians.

arryone's bike issue may is not as important as the Shell to sea campaign but warrants an officer's attention in a UCDSU capacity more so than the Rossport 5 issue

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

This year? we've only been back a month give yourselves a chance!

You and I know that I meant this academic year.

InFront wrote:

Those are all random things that the union has been active on in recent times .

Right. So when I start criticising Young Fianna Fáilers now for things that Séan Lemass did in the 60s, nobody will accuse me of being illogical?

I also don't think that calling issues which have been decided upon by a democratic vote of class reps from each faculty in this university "random" is very accurate, but that is of course a fight for another day.

InFront wrote:

you can be sure it wont be long before they (you) start up again on such issues beyond a university student's specific interests in 2006.

Oh, I can be SURE, can I? Inflammatory language like that doesn't convince me or anyone else. Fact of the matter is, it is more than halfway through the academic year, and there has been absolutely no official UCDSU action which cost any time, effort, or money on Shannon, the war, or the Rossport Five. Fact. Your statements are incorrect. These rumours are complete myths and should be exposed as such. That of course, is not to say that I don't think that we wouldnt be entitled to campaign on these issues if the membership so chooses, as it has in the past.

InFront wrote:

everybody is a worker, everybody in ireland except the layabouts and the infirm, while the contribution of all individuals and workers' unions in the Irish Ferries dispute was to be valued, the contribution of the UCDSU as a student's union was pointless, what did it achieve for the people who elceted the Union Officers? It wasted time, energy and money that could all be spent in ways more beneficial to students. If SU members want to be politicians and work for the greater good, etc, maybe they should consider getting elected as politicians..

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the Irish Ferries demonstrations were not solely attended by the ferry workers unions. It was attended in solidarity by countless other unions who represent workers. UCDSU represents student workers. We have a full-time Accommodation and Employment officer. And even if you STILL disagree with our presence there, can I stress again that it took two hours out of about two thousand that I work during the year (extremely rough calculations but it's a hell big number) and hysterical screaming about it considering ALL the other time we spend on education, welfare and student services really is ridiculous.

InFront wrote:

arryone's bike issue may is not as important as the Shell to sea campaign but warrants an officer's attention in a UCDSU capacity more so than the Rossport 5 issue

What officer has spent any paid office time on the Rossport 5 issue? I would sincerely love to know. Again, baseless accusations are hardly worthy of a response.

If larryone would like to propose a motion to council that any named officer takes any action he wants on the bike issue, then I will gladly both draft it for him and pass my speaking rights to him so he can propose it at council. No problem at all.

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Is it not possible to go to the Irish Ferries protest in your own personal time as an individual instead of using the UCDSU name as a platform to go to this protest? Go to the protest as an individual, not as a student.

We were mandated to support the demonstration by Council, which has a lot more people on it than just me.

As an elected officer I really do believe in the importance of democratic mandates and carrying them out when they apply to you.

larryone

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

If larryone would like to propose a motion to council that any named officer takes any action he wants on the bike issue, then I will gladly both draft it for him and pass my speaking rights to him so he can propose it at council. No problem at all.

I dont have time to go to any council meetings. And considering what I've heard about council meetings from so many of my firends who have been reps or union officers or sabats or any other such thing - it's something I really dont want to go to.

As far as I'm concerned, I gave as much information about my proposal as is necessary to the representative I elected and paid, and nothing happened. I dont have the time to push it, but if anyone here wants to try any carry it on, then please feel free. It's not my issue, its one that thousands of ucd students have experienced.

I first raised the issue long before I had three months left in UCD. I now have only three months left in UCD, and it would take much longer than that for any action to actually be taken, so it's no longer even worth my while.

Stabshauptmann

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

larryone wrote:

I dont have time to go to any council meetings. And considering what I've heard about council meetings from so many of my firends who have been reps or union officers or sabats or any other such thing - it's something I really dont want to go to.

As far as I'm concerned, I gave as much information about my proposal as is necessary to the representative I elected and paid, and nothing happened. I dont have the time to push it, but if anyone here wants to try any carry it on, then please feel free. It's not my issue, its one that thousands of ucd students have experienced.

I first raised the issue long before I had three months left in UCD. I now have only three months left in UCD, and it would take much longer than that for any action to actually be taken, so it's no longer even worth my while.

Thats a cop out

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

larryone wrote:

I dont have time to go to any council meetings. And considering what I've heard about council meetings from so many of my firends who have been reps or union officers or sabats or any other such thing - it's something I really dont want to go to.

As far as I'm concerned, I gave as much information about my proposal as is necessary to the representative I elected and paid, and nothing happened. I dont have the time to push it, but if anyone here wants to try any carry it on, then please feel free. It's not my issue, its one that thousands of ucd students have experienced.

I first raised the issue long before I had three months left in UCD. I now have only three months left in UCD, and it would take much longer than that for any action to actually be taken, so it's no longer even worth my while.

Ask your rep to propose it on your behalf? I'm not trying to say that sometimes officers are bad and don't act on things students say, but that's down to an individual officer's shortcomings and not the union itself...the way we usually get around these things is by mandating people; breaking mandate is an impeachable offence so people have no choice then but to act.

Chinafoot

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Thats a cop out

How is that a cop out? Larry is in the final stages of his degree and clearly needs to spend time on assignments/exams etc. As he has pointed out, the reps are supposed to be the representatives of the average student and a link to the SU council (at least that was always my understanding). Larry went to his rep and gave him all the info he thought necessary about what is a very immediate student issue. Why should he have to chase them up to get something done about it?

One thing that really bugs me with all these "if you're so píssed off then get involved an do somehting about it" responses.....if thats the case then why do we have these people? What exactly are they doing? I have never seen a class rep over my three years here. I have never been asked my opinion on anythng that may have been brought to council and voted on. Fair enough it can be argued that this shouldnt be a reflection on the Union itself, but when its the only real everyday interaction that we are *supposed* to have, how can we think otherwise?

larryone

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

It was actually the president at the time I went to. I had no Idea who my rep was.
I shouldnt have to know about the internal workings of the union in order to have such an issue addressed. I had pretty much shrugged my shoulders on the issue and considered that the president probably has much more to do with his time than to listen to me, so I got a new set of handlebars and put up with the situ. I'd almost forgotten about it until I posted on this thread...

Chinafoot

larryone wrote:

had no Idea who my rep was.

This is what I honestly think is one of the biggest problems with the Union. If the officers want the myths dispelled then a bit of interaction would go a long way. If the reps aren't doing their jobs then put new reps in place.

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

peachypants wrote:

This is what I honestly think is one of the biggest problems with the Union. If the officers want the myths dispelled then a bit of interaction would go a long way. If the reps aren't doing their jobs then put new reps in place.

But is this system of having reps ask their classmates opinions on silly votes really practacle? The reps would end up like billy-no-mates if they were to address their lectures every week to ask for a show of hands to see wheather or not their classmates are in favour of some pointless motion.

Chinafoot

John_C wrote:

But is this system of having reps ask their classmates opinions on silly votes really practacle? The reps would end up like billy-no-mates if they were to address their lectures every week to ask for a show of hands to see wheather or not their classmates are in favour of some pointless motion.

What about important motions? And who is to say what motion is pointless if its relevant to the students that attend this college?

If they are going to claim to be doing what the students want then surely they should ask the students exactly what that is.

Fair enough, it may not be practical to address every lecture but to be honest, there seem to be so many students that don't have a clue who their rep even is and to me, that is something that needs to be addressed.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

I agree with everything peachy and larry are saying here-I wish vainglory would take it on board and accept this fair critism instead of trying to defend the union.WE are the students and we are trying to tell you what we think is wrong.A bit of advice,if you will!so while it is admirable that you defend the union so much you should as education officer take our points on board.

I agree that this constant 'get involved' or 'ask your class rep' is irritating.I havent a clue who my union class rep is?3rd year med??As far as I remember not one member of the union bothered to check up or follow up the fact that we had no representative.

Vainglory,you have to accept the fair critism about extra-curricular activities of union officers,such as the irish ferries protest.I walked under the labouryouth banner and not the ucdsu one a couple of metres infront,because I just didnt think it right for the su to put their wieight behind this issue.This can be very alienating for people from different political spectrums.Anyone who logs onto the union website will find it a site completly out of touch with the core student body.I for one love reading indymedia in my spare time but the union website is a poor copy of this.It should be a nice,bright,funny,informative site for UCD matters.Instead week after week I am confronted of left protests,marches and meetings on the newwire.It is over run by hacks or extreme left males and this is not the sort of official website that the union should be boasting.You shouldnt be allowing such political images on it such as dermot holding up a placard saying 'rascist' in front of that women.To be honest I have no idea who she is but this sort of propoganda and insulting images should not be be allowed on a website that should be dedicated to ALL students of UCD.not just socialist males.

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

peachypants wrote:

What about important motions? And who is to say what motion is pointless if its relevant to the students that attend this college?

That only requires a tad of common sence. When I was a rep there wasn't a single motion all year I tought would be worth asking my class about. Had one come up I would have had no problem raising it with my class but had I stood up and asked wheather or not everyone tought I should vote in favour or against the war in Afghanistan I would have been booed out the door.

Most people in my class knew who the reps were and between myself, the other rep and the eng-soc reps we did the various usefull jobs reps do but gathering my class' opinion on political topics is not one of them.

Chinafoot

John_C wrote:

That only requires a tad of common sence. When I was a rep there wasn't a single motion all year I tought would be worth asking my class about. Had one come up I would have had no problem raising it with my class but had I stood up and asked wheather or not everyone tought I should vote in favour or against the war in Afghanistan I would have been booed out the door.

And??

If you put yourself forward as class rep then you are expected to carry out the duties required. If reps are afraid to get up in front of their peers in case they become a "billy-no-mates" then they shouldn't be reps.

Regardless of what the motion was, the students should have been given a chance to have their say.

Fact is we arent.

Stabshauptmann

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

panda100 wrote:

I agree with everything peachy and larry are saying here-I wish vainglory would take it on board and accept this fair critism instead of trying to defend the union.

Read vainglory's defence which she is entitled to make. Some of the critisim is based on misinformation. It should be dispelled and those who spout it should retract it.
If vainglory is telling the truth, and I believe she is in a position to know, then no time or money has been wasted this academic year on "external" issues such as the rossport 5, the war in Iraq or Irish Ferries. If this is right then one of the biggest critisims of the union on this board is erroreous.

WE are the students and we are trying to tell you what we think is wrong.A bit of advice,if you will!so while it is admirable that you defend the union so much you should as education officer take our points on board.

Well, actually, and I am curious, how representitive are we? I know we haev the roll coll thread but just for handyness Im going to start a poll and do a mini cencus.

I agree that this constant 'get involved' or 'ask your class rep' is irritating.I havent a clue who my union class rep is?3rd year med??As far as I remember not one member of the union bothered to check up or follow up the fact that we had no representative.

peachy wrote:

How is that a cop out? Larry is in the final stages of his degree and clearly needs to spend time on assignments/exams etc

I know who my rep is. *Waves to pigeonbuttler*
larry went to the president, he should have gone to his class rep
Larry didnt avail of the help the SU offered because it wasnt good enough by his standards.
larry has made no effort to contact his class rep.
"[Vainglory] will gladly both draft it for him and pass [her] speaking rights to him so he can propose it at council. No problem at all."
Thats vainglory offering to do most of the work.
Larry doesnt have one hour of his week to spare on this issue?
Thats how I came to the conclusion that its a cop out.

Chinafoot

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I know who my rep is. *Waves to pigeonbuttler*

Good for you. Ask around the other departments....plenty don't know who their rep is.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

larry went to the president, he should have gone to his class rep

larryone wrote:

had no Idea who my rep was.

Larry brought it to the attention of the Union. He gave them the information. Its an important student issue...there are plenty of bikes on campus. Why should he have to take time out to force the issue if he doesnt have the time and we have people paid to do this type of thing?

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Larry doesnt have one hour of his week to spare on this issue?

Well if he says he doesnt then he doesn't. He gave the union the info (regardless of who he told, he still told a council member) and surely they could take it from there.

And yes, fair play to Vainglory for offering to help. Larryone is flat out with coursework so why cant the union do something about it regardless? Are they not the ones who deal with this sort of thing? Surely security on campus is a very important area and im sure larryone isnt the only one who has had his bike stolen or damaged.

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

peachypants wrote:

If reps are afraid to get up in front of their peers in case they become a "billy-no-mates" then they shouldn't be reps.

That's exactly the problem with the system. The bulk of students have no interest in getting involved with these political debates and the bulk of students don't get involved in them. This is the system which leaves the union being run by a very small amount of students who have an interest in getting involved in politics.

In my year as a rep I was often aproached by my classmates and our lecturers to help them with various things. I was never approached by anyone asking me to take a stand on a political issue. I know most of my class quite well and I don't know of anyone who wanted to even be consulted on wheather the students union should support the war in Afghanistan or not. I'm not afraid to speak in front of my class, I have often done so. I really don't think that any of my classmates want to be asked about something just because one person with a political agenda put it too the meeting.

To take this argument to it's illogical conclusion, if I go along to the meeting next week and propose that this house hopes that Dublin wins the Sam can I expect to have class reps all over the college asking their class if they follow Dublin? If a majority does, will the union be mandated to attend games in Croker?

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

By this thread we are offering suggestions kaptain red eye.If you are disstisfied with a service that you pay for then you are entitled to express your grievances.All im saying is if I was in vainglorys position,I would take these on board.I know she is enitiled to defend herslf,but from the poll results at the top of the page you'll see that over 50% of the students here are not satisfied with the union.The union should sit up and listen to this,instead of constantly trying to defend their job-it reminds me of mary Harney and the health service!
Its obvious from this thread that the class rep system is not really effective enough and so we are encouraging debate about this.Do we not have a right to express our grievances about the union?I dont have a class rep so really who do I go to?I go to the president,who as Larry expiernced and as I have experienced in the past is just reffered back to class reps.That is why I like the sound of the new constitutinal referendum cos it allows more spaces for more class reps within each class.
Its people like kaptain red eye,with petty arguments that put me totally off working in that sort of union next year.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

And i mean come on in all fairness,if I was a class rep I would be a bit pissed off giving up my wedensday evening to attend a council meeting and listen to this sh*t

This motion is on notice for Council, Feb 15th.
Council notes with dismay the recent dismissal of Joanne Delaney, a worker in the Dunnes Stores supermarket in the Ashleaf Shopping Centre, Dublin 12, on the basis of her activity within the workplace on behalf of the MANDATE trade union.

Council further notes that Joanne was dismissed on the pretence that wearing a trade union pin was against uniform policy, despite such detail not being part of the policy.

Council acknowledges that many members of UCD Students' Union are also employees of this particular company. Council reaffirms the right of all members of UCD Students' Union to join and be active within a trade union without fear of intimidation.

Council calls for the immediate reinstatement of Joanne Delaney and recognises the right to join and be active in a trade union as part of the right to freedom of peaceful association as outlined in Article 4.4 of the UCDSU Constitution.

In the context of low levels of trade union membership and the flagrant disregard for workers' rights at many of the companies who employ UCD students, Council mandates the President to instruct the Accommodation and Employment Officer to make contact with Joanne Delaney with a view to hosting a meeting on young workers' rights over the next month, to be addressed by Joanne.

Proposed by Jane Horgan-Jones, Education Vice-President
Seconded by Niall Dolan, 2nd Social Science

anonymous_joe

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

By this thread we are offering suggestions kaptain red eye.If you are disstisfied with a service that you pay for then you are entitled to express your grievances.All im saying is if I was in vainglorys position,I would take these on board.I know she is enitiled to defend herslf,but from the poll results at the top of the page you'll see that over 50% of the students here are not satisfied with the union.The union should sit up and listen to this,instead of constantly trying to defend their job-it reminds me of mary Harney and the health service!
Its obvious from this thread that the class rep system is not really effective enough and so we are encouraging debate about this.Do we not have a right to express our grievances about the union?I dont have a class rep so really who do I go to?I go to the president,who as Larry expiernced and as I have experienced in the past is just reffered back to class reps.That is why I like the sound of the new constitutinal referendum cos it allows more spaces for more class reps within each class.
Its people like kaptain red eye,with petty arguments that put me totally off working in that sort of union next year.

Generally by withdrawing your custom. Oh wait...

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

And after disccusuing that hugely relevant topic at council then we go onto discuss this......


Below is the text of an emergency motion that was submitted to the Chair of
Council today. Jailing happened on Friday after deadline for motions and this issue is very much current and ongoing.
UCDSU Council Motion on Collen Construction

Council notes that Collen Construction are the contractors for the new Roebuck Student Residences on the Belfield campus.

Council condemns the jailing of the three bricklayers, Billy McClurg, Andrew Clarke, and Keith Kelly who were protesting in their local community (Ballybrack) against Collen’s use of sub-contractors to reduce wages and conditions and their non-employment of trade union members.

Council affirms its support for trade union rights, payment of agreed rates of pay to workers, and quality buildings on-campus.

Council supports protests calling for the release of these workers.

Council mandates the President and the Education Vice-President to
· investigate by the next Council meeting if Collen are using sub-contractors on their Belfield site.
· investigate by the next Council meeting the wage levels being paid by Collen and/or any sub-contractors on their Belfield site.
· insist on trade union rights and oppose sub-contracting on any UCD construction projects at the Governing Authority Buildings Committee.

Proposed by
Oisín Kelly, member for Postgraduate Arts & Celtic Studies and Human Sciences

Seconded by
David Murphy, member for 3rd Year Arts, Group B

anonymous_joe

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

I wouldn't be opposed to such a move by the SU in all honesty.

Chinafoot

John_C wrote:

To take this argument to it's illogical conclusion, if I go along to the meeting next week and propose that this house hopes that Dublin wins the Sam can I expect to have class reps all over the college asking their class if they follow Dublin? If a majority does, will the union be mandated to attend games in Croker?

:rolleyes: Ah here....


Look, the point I am making is that the class rep system doesnt appear to be working and should be rectified. If the council are going to act on a student issue then surely the students that they represent should be consulted in some form or other.

Note the use of 'student issues' there John_C. I would not expect someone on teh council to propose that "this house hopes that Dublin wins the Sam" because that is irrelevant to student issues. However, on issues such as grants and modularisation etc the students need to have some interaction with their reps as that is their job.