are you satisfied with UCDSU

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

anonymous_joe wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to such a move by the SU in all honesty.

But these workers arent the unions problem!the union shouldnt be spending precious time in council meetings to discuss this sort of nonsense.Tell me if I was a class rep how would this be relevant to my class?I would feel embarrsed going back to my class and telling them that this is how I am representing them.
.Imagine if I went back to my class and said-'look lads,I know all your bikes are nicked regularly outside the terrace,that there isnt enough medical textbooks in the library to go around and some of you have to wait 6 weeks to make an appointment with the health services psychologist,and some of you living on campus are scared witless when you walk home at night.But its ok cos at the union coucil meeting last night we discussed how the accom+employment officer is going to get intouch with this women who got sacked from dunnes ,and its okay cos then we discussed how we are going to try and stop building the fourth desperatly needed on campus accomodation cos these three other blokes we dont know got sacked'

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

If you are disstisfied with a service that you pay for then you are entitled to express your grievances.All im saying is if I was in vainglorys position,I would take these on board.

Riiiiiiiight.

So, how exactly do I "take on board" inaccurate and unfounded allegations that I spend time and effort and waste money on the war, Shannon, or the Rossport 5 etc?

Would you like me to say something like "I take on board your false allegations, and I promise that I will continue to not do these things that you say I do."



?????

Mr.Nice Guy

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

And after disccusuing that hugely relevant topic at council then we go onto discuss this......


Below is the text of an emergency motion that was submitted to the Chair of
Council today. Jailing happened on Friday after deadline for motions and this issue is very much current and ongoing.
UCDSU Council Motion on Collen Construction

Council notes that Collen Construction are the contractors for the new Roebuck Student Residences on the Belfield campus.

Council condemns the jailing of the three bricklayers, Billy McClurg, Andrew Clarke, and Keith Kelly who were protesting in their local community (Ballybrack) against Collen’s use of sub-contractors to reduce wages and conditions and their non-employment of trade union members.

Council affirms its support for trade union rights, payment of agreed rates of pay to workers, and quality buildings on-campus.

Council supports protests calling for the release of these workers.

Council mandates the President and the Education Vice-President to
· investigate by the next Council meeting if Collen are using sub-contractors on their Belfield site.
· investigate by the next Council meeting the wage levels being paid by Collen and/or any sub-contractors on their Belfield site.
· insist on trade union rights and oppose sub-contracting on any UCD construction projects at the Governing Authority Buildings Committee.

Proposed by
Oisín Kelly, member for Postgraduate Arts & Celtic Studies and Human Sciences

Seconded by
David Murphy, member for 3rd Year Arts, Group B

For f*ck's sake.

UCDSU should spend more time trying to be a student union and less time mimicking SIPTU. :rolleyes:

larryone

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Thanks Joe - couldnt have said it better myself =0)
*larryone gets back to work on his final year project


...I meant on the withdrawing custom thingy...

Jonny Arson

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

My boss made me work 2 minutes late today and I'm not getting any pay for it! :mad:

I'm taking this to SU council now!!!!

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

peachypants wrote:

Look, the point I am making is that the class rep system doesnt appear to be working and should be rectified. If the council are going to act on a student issue then surely the students that they represent should be consulted in some form or other.

We're in agreement then that council should avoid silly motions. I would argue that motions about Dublin winning the Sam and the war in Afghanistan are equally silly. The answer you gave when I raised the issue earlier today was:

peachypants wrote:

If you put yourself forward as class rep then you are expected to carry out the duties required. If reps are afraid to get up in front of their peers in case they become a "billy-no-mates" then they shouldn't be reps.

Regardless of what the motion was, the students should have been given a chance to have their say.

Fact is we arent.

peachypants wrote:

If they are going to claim to be doing what the students want then surely they should ask the students exactly what that is.

I've heard the argument before about reps not doing their jobs and reps not consulting their classes but I don't think they're valid. The current system where anyone can put a motion in and expect to have it announced infront of all the lectures in the college is clearly stupid.

I agree with you that student issued need to be addressed and if the reps limited themselves to this the whole system would run a lot smoother and a lot more people would be interested in getting involved.

Jonny Arson

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

^ the very least the class reps could do is make themselves even known to the students they represent by introducing themselves at one of the first lectures or even by putting up their contact details on a department noticeboard. Something simple and small like that would be a good step for using the reps as a medium between the UCDSU and the normal everyday students.

Out of all my reps since I started last year I've only ever known the name of one of them. The rest have been completely non-existent.

Vorsprung

In NUI, Galway the SU is prohibited from tackling issues that don't directly relate to the larger student body. This may be a bit on the severe side, but how's this - Council deals with all our everyday problems first at any meeting, and after let them talk politics and play with their banners after.

scop

Well as long as you have people like Oisin 'Middle Class Guilt' Kelly about the place you can be sure of such motions.

anonymous_joe

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

But these workers arent the unions problem!the union shouldnt be spending precious time in council meetings to discuss this sort of nonsense.Tell me if I was a class rep how would this be relevant to my class?I would feel embarrsed going back to my class and telling them that this is how I am representing them.
.Imagine if I went back to my class and said-'look lads,I know all your bikes are nicked regularly outside the terrace,that there isnt enough medical textbooks in the library to go around and some of you have to wait 6 weeks to make an appointment with the health services psychologist,and some of you living on campus are scared witless when you walk home at night.But its ok cos at the union coucil meeting last night we discussed how the accom+employment officer is going to get intouch with this women who got sacked from dunnes ,and its okay cos then we discussed how we are going to try and stop building the fourth desperatly needed on campus accomodation cos these three other blokes we dont know got sacked'

I say that because this is something happening in UCD currently. Protesting against Shannon, Irish Ferries, things like that is of little use, seen as no-one really cares what us annoying little students think. However, something like that, which actually involves the college would be of more importance to me. I know things like the Coke boycott are silly, but I would surmise that many students would prefer that those working on campus be paid fair wages and so on, seen as minimum wage jobs are the lot of most employed students.

My opinion is, the student union should really stick to issues effecting students of UCD, be they in Belfield, or any other part of UCD. There's no point getting involved in the wider world of politics. Some have said here that protests against Shannon and other such issues are 'of interest' to the student body. While that's certainly true, I find it quite condescending to think that the Student Union seems to feel I need them to organise a protest to express the views of us students, if we desire to express opinions on issues outside of UCD, we're all more than capable of doing so ourselves, and have little need for the Union to involve itself in such matters on our behalf.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Riiiiiiiight.

So, how exactly do I "take on board" inaccurate and unfounded allegations that I spend time and effort and waste money on the war, Shannon, or the Rossport 5 etc?

Would you like me to say something like "I take on board your false allegations, and I promise that I will continue to not do these things that you say I do."



?????

Vainglory,when your signature is beside the proposal for a women who got sacked from dunnes stores as I showed earlier,than I would hardly call my allegations false.Please listen to what I am trying to say,instead of arguing back at me.By all means though defend why you think it is important to bring a dunnes stores problem up at union council meeting?

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Don't argue back at you? I'm perfectly entitled to argue, thanks.

Firstly, I was asked to bring the motion to council on behalf of somebody who is not a class rep. I then passed speaking rights to this person so they could propose the motion. I would do this for anyone who wasn't a rep, regardless of the motion.

Secondly, I'd like people to look at the mandate in this motion. In the first part, it calls for the reinstatement of Joanne Delaney. It doesn't call for any money to be spent, for any time to be wasted, or any effort to be exerted(which I thought was your problem with "non-student issues"). It is a simple, easy expression of solidarity with someone who was sacked for trade union activity. One of the cornerstones of the UCDSU constitution is the defence of the right to peaceful association. This part of the mandate does not require any officer to do anything. I fail to see the problem.

The second part of the mandate requires the President to instruct the Accommodation and Employment Officer to organise a talk on young worker's rights. Now, if this sort of thing isn't EXACTLY what the A&E officer should be doing, then why do we have one? A huge number of students work part time. Are you seriously telling me that it's a bad thing for us to be able to avail of information on our rights as young workers?

Again, the hysteria around this sort of thing really bores me. At least give out about something worthwhile, rather than berating the Union for mandating the A&E officer to organise a talk on young workers rights, which would undoubtedly be of benefit to the many, many thousands of UCD students who work part-time to fund their way through college. The way you're going on about it, I could almost swear that the motion had mandated every sabbatical officer to spend the rest of the year, 24/7, picketing Dunnes Stores.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

I fail to see the problem.

Obviously

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

Obviously

And you fail to explain it.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Don't argue back at you? I'm perfectly entitled to argue, thanks.

Again, the hysteria around this sort of thing really bores me. .

No jane,when your offering the students of UCD,which you are and as the poll says here that are over 50% of people on boards are dissatisfied with the service you offer,then you should be listnening to what we are saying.Instead,you ignore what I and many others are saying and constantly try to argue back at us.When I was running for welfare,I listened to what you had to say and took it on board and as an elected officer you should be doing this.If this dissatisfaction of the union 'bores' you,then it is quite obvious that the plight of us students is not your primary concern.I mean listnening to students grieveances about the union is not half as fun as a good old protest.If you take up the the position of education officer and if you find listnening to 51% dissatisfied students boring than you really should have taken a less boring role.Maybe run for ents officer next year.......

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

And you fail to explain it.

i was afraid of boring you. Comment was in relation to your repeated denial that spending time on non student issues might possibly detract from the work of the unioj in promoting strictly student's issues. The 'I fail to see a problem' comment.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

And also i dont think joanne Delaney,somone who has just been sacked from her job ,is the best person to address the employed in UCD?Be honest,this is not about workers rights in UCD,if it was you would bring in some other representative into addreess students.I really dont think Joanne Delaney is qualified to educate us students??By all means do this in your labouryouth free time but dont drag the students union into her mess.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Don't argue back at you? I'm perfectly entitled to argue, thanks.

Firstly, I was asked to bring the motion to council on behalf of somebody who is not a class rep. I then passed speaking rights to this person so they could propose the motion. I would do this for anyone who wasn't a rep, regardless of the motion
.

Ok will you please put in a motion for me at the next council meeting,I dont know who my class rep is so il have to ask you to do it.
Can we pass a motion that Union counil meetings as bigjimthefirst suggested should soely stick to UCD issues,so dunnes stores,construction companys, and anything outside belfield can be disscussed at another meeting.Do I need to get somone to second it and then can I drop it into your office??#
If any boardies have suggestions of the proposal then pm me and w'ell get this sorted out once and for all!

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

No jane,when your offering the students of UCD,which you are and as the poll says here that are over 50% of people on boards are dissatisfied with the service you offer,then you should be listnening to what we are saying.Instead,you ignore what I and many others are saying and constantly try to argue back at us.When I was running for welfare,I listened to what you had to say and took it on board and as an elected officer you should be doing this.If this dissatisfaction of the union 'bores' you,then it is quite obvious that the plight of us students is not your primary concern.I mean listnening to students grieveances about the union is not half as fun as a good old protest.If you take up the the position of education officer and if you find listnening to 51% dissatisfied students boring than you really should have taken a less boring role.Maybe run for ents officer next year.......

Elisa. 22 people voted that they were dissatisfied with UCDSU. That is a mighty 0.1% of UCD's student population. 18 people voted that they were satisfied. Hardly the most conclusive or scientific survey ever now, is it? But that really isn't the point.

I do listen to students' concerns. However, I sometimes do not agree with them. If I did not listen to them, I'd imagine that I would find it quite hard to respond to them and give my views, as I have done here. Some people seem to think that being an elected officer means you have to forego any opinions of your own and try to achieve some unachievable consensus utopia with the whole student body. This is not possible. Of course I listen to students' concerns but similarly, of course I have a right to disagree with them. Being an officer doesn't negate that right.

Put it this way, if I changed what I was doing on any issue because one set of students disagreed and claimed I wasn't listening to them, I would immediately have another set of students disagreeing with the new direction and claiming I wasn't listening to THEM.

Not listening is bad. Not agreeing is perfectly normal, and I have every right to do so, as they do with me. However, if we do happen to wake up tomorrow in a world where everyone agrees with each other on ANY issue, then please let me know.

I notice that you thought it was wise not to try and argue that a talk organised by the Accomodation and Employment Officer of the SU on young worker's rights was a bad thing. Good move.

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

Ok will you please put in a motion for me at the next council meeting,I dont know who my class rep is so il have to ask you to do it.
Can we pass a motion that Union counil meetings as bigjimthefirst suggested should soely stick to UCD issues,so dunnes stores,construction companys, and anything outside belfield can be disscussed at another meeting.Do I need to get somone to second it and then can I drop it into your office??#
If any boardies have suggestions of the proposal then pm me and w'ell get this sorted out once and for all!

Unfortunately you'd need to alter the constitution to do something like that and that requires referendum.

panda100

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Elisa. 22 people voted that they were dissatisfied with UCDSU. That is a mighty 0.1% of UCD's student population. 18 people voted that they were satisfied. Hardly the most conclusive or scientific survey ever now, is it? But that really isn't the point.




I notice that you thought it was wise not to try and argue that a talk organised by the Accomodation and Employment Officer of the SU on young worker's rights was a bad thing. Good move.

But jane I dont understand how you can say this.When it comes to protesting at Michael McDowell when he comes to campus the union says that ALL students are important so its important that the union has an-anti deportation mandate.The union has said that even if its just one UCD student being threatened with deportation than it is the students unions problem also.But now when its just 22 students that are dissatisfied with the union,us 22 people are insignificant.Are we 22 students not as important than the nigerian studenmt who was going to be deported last year???You listened to him,then why not lisaten to us??

Well i dont think it is a wise move to get Joanne delaney,someone who was just sacked from her job into talk to students,no.If this was really about workers rights then the accomodation and employment officer should have done this a long time ago before joanne became such a hot topic on indymedia and within labouryouth.If you would have listened to my proposals on my manifesto,which you said you mostly dissagrees with You will see that one of the things I proposed was a 'Know your rights day'.Trinity have had one every year and it is very suuccesful.However,of course our union has to go about things in a completly useless way and 'express solidarity' with a sacked dunnes stores worker and get her to educate students on our rights.

singingstranger

(1) No I am not satisified with USDSU

*is smug at the copying and pasting of stuff he typed himself... on ucdsu.net ... ^_^*

For the benefit of those who weren't there or haven't managed to feel it out yet, both of the motions that Elisa C&Ped earlier in this thread were both passed by Council. I might add that the key point that (I reckon anyway) swung the vote in favour of the one about Collen Construction is that while the three builders weren't UCDSU members, they were building on-campus residences which surely impacts on current and future members.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

i'm not commenting on how relevant it is, and of course we all have the right to opinionate on the UCDSU, but it's my duty as an actuary student and bored person to inform yous that of the 18 that voted in favour of the union, 28% have declared themselves to be union reps, and one is not a rep but is secretary of the union.

That 28% should be considered in the interpretation of the poll, given the limited enough volume of participants.

Again, nobody's value is worth more or less than anybody else's, except in the context of survey polls!

Edit: so far 51% are dissatisfied with UCDSU. 48% are satisfied, but only 20% of those who are satisfied with UCDSU are not reps/ secretary of the union

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

panda100 wrote:

But jane I dont understand how you can say this.When it comes to protesting at Michael McDowell when he comes to campus the union says that ALL students are important so its important that the union has an-anti deportation mandate.The union has said that even if its just one UCD student being threatened with deportation than it is the students unions problem also.But now when its just 22 students that are dissatisfied with the union,us 22 people are insignificant.Are we 22 students not as important than the nigerian studenmt who was going to be deported last year???You listened to him,then why not lisaten to us??

As I have said already, some issues are divisive. That is natural. The way we get around this and decide how a divided body acts on these issues is by having a vote and establishing mandate. Majority voting, unless you have an alternative, is the best way to go about these things. Consensus is impossible.

There is mandate on anti-deportations. There was a vote. There is no mandate for UCDSU to only campaign on UCD issues. There was no vote. If you would like a vote, you can make it so.

Vainglory

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

InFront wrote:

i'm not commenting on how relevant it is, and of course we all have the right to opinionate on the UCDSU, but it's my duty as an actuary student and bored person to inform yous that of the 18 that voted in favour of the union, 28% have declared themselves to be union reps, and one is not a rep but is secretary of the union.

That 28% should be considered in the interpretation of the poll, given the limited enough volume of participants.

Again, nobody's value is worth more or less than anybody else's, except in the context of survey polls!

Edit: so far 51% are dissatisfied with UCDSU. 48% are satisfied, but only 20% of those who are satisfied with UCDSU are not reps/ secretary of the union

51% of 40 people, yes.

Pythia

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Well there was only 200 people at the last modularisation protest which is 1% of students.
So only 1% of people oppose modularisation, by that logic.
99% satisfaction, they must be doing something right.

:rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

Elisa. 22 people voted that they were dissatisfied with UCDSU. That is a mighty 0.1% of UCD's student population. 18 people voted that they were satisfied. Hardly the most conclusive or scientific survey ever now, is it? But that really isn't the point.

How many of the 18 who voted that they were satisfied are SU reps I wonder?

I'd love to see a Campus-wide vote on satisfaction with UCDSU. I wager there would be a hell of alot more dissatisfied than 0.1%.

John_C

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

Vainglory wrote:

51% of 40 people, yes.

Jane, you're closing your eyes here to a big problem with the union. Only 40 people are on these boards but that figure is roughly in line with my own experience in UCD. Most of my friends are hostile towards the union and while that might not be true of the peoople you hang around with I would be surprised if the poll wasn't roughly accurate.

Nearly every bit of evidance points to the union being out of touch with its members. Votes have turnouts of about 20-30%. Many classes have no rep because noone wants the job and most reps who are elected don't go to the meetings. Have you ever wondered why, during election time, candidates are regularly booed out of lecture teatheres and have stuff thrown at them? You can keep ignoring each individual bit of evidance but it pretty much all points in the same direction.

A few of us have come on here to let you know where we think the problems are and what can be done to fix them. You can ignore us if you like but don't claim that you are acting in the interests of the majority of students or for the good of the union. You are clearly not.

John

larryone

(2) They should disaffiliate from USI

I think she would be acting in the interests of the union if those who are totally dissatisfied were allowed to leave.

InFront

(2) They should not disaffiliate from USI

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

How many of the 18 who voted that they were satisfied are SU reps I wonder?

I'd love to see a Campus-wide vote on satisfaction with UCDSU. I wager there would be a hell of alot more dissatisfied than 0.1%.

originally posted by inFront: of the 18 that voted in favour of the union, 28% have declared themselves to be union reps, and one is not a rep but is secretary of the union.

That 28% should be considered in the interpretation of the poll, given the limited enough volume of participants.

Again, nobody's value is worth more or less than anybody else's, except in the context of survey polls!

Edit: so far 51% are dissatisfied with UCDSU. 48% are satisfied, but only 20% of those who are satisfied with UCDSU are not reps/ secretary of the union

That many