British Soldiers Beating Up Children In Iraq

Jim10000

A group of armed soldiers dragged a few unarmed children into a yard and beat them up mercilessly. It doesn't matter what the children had been doing previously, that's beside the point. The soldiers are there to do a job and this isn't it, it doesn't matter how angry/bored/sexually frustrated they are.

The cameraman seems to be getting almost orgasmic pleasure from watching the violence. I'm amazed anyone can watch this either 'in the flesh' or on tape and not feel repulsed by it.

There would be no point in The News Of the World dubbing his voice on afterwards, the story would be strong enough with out it and they'd run the risk of undermining the story when the truth came out.

I think all this 'what would you do if you were there?' stuff is farcical.

Cosine

Kellxor and zen it is about the british troups being there. They are invaders from the Iraq's perspective.

Ex: If a bunch of Iraq's took over the country (ignoring the troubles in the north and the fact that the rest of europe would help us) they kill a bunch of your country men and then sit there what would you do? What would the majority do? Hell look at the north if you want a close example the IRA have been, well up till recently, fighting the "foreign invaders" to try and drive them out.

I dont think that the kids should have just gotten a slap on the rist and told "dont be bold again" but there are limits. If some kid threw rocks at you would you honestly beat 7 kinds of **** out of him with a truncheon if you had one?

Manic Moran

Hobbes wrote:

Do you have a source for that photo? The reason I ask is it looks very familar to the photos of the British soldiers being firebombed when they broke into an Iraqai prison to rescue one of thier own for being jailed.

You're thinking of the photo of the Warrior TC on fire as he bailed out of his track in Sept 2005. http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/09/20/basra2_wideweb__430x400.jpg

The photo linked above was March 2004. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/23/1079939644096.html?from=storyrhs

Guys in desert uniform on fire probably look pretty similar. Those riots were pretty nasty. I ran into an SSM who was at them when I was on exchange in the UK, he showed me a series of photographs that would not look out of place in Palestine.

Despite the outrage in the West, Basra is pretty quiet. Local Chief of Police is wondering what all the furore is about. Beating adolescents is about par for the course over there, even if they're family members. (You should try driving through an Iraqi village and watching the adults keep the kids in line). Corporal punishment is the defacto standard, seems to be more effective than a stern talking to for them.

It should be pointed out that the lads, if they were indeed the ones throwing stuff, are lucky they only got their asses whooped. British Army ROEs authorise shooting people lobbing missiles at them. It can be argued that the British were far more restrained than most other armies would have been. Testicle kick was a bit out of line though.

NTM

Sofaspud

Deleted User wrote:

I can't get over this.... The simple question I would ask you is: IF a group of kids start throwing bricks at you, what would you do? I'd find the little ****, and kick the crap out of him.

Although a more suitable equivalent would be if you went onto an street where a group of kids were minding their own business, but because you didn't like somebody who lived on this street, you decided to kick the excrement out of everybody else who lived on the street, supposedly for their own good. would you blame the kids for throwing stones at you then?

Cosine

I've seen people compare the situation here in Ireland to that in Iraq, and saying its completely wrong. The problem with this, is that the situation is completel different. Iraq is still pretty much a warzone. These kids launched missiles (stones) at British troops. They could have been easily shot but the british just battered them a bit.

The crap about the kids being unarmed & innocent is rubbish. The fact is that they participated on an attack on british troops. simply that.

Cosine wrote:

Kellxor and zen it is about the british troups being there. They are invaders from the Iraq's perspective.

Is it? I think its more about Irish people loving to bash British people by drawing comparisons with either the north, or Britains occupation here in the republic. Many posters here love to bash england for the sake of it. I doubt its from Iraqi's perspective at all.

Jim10000 wrote:

A group of armed soldiers dragged a few unarmed children into a yard and beat them up mercilessly.

More hyping of the event. They werent beaten up all that much. The kick in the balls was probably the worst of it. Watch the video and stop making more of it than it is.

It doesn't matter what the children had been doing previously, that's beside the point.

A couple of people have mentioned this, and its downright idiotic. Nothing they did mattered? So if they had launched grenades, or fired a rpg launcher into British soldiers? Or even if they had actually killed someone with their rocks?

You'd forgive these children for killing people? Regardless of what they may have done?
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood062105.html

Would you still take this retarded moral standpoint? FFS, do you plan to remove all responsibility from kids that involve themselves in stupid, or even dangerous activities? The "kids" in that video were old enough to know what they were doing. They weren't four year olds.

zen63

That is not a savage beating - nor is it mercilessly. I have been assaulted in Ireland and the beating was significantly worse. Those 'kids' could have walked away from that. When someone stops shouting because they are unconscious - that’s a merciless beating. Stop sensationalising.

The ‘News Of The World’ has a history of sensationalised tabloid reporting and without the voiceover on that video, its frankly no more disturbing than a trip into some of the more disadvantaged parts of Ireland.

To all the posters who say it’s wrong to have done this - what do you recommend?

Jail Time
Public Flogging (which is the norm in much of the region)
Tear Gas
Rubber Bullets
Opening fire on them
Ignoring them?

Its all very well and good having a sensationalist attitude and a righteous zeal but at least be constructive in your critism - or you are nothing better than a Fox News pundit

Cosine

Deleted User wrote:

Is it? I think its more about Irish people loving to bash British people by drawing comparisons with either the north, or Britains occupation here in the republic. Many posters here love to bash england for the sake of it. I doubt its from Iraqi's perspective at all.

I am not in this for Britain bashing I am taking it from the point of view of the Iraq's as best I can as, I hope, everyone else is.

The last time another country said they'd help was america and they backed out halfway through. This time they stayed but they arn't leaving and from the looks of it won't be for another while yet. The Iraq's seem to want independence and I'm sure that covers the british as much as it covers the americans.

I do have to admit though that the soldiers don't seem to hit the kids much except when they are forcing them to the ground. That said yer man kicking the guy in the nuts while he is lying face down and was aparently the most helpful of the prisoners is just not right

lostexpectation

so we have a lot of people on here saying this is no big deal, happens all the time, any army would have do this, ( having Irish soldiers come up against riots in Liberia?) and in the same breath say all soldiers are not the same and they act honourably and are Irish soldiers are not the same

which is it?

Nuttzz

perhaps irish soldiers are smart enough not to video or talk about their actions....

/edit irish soldiers were priased for their actions during riots in kosovo last year iirc

WalkswithDeath

muletide wrote:

dont see any major problem with it I guarantee the kids wont do it again.
Put yourself in that position and ask yourself what you would do if the same little sh1ts were throwing rocks at you every day of the week

so what they get a few rocks thrown at them it . there not wanted over there if british soldiers were marching up and down in Dublin do u think they wouldn't have a few rocks thrown at them here.
there is a difference from helping a country that want you there.
or going in to a country if the people like it or not

zen63

so what they get a few rocks thrown at them it

So what they got a beating :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

The soldiers involved should be charged with GBH. People can talk all they want about what *may* have happened prior to these soldiers abducting these teenagers and subjecting them to a series of vicious assaults, it does not hide the fact that what the soldiers did was illegal and they should be held accountable for that.

The ROE do not allow soldiers to beat people who pose no threat... That is GBH and they should be charged.

county

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The soldiers involved should be charged with GBH. People can talk all they want about what *may* have happened prior to these soldiers abducting these teenagers and subjecting them to a series of vicious assaults, it does not hide the fact that what the soldiers did was illegal and they should be held accountable for that.

The ROE do not allow soldiers to beat people who pose no threat... That is GBH and they should be charged.

GBH,you having a laugh,see worse beatings in primary school

A Dub in Glasgo

Suggest you watch the video clip again, I fail to see the teenagers being assaulted with feathers

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The soldiers involved should be charged with GBH. People can talk all they want about what *may* have happened prior to these soldiers abducting these teenagers and subjecting them to a series of vicious assaults, it does not hide the fact that what the soldiers did was illegal and they should be held accountable for that.

I'm curious. Had they been any other nation's troops hitting those kids, would you be this adament about your punishements? Because just about every second post that I see coming from you involves your hatred of Britain.

Firstly how was any of this illegal? Those kids assaulted combat troops in a combat zone. Those troops acted while under threat, and did nothing that permanently hurt in any way.

Secondly, abducting. How exactly did they abduct these kids? Where did they take them where they so badly beat the crap out of these kids? Iran? Their compound? Narnia?

Thirdly, vicious assaults. I wonder can you remember going to primary school? I received more damage done by other pupils than those kids received. Where was the pouring of blood on the ground, where were the broken arms, where were the people that carried them away on stretchers? Cause all i saw was a bit of roughing up, which didn't seem to cause any real physical damage.

Accountable. See above. I'm rather curious though, do you feel those kids should be held accountable for breaking the law imposed by the Iraqi Government, by attacking the British troops? I rather doubt you do..... :eek:

The ROE do not allow soldiers to beat people who pose no threat... That is GBH and they should be charged.

You need glasses and a wake-up call. No Grevious Bodily Harm was done. You're being a sensationalist. Nothing less. :rolleyes:

county

Deleted User wrote:

I'm curious. Had they been any other nation's troops hitting those kids, would you be this adament about your punishements? Because just about every second post that I see coming from you involves your hatred of Britain.

Firstly how was any of this illegal? Those kids assaulted combat troops in a combat zone. Those troops acted while under threat, and did nothing that permanently hurt in any way.

Secondly, abducting. How exactly did they abduct these kids? Where did they take them where they so badly beat the crap out of these kids? Iran? Their compound? Narnia?

Thirdly, vicious assaults. I wonder can you remember going to primary school? I received more damage done by other pupils than those kids received. Where was the pouring of blood on the ground, where were the broken arms, where were the people that carried them away on stretchers? Cause all i saw was a bit of roughing up, which didn't seem to cause any real physical damage.

Accountable. See above. I'm rather curious though, do you feel those kids should be held accountable for breaking the law imposed by the Iraqi Government, by attacking the British troops? I rather doubt you do..... :eek:



You need glasses and a wake-up call. No Grevious Bodily Harm was done. You're being a sensationalist. Nothing less. :rolleyes:

well said;)

RasTa

LOL would you get off your high horse you NAZI (Hunter S Thompson) Take a step away from your right wing views and honestly convince yourself that they where "attacking" British troops who where armed with riot gear, guns and tanks at their wayside. Now compare that to a group of angry teenagers lobbing stones at them. It used to happen everyday in Isreal and they would sit there and take it knowing full well that they couldnt be harmed. I feel the soliders where bored and decided to charge the group, bring in a few for a kicking
The good owl English way with the brillant British Army

My main problem with the fascists on this thread is that they are saying the kids deserved the beating without any evidence of their crimes.

R0ot

OMFG! Seriously wtf!? :mad: :eek:

county

RasTa wrote:

. Now compare that to a group of angry teenagers lobbing stones at them. It used to happen everyday in Isreal and they would sit there and take it knowing full well that they couldnt be harmed.



and what planet do you live on
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/hass.html

RasTa

Earth, In Ireland, where do you live ? England.. thought so.
Show me evidence that it was those kids and they were not just caught up in a group. There is two sides to every story but i dont condone the beating up of civialians a couple of minutes after capture. Do you ?

county

RasTa wrote:

Earth, In Ireland, where do you live ? England.. thought so.
Show me evidence that it was those kids and they were not just caught up in a group. There is two sides to every story but i dont condone the beating up of civialians a couple of minutes after capture. Do you ?

my point being if that was in the west bank those kids would have got more than a beating,israeli soldiers would not stand back and let them selves be stoned
and to claifly things,i live in ireland

Manic Moran

RasTa wrote:

Now compare that to a group of angry teenagers lobbing stones at them. It used to happen everyday in Isreal and they would sit there and take it knowing full well that they couldnt be harmed.

You do realise that things like molotov cocktails are categorised as lethal weapons, and throwing them at people can result in your being shot? Bricks can be as well, depending on what he chap on the receiving end is wearing.

NTM

zen63

A Dub In Glasgow - Your post reads like a tabloid newspaper – a series of vicious attacks – soldiers act illegally – teenage abduction – grievous bodily harm.

GBH implies lasting bodily harm - There was none visible from the video.

Abduction refers to the UNLAWFUL removal of a person - How do you see troops authorised by the standing Iraqi government removing trouble makers as being against the Iraqi laws?

Vicious Attacks - That depends on your views on what’s vicious, this was considerably less than you might see on a Saturday night in Ireland. By comparison the Saudi police will have no problems in a similar assault case (because that’s what those kids did) in punishing the 'children' with severe corporal punishment - perhaps worse depending on the circumstance. <sarcasm>But hey those Arabs they are savages and us westerners are so much more enlightened</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

You are right, people *may* talk about what happened prior to this video, but your commentary on the *evidence* at hand is wildly incorrect, based on a poor understanding of the region, and sensationalised IMO to fit with your pattern anti-British posts. May I suggest you move on, most other people have, and Ireland <all of it> is a better place for it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote:

I'm curious. Had they been any other nation's troops hitting those kids, would you be this adament about your punishements?

Yes

Because just about every second post that I see coming from you involves your hatred of Britain.

Hatred of Britain, please point out where

Firstly how was any of this illegal?

Beating up people, who are already restrained, is illegal. What law do you follow?

Those kids assaulted combat troops in a combat zone.

And you know they assaulted the troops how exactly?

Those troops acted while under threat, and did nothing that permanently hurt in any way.

Under threat of what? They had the kids restrained. How do you know they 'did nothing that permanently hurt'?

Secondly, abducting. How exactly did they abduct these kids? Where did they take them where they so badly beat the crap out of these kids? Iran? Their compound? Narnia?

Where the kids arrested? If not, it is abduction. They beat the crap out of them in a military compound.

Thirdly, vicious assaults. I wonder can you remember going to primary school?

Yes

I received more damage done by other pupils than those kids received.

Good for you

Where was the pouring of blood on the ground, where were the broken arms, where were the people that carried them away on stretchers?

How do you know that none of the above applies?

Cause all i saw was a bit of roughing up, which didn't seem to cause any real physical damage.

You can down play all you like, they beat the crap out of these restrained kids and that is illegal

Accountable. See above. I'm rather curious though, do you feel those kids should be held accountable for breaking the law imposed by the Iraqi Government, by attacking the British troops? I rather doubt you do..... :eek:

Yes, where the kids arrested and charged? Where the soldiers arrested and charged?

You need glasses and a wake-up call.

How so

No Grevious Bodily Harm was done. You're being a sensationalist. Nothing less. :rolleyes:

You know this how?

A Dub in Glasgo

zen63 wrote:

A Dub In Glasgow - Your post reads like a tabloid newspaper – a series of vicious attacks – soldiers act illegally – teenage abduction – grievous bodily harm.

No more tabloid than those that say 'Ack sure, no harm was done to the kids and they deserved everything they got'.

GBH implies lasting bodily harm - There was none visible from the video.

Apart from the beatings, very little was visible from the video

Abduction refers to the UNLAWFUL removal of a person - How do you see troops authorised by the standing Iraqi government removing trouble makers as being against the Iraqi laws?

Where the kids arrested and charged. Taking kids behind a compound wall to beat the crap out of them is abduction.

Vicious Attacks - That depends on your views on what’s vicious, this was considerably less than you might see on a Saturday night in Ireland. By comparison the Saudi police will have no problems in a similar assault case (because that’s what those kids did) in punishing the 'children' with severe corporal punishment - perhaps worse depending on the circumstance. <sarcasm>But hey those Arabs they are savages and us westerners are so much more enlightened</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

It is either a vicious beating or it was not. Rationalising it by comparing to other beatings does not make it less vicious

You are right, people *may* talk about what happened prior to this video, but your commentary on the *evidence* at hand is wildly incorrect,

Could be nearly as incorrect as the 'Ack sure, no harm was done to the kids and they deserved everything they got'. posts here

based on a poor understanding of the region,

How so? Are you rationalising it by comparing to other situations?

and sensationalised IMO to fit with your pattern anti-British posts.

What anti-British posts?

May I suggest you move on, most other people have, and Ireland <all of it> is a better place for it.

What has this sentence got to do with soldiers beating the crfap out of kids?

Shabadu

Beer is Life wrote:

Why dont I care about this? Maybe its because these "Children" had been rioting? Maybe its because the British soldiers were tired of seeing these riots every single day? Maybe they had to send a message to the leaders of that group or the people that start these things? **** them, and if they start another riot, I hope they get beat as bad.

Why are people so sympathetic? How do you know those "children" werent responsible for the deaths of British soldiers? Its a war for ****s sake, its always ugly

Just out of curiousity, would you be saying the same thing if this footage was set in the North of Ireland in the seventies?

franksm

Shabadu wrote:

Just out of curiousity, would you be saying the same thing if this footage was set in the North of Ireland in the seventies?

Why not ?

Look at the way riots are dealt with in Belfast today - the police/army sit in the middle and are afraid to do anything or make any arrests for fear of all the high-horses clip-clopping in and accusing them of "hurting the poor innocent childer" (to use a colloquiallism).

I was brought up as a catholic(taig/fenian - more colloquiallism ) in south Belfast and I plus everyone I know from there are disgusted that the police cannot do anything these days to sort out stonethrowers, etc. Just look at the recent riots in Ardoyne. You probably saw people throwing petrol bombs and fireworks from roofs of houses. And you might think that it was loyalists rioting because they weren't allowed to march in Ardoyne - no, there were nationalists rioting against the police there too. Rather embarrassingly, one of the few people they managed to arrest was a catholic schoolboy.

tj-music.com

For **** sake! Really disturbing footage. "To have power is to abuse it" unfortunately.

Disciplinary action and severe consequences are needed asap.

:mad:

Shabadu

@franksm: Note that I specified the seventies.

Look, whatever about restraining a suspect, you simply cannot excuse the vicious treatment of those boys, or the absolute savagery displayed by the film maker. Even if you don't believe that these children have the right to riot against the troops, people can't honestly believe that an armed force that are supposedly there to help these people have the right to do that to civilians.

How are the actions of these soldiers going to speed the process of bringing peace to Iraq? That is what they're meant to be doing, isn't it?

How are the actions of these soldiers going to speed the process of bringing peace to Iraq? That is what they're meant to be doing, isn't it?

How is ignoring their attacks going to help the process either? Simply put, those kids had no discipline placed upon them, and they placed themselves in a situation that could have potentially killed them.

Many people here disagree with me, and thats fine. However I think the British actions will have a better influence over these "kids" than ignoring them. Strength is what the Arab culture understands, and these kids will understand now that there are consequences for their actions.

had they thrown stones at the Republican Guard, I doubt many of them would have survived to understand that such actions, have consequences. Maybe they'll think twice about attacking combat troops in the future, thus saving their lives. Lord knows they'll have access to more dangerous weaponry than stones in the near future, and that small beating may help them not to start killing.

Shabadu

Deleted User wrote:

How is ignoring their attacks going to help the process either? Simply put, those kids had no discipline placed upon them, and they placed themselves in a situation that could have potentially killed them.

Excuse me, but there is a difference between restraining someone, questioning them, and viciously beating them. There are more options than:

a) beat the shit out of them

or

b) ignore them

Many people here disagree with me, and thats fine. However I think the British actions will have a better influence over these "kids" than ignoring them. Strength is what the Arab culture understands, and these kids will understand now that there are consequences for their actions.

Wow, teach those Arabs a lesson in respect through violence? Spare me your leaping generalisations and pop psychology please. There have been many, many displays of 'strength' throughout the history of all the Arab nations; we have yet to see one that has put an end to conflict in the region. In fact, all an 'act of strength' does is beget more violence.

Those soldiers are not granted permission to hand out a punishment based on what they believe is acceptable.

had they thrown stones at the Republican Guard, I doubt many of them would have survived to understand that such actions, have consequences. Maybe they'll think twice about attacking combat troops in the future, thus saving their lives. Lord knows they'll have access to more dangerous weaponry than stones in the near future, and that small beating may help them not to start killing.

So it's ok for the British troops to beat them, because the Republican gaurd would 'probably' have killed them? In that case it's alright for me to beat the crap out of a Tutsi, because a member of the Interahamwe Hutus would 'probably' kill them?

But truly, how considerate of the troops, having the foresight to beat the crap out of those teenage boys, yes, I'm SURE it will in fact PREVENT them from seeking any sort of vengeance when they are older and better armed. :rolleyes:

Kojak

tj-music.com wrote:

For **** sake! Really disturbing footage. "To have power is to abuse it" unfortunately.

Disciplinary action and severe consequences are needed asap.

:mad:

Agreed. :mad:

How come it took so long for this tape to be made public?

Beer is Life

Shabadu wrote:

Just out of curiousity, would you be saying the same thing if this footage was set in the North of Ireland in the seventies?

Of course I have the luxury of being completely detached from this situation, but the North is different. It doesnt mean any rioters in the North were more or less wrong though, and a bit of a kicking is alot better than the alternative. Also, the North and present day Iraq, in my opinion, shouldnt be compared.

Manic Moran

Everyone's always saying "We should respect and follow the local culture..."

Local culture says "If a kid gets out of line, even if he's not yours, give him a clout"

Just a thought.

NTM

Shabadu

Manic Moran wrote:

Everyone's always saying "We should respect and follow the local culture..."

Local culture says "If a kid gets out of line, even if he's not yours, give him a clout"

Just a thought.

NTM

Oh really? So, where did you study sociology? Can you cite any references to indicate this happens anywhere but your mind?

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Raiser wrote:

This fits nicely with the established profile of the average US/British soldier in Iraq.

18-21 years of age [with a mental age of 12-13]
IQ of 55-65 [enjoys taking orders religiously from w@nkers]
GI Joe, Gung ho lets whup some ass attitude [even if its schoolchildren]

* Possibility of shooting, bombing, maiming fellow British/US army personnel circa 90% * - do a google search on friendly fire incidents....

FFS who joins the army ? Retards mainly......Do you believe those stupid propaganda adds on TV ?

As a soldier, I find this attack INCREDIBLY insulting. You've just called countless members of my family, many friends and ALL of my colleagues retards. Mainly retards? Some of the most intelligent people I know are the ones I have come across in my line of work. There is no excuse for this sort of groundless attack on people like that.

I can guarantee you that if I were to call all binmen retards, all teachers retards or all CEOs retards then there would be hell to pay so why not consider the full impact of your words before you go "gung ho" typing away?

J.R.HARTLEY

the sad part here is the people saying
"whats the harm, how do you know the kids didn't throw rocks, how do you klnow the kids weren't terrorists, it's a war?"
they are beating up handcuffed kids, i don't want to sound like a reverend mother but two wrong won't make a right, you just can't do that, the soldiers mission is to keep the peace not escalate local violence by further enraging the angered iraqis.
and for those who think it's alright becuase it's a war well lads you must never have heard of the geneva convention.
christ if they're the good guys then the earth is ****in doomed. that is not typical soldier carry on, granted i've only met a couple of irish soldiers in my life but they were very strict on their thoughts on violence.

Terry

Bob wrote:

As a soldier, I find this attack INCREDIBLY insulting. You've just called countless members of my family, many friends and ALL of my colleagues retards. Mainly retards? Some of the most intelligent people I know are the ones I have come across in my line of work. There is no excuse for this sort of groundless attack on people like that.

I can guarantee you that if I were to call all binmen retards, all teachers retards or all CEOs retards then there would be hell to pay so why not consider the full impact of your words before you go "gung ho" typing away?

J.R.Hartley wrote:

the sad part here is the people saying
"whats the harm, how do you know the kids didn't throw rocks, how do you klnow the kids weren't terrorists, it's a war?"
they are beating up handcuffed kids, i don't want to sound like a reverend mother but two wrong won't make a right, you just can't do that, the soldiers mission is to keep the peace not escalate local violence by further enraging the angered iraqis.
and for those who think it's alright becuase it's a war well lads you must never have heard of the geneva convention.
christ if they're the good guys then the earth is ****in doomed. that is not typical soldier carry on, granted i've only met a couple of irish soldiers in my life but they were very strict on their thoughts on violence.

my father (who i loved dearly) was a soldier. he was far from a retard. he spoke seven languages fluently, among many other achievements that i'm not going to list off here. i wasn't offended at all by the "retard" statement. it was a little ill informed, but hardly anything to get your knickers in a twist about.
as for the brutality thing. my father was on the border at the height of the troubles. saw many of his squad shot and had a nervous breakdown after it. i can only remember one time in my life that he actually raised a hand to me and i pretty much deserved it at the time.
using army stress is no excuse.

slinky

It's a measure of the mess Iraq is now in that people try to justify headbutting children etc. More pics from Abu ghraib. If this is what goes on when their own troops are filming what goes on off camera?! What a mess! It's not gonna get any better. Why couldn't US/GB forces be replaced by forces from muslim countries under UN control? It's only sliding towards civil war at the moment.

Shabadu

Shabadu wrote:

Excuse me, but there is a difference between restraining someone, questioning them, and viciously beating them. There are more options than:

a) beat the **** out of them

or

b) ignore them

Option A didn't happen, since that wasn't beating the **** out of them. And B didn't happen since ao many people are complaining here.

So what other options would you suggest? Just curious.

Wow, teach those Arabs a lesson in respect through violence? Spare me your leaping generalisations and pop psychology please. There have been many, many displays of 'strength' throughout the history of all the Arab nations; we have yet to see one that has put an end to conflict in the region. In fact, all an 'act of strength' does is beget more violence.

I said strength not violence. Besides in Arab culture beating children for discipline is alot more common, than in the west (at elast nowadays).

And the act of being a pussy doesn't solve anything either. Perhaps make some constructive criticism?

Those soldiers are not granted permission to hand out a punishment based on what they believe is acceptable.

Wow. They didn't ask your permission. Sorry about that.

So it's ok for the British troops to beat them, because the Republican gaurd would 'probably' have killed them? In that case it's alright for me to beat the crap out of a Tutsi, because a member of the Interahamwe Hutus would 'probably' kill them?

Lol. sure. go ahead. Personally I believe these kids got what was coming to them. In fact I'd love to see many kids in Ireland receive the same kinds of punishment, since handling them with kid gloves hasn't worked.

But truly, how considerate of the troops, having the foresight to beat the crap out of those teenage boys, yes, I'm SURE it will in fact PREVENT them from seeking any sort of vengeance when they are older and better armed.

And you're suggesting that doing nothing, wouldn't encourage them to do the same?

The problem here that you want to rant about the poor teenagers/kids being beaten up, but you're not willing to speak of alternatives. And I mean realistic alternatives.

Shabadu

Deleted User wrote:

Option A didn't happen, since that wasn't beating the **** out of them. And B didn't happen since ao many people are complaining here.

So what other options would you suggest? Just curious.

Restraint? Questioning? Once you have apprehended them you don't need to beat them up.

Also, that was beating the crap out of them. It was unnecessary, animalistic violence.

I said strength not violence. Besides in Arab culture beating children for discipline is alot more common, than in the west (at elast nowadays).

Eh, what the soldiers performed was an act of violence, not strength. You were the one who used the word, you should learn to stick by your own descriptions. Also, waaaaay to generalise. Any links or references supporting your claim about arabs beating their children more than 'westerners'? I see scumbags beating up their children every day, it doesn't mean that I'm justified to beat their kids up.

And the act of being a pussy doesn't solve anything either. Perhaps make some constructive criticism?

Right, so they had to do it to keep up their machismo? Also how does not beating someone up equate w/ being a 'pussy'?

Wow. They didn't ask your permission. Sorry about that.

Ha, funny. You know very well what I mean. There is a furore in the forces about this. All a soldier is permitted to do is follow an order. They weren't following orders. If what they did was acceptable, there wouldn't be an investigation into it.

Lol. sure. go ahead. Personally I believe these kids got what was coming to them. In fact I'd love to see many kids in Ireland receive the same kinds of punishment, since handling them with kid gloves hasn't worked.

Beating them up doesn't work either. Do you know what would? Education, good support, incentives to complete college and get a job, help to get out of the cycle of poverty and it's associated substance abuse and addiction problems.

And you're suggesting that doing nothing, wouldn't encourage them to do the same?

When people are treated humanely, they are more inclined to act reasonably, yes. If they had restrained the kids, gotten their parents to collect them, and had a translator explain what the kids had done, and what the forces had done to stop it, it would be less likely to beget future retribution.

The problem here that you want to rant about the poor teenagers/kids being beaten up, but you're not willing to speak of alternatives. And I mean realistic alternatives.

What the fuck are you on about? What happens when someone breaks the law over here? You restrain them. You put them in a holding cell. You get their family to pay bail. You DON'T kick the shit out of them. Beating them up isn't the only choice, it shouldn't even BE a choice.




EDIT: Also, how the hell can you justify having this: What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? - Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War" as your signature when you post this: "I believe these kids got what was coming to them. In fact I'd love to see many kids in Ireland receive the same kinds of punishment..."

Manic Moran

Shabadu wrote:

Oh really? So, where did you study sociology? Can you cite any references to indicate this happens anywhere but your mind?

Nope. But I do have the benefit of a year's experience out and about in Iraq and I definitely did see that corporal disciplining of kids is something of a community affair, carried out by anything from a smack upside the head through to the throwing of rocks. My remark was primarily a tongue-in-cheek comment though. I'm not recommending that it become standard practise.

This fits nicely with the established profile of the average US/British soldier in Iraq
18-21 years of age [with a mental age of 12-13]
IQ of 55-65 [enjoys taking orders religiously from w@nkers]
GI Joe, Gung ho lets whup some ass attitude [even if its schoolchildren]

* Possibility of shooting, bombing, maiming fellow British/US army personnel circa 90% * - do a google search on friendly fire incidents....

FFS who joins the army ? Retards mainly......Do you believe those stupid propaganda adds on TV ?.

Interesting statement. Who did this profiling, out of interest?
I would be most disturbed to noted that I suddenly lost nine years of my life, presumably 18 years of my mental age and over half my IQ when I went over there, only to recover them upon my depature from Iraq's borders. I really don't think that profile fits any of my lads either. Oh well. I'm sure you have a source that declares me a gung-ho w@nker.

NTM

Nuttzz

Saw the video, reminded me of what the christain brothers used to do...

Snickers Man

Beer is Life wrote:

OT a bit but what do the rioters want? Why are they rioting? They want the "occupation" to end? They want to return Iraq to the paradise it was under Saddam? It doesnt make sense to me

"there is no people on Earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power. "

Gandhi

Of course he was a seditious, rabble-rousing treacherous, bloodshed- instigating, bad lot too. Wasn't he?

Got slung in jail often enough.

Snickers Man

Manic Moran wrote:

I'm not saying that the British did nothing wrong, but you have to put it into context.

You sure do. Like if British soldiers weren't there in the first place, they wouldn't be pelted with rocks, would they?

It's the fault of the people who sent them there.

I blame anyone who voted for George Bush.