Do Irish people really like cars ?

RobAMerc

Having travelled and lived in a few spots around the globe, I have come to realize that the car really doesn't feature that high in the average Irish persons loves.

By this I mean, actually understand and appreciate the car they drive or know and undestand driving techniques, not just care it's newer that the Jones's.

As a percentage how many Irish people would be able to tell whats the difference between a v8 versus 8v, or what torque steer is for example compared to our neighbours in the UK or Europe.

I ask this because I rarely meet somebody with any real clue about the car they drive( Despite knowing the owners of some expensive machinery).
Yet everyone is an expert when giving advice. (Just look through this forum at some of the shockers, based purely on unfounded opinions in some cases)

Also the shocking state of the majority of 4+ year old cars out there (Interior too, so state of road aside) shows a total lack of respect for our cars.

Don't get me wrong, there is a genuinely interested and knowledgeable group of people out there supporting a healthy club and competitive scene, I am talking about the relationship between the car and the average Irish person.

Does anyone here agree?

Rob

Silvera

I agree.

The state of most 3-4+ yr old cars is sad. A lot of Irish people lose complete interest in looking after their cars after a couple of years.
The 'new' factor has faded and they regard their cars as 'old'.

Compare this to New Zealand. I lived there in 2004 and it was amazing to see how well maintained and clean most cars there are. I bought a 1988 1.8 Bluebird to tour around in and I can safely say that it was in better condition than many 4 yr old cars in Ireland!

P.S - I know a "little" about cars .......being an ex-Panel Beater

Good topic !

Cheers,
Silvera.

My (well-maintained!) 3 yr old wheels .......

Litcagral

Question: What kind of car do you drive?

Irish Answer: Oh it's a zero six.


:(:(:(:(

Thre is also a tendency to focus too much on resale values. I buy a car because I like it. I couldn't give a toss what the resale value will be.

curiosity

OP, to many people a car is just a means to get from A to B, nothing more. Not everyones priorities are the same. I do accept that some people could look after their cars better, but that's their affair, not mine.

I have no real clue about the difference between v8 and 8v. As for driving technique, I know enough to keep it between the ditches. For the record I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

colm_mcm

funny, the UK is completely different to us when it comes to cars! a couple of examples:

1) on medium sized cars (mondeo avensis vectra) UK buys about 95%hatchbacks and 5% saloons, the Irish figure is reversed

2) Due to tax implications, Irish people will mostly buy the smallest engine size possible. whereas in the UK 1.8 Astras are quite common.

3) The percentage of people with company cars in the UK is a couple of times higher than in Ireland

mike65

curiosity wrote:

I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

Much to be said for this attitude.

As for automotive culture, yes its true and there's no great mystery for it. For decades as other western societies became "motorised" the Irish were hacking about in whatever could be afforded on a low income knowing it would be driven on shocking boreens. Its only in the last 10-15 years things have changed in terms of income (and roads) but culture takes much longer...

Mike.

RobAMerc

curiosity wrote:

OP, to many people a car is just a means to get from A to B, nothing more. Not everyones priorities are the same. I do accept that some people could look after their cars better, but that's their affair, not mine.

I have no real clue about the difference between v8 and 8v. As for driving technique, I know enough to keep it between the ditches. For the record I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

You are quite entitled not to, I just pose the question why is it as a nation so few of us are interested in actually knowing or properly caring for our cars ?
It is the 2nd biggest envestment most of us will ever make!

Just a matter of interest, why are you reading threads in motoring section if you don't care about cars ?

Rob

PauloMN

colm_mcm wrote:

2) Due to tax implications, Irish people will mostly buy the smallest engine size possible. whereas in the UK 1.8 Astras are quite common.

This also results in car manufacturers selling 1.6 engined variants of mid-size family cars in Ireland, indeed they have to do so. It's a pity that our government sees fit to punish someone who chooses even a 1.8 litre family car over a 1.6 litre. The 1.6 litre Avensis or Vectra, just as examples, cannot even be purchased in the UK where the smallest engine available for either of these cars is a 1.8 litre.

curiosity

RobAMerc wrote:

You are quite entitled not to, I just pose the question why is it as a nation so few of us are interested in actually knowing or properly caring for our cars ?
It is the 2nd biggest envestment most of us will ever make!

Just a matter of interest, why are you reading threads in motoring section if you don't care about cars ?

Rob

Rob, I never said I don't care about cars. I actually do feel guilty about not giving my wheels more TLC, so I do accept your point. What people drive and their attitude to cars and driving interests me. I work in an office of about 500 people. Some of the top earners drive quite modest cars, while people earning far less drive very nice cars. Everyone differs.

Personally, at the moment I find driving an old wreck to be just fine. I'm not going to go potty if someone bangs into it with a shopping trolley. I've driven this car for over 10 years so I have gone thru many attitudes to cars. No great hurry to fork out the guts of a years wages for a new one just yet.

How many people need to know to difference between 8v and v8? I assume that this only refers to more powerful cars, which most people will never drive. And what do most people need to know about 'driving technique'? The only technique most need is an ability to handle their vehicle sensibly, while showing manners and consideration to other road users.

Btw, I would not consider a car an investment.

Squirrel

I'm not knowlegable when it comes to cars, though I am always willing to learn, and want to be a mechanic when I'm older. In my family the MR2 gets alot of TLC, whereas the Sonata gets nowhere near as much, but it still is in good condition compared to other 3 year old cars. The only problems are a few dings from other doors hitting it.

The MR2 is 13 years old come March 1st and the only problem we ever had with it in 5 years of ownership is the alternator going.

A 13 year old car Might have something to do with it being a sports car that it gets its attention

RobAMerc

Curiosity, I agree the car you drive very often has no reflection on the money you earn, or indeed what you know or understand about cars, but you seem to be missing my point.

That is, Irish people in general don't care about or have a low understanding of cars,(other than perhaps the bling value) and as a population have a low percentage of people who do.

BTW I believe you do invest in a car, you pay for it and get returns ( ie transport, enjoyment etc) and hope to get something for it when your finished, otherwise your simply flushing cash down the jax

Mike: Well put, I'm worried you might know me too well, I have been saying exactly that for years.

Rob

curiosity

RobAMerc wrote:

Curiosity, I agree the car you drive very often has no reflection on the money you earn, or indeed what you know or understand about cars, but you seem to be missing my point.

That is, Irish people in general don't care about or have a low understanding of cars,(other than perhaps the bling value) and as a population have a low percentage of people who do.

BTW I believe you do invest in a car, you pay for it and get returns ( ie transport, enjoyment etc) and hope to get something for it when your finished, otherwise your simply flushing cash down the jax

Mike: Well put, I'm worried you might know me too well, I have been saying exactly that for years.

Rob

Perhaps I am. I would like to know what exactly you mean by 'understanding', though. Do you mean people who drive high end cars and who don't appreciate the technical and engineering refinements that set their car apart from most others on the road? Or do you mean a simple inability to change a tyre or check their oil level?

For me, the term 'investment' implies common sense. You invest in a house, hoping/knowing that it will still have the same value in ten years time. A business invests in equipment, people etc in order to make money. You buy a new car, drive it for 10 years, it earns you nothing, and it's lost almost all its value. You keep it for 5 years and it loses over half its value. Agreed, concepts like enjoyment are intangible.

Take a Mondeo LX vs a BMW 318d ES. Both 2 litre 4 door saloons. Both do more or less the same thing. But the Mondeo is listed at €29,165 on ford.ie and the 318 is listed at €42,400 on bmw.ie. Yet I am sure many people this year will spend the extra 13 grand on the BMW, mainly because of the image. Over the course of five years the BMW owner loses more money in depreciation. Hopefully he/she enjoys the car, but paying 13 grand for a badge is not an investment in my book, its a luxury ( and a personal choice, happy motoring to all new and old beemer drivers out there).

franksm

Ah reckon you're asking the wrong people
We here love our cars so would be in the minority in actually taking a proper interest in them. That's why there are so many "eccentric" cars evident here

What tends to happen with the general public is a strange sort of celtic-tiger-lemming mentality: once they get a whiff of money, they immediately go out and buy a BMW 3 series. And from there it's a variation on a theme - BMW 1 series - who in their right mind would buy one of these ? The only good thing about them is that they are rear-wheel-drive. Other than that, it's crappy plastics inside, and very cramped. Just a badge I think. People buying Alfas and that kind of thing - I respect them for thinking a little bit outside the box.

Squirrel

franksm wrote:

Ah reckon you're asking the wrong people
We here love our cars so would be in the minority in actually taking a proper interest in them. That's why there are so many "eccentric" cars evident here

What tends to happen with the general public is a strange sort of celtic-tiger-lemming mentality: once they get a whiff of money, they immediately go out and buy a BMW 3 series. And from there it's a variation on a theme - BMW 1 series - who in their right mind would buy one of these ? The only good thing about them is that they are rear-wheel-drive. Other than that, it's crappy plastics inside, and very cramped. Just a badge I think. People buying Alfas and that kind of thing - I respect them for thinking a little bit outside the box.

You also need to thin about the other end of that. For a company car my dad had so much money to spend, so he bought a well equipped Hyundai., not a purists car by any stretch of the imagination. Yet in the '80s he was quicker around Mondello in an Alfasud than others were in Ferraris, so clearly likes his driving

BrianD3

I agree with the previous posts. Irish people generally don't give a crap about their cars. Not only that, they don't give a crap about their driving and take no pride in driving well or with mechanical sympathy etc. They have no respect for anyone elses cars either hence the whacking of doors and hit and runs in car parks. Ever notice how many cars here have big ugly scuffs on the corners of the front bumper? Most of this is due to lazy, sloppy, parking. They swing the car into a space and scrape along the car beside them, damaging it and their own car but they don't give a crap

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage. Then they cry "rip off" even though how do they know they're being ripped off seeing as they know **** all about cars? Not saying that there aren't garages out there who will rip people off but I have heard sob stories from people accusing garges of ripping them off when clearly it wasn't the case. Likewise they start moaning with conspiracy theroies when their POS car fails the NCT.

I agree that many 3-4 year old cars are in a shocking state - even the interiors! Fag burns, food stains, torn upholstery, scuffed and broken trim. How do they manage to wreck the interior in such a short time?

Final thing i'll say is that many people regard those who are into their cars as being a bit sad :rolleyes::mad: I think the logic is that if you are into spending some money/time on a car then you have less time/money to spend getting hammered down the pub, so you must be sad :rolleyes: I think this is a good illustration of sheep mentality. Idiots.

Squirrel

BrianD3 wrote:

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage.

Alot of electrics are in cars nowadays, so when something goes wrong it might have to be left up to a garage

Then again, I know my mam drives with no mechanical sympathy, if the clutch went she wouldn't know what to do, my brother wouldn't be as bad, but my dad, who failed his test first time had to get the car to a garage with a ****ed clutch. The other 2 passed first time, then again, when my dad passed the gear linkage broke and he had to limp back to the test centre, so the test was reduced in time dramatically, and the tester was impressed he made it back

RobAMerc

Ok Curiosity, I am not going to get into the symantics of the term investment with you, perhaps I should have phrased it 'purchase'. It is off the topic entirely.

With regard to peoples understanding of cars.
Firstly I am not talking specifically about owners of high end cars.

By understanding I mean they don't appreciate why one car is better than another car, other than the fact it costs more and other people give them kudos for owning one. Some do rate perhaps reliability, but few know why from a dynamics point of view.

Have a conversation with an average 30 y.o. German/Fr/Italian bloke about some car, I bet they know a bit about it, or ask them about a mark 1 golf gti an Alfa Sud or Citroen ds. I bet they will have a good idea what it is your talking about, and have some appreciation for what it is.

You rarely find Irish people with the same appreciation.

Frank:
I am glad to hear of an MX5 club in Ireland, I hope to join you roofless guys soon if at all possible, I intend on having some wind blow through my hair ( read eyebrows ) soon and I want an MX5 to right a wrong I did some years ago!

Rob

RobAMerc

Brian D3,

I like the cut of your jib

I could have written a thousand words an could not have put it better.
No point in quoting parts of your post, I agree with it all!

Rob

curiosity

BrianD3 wrote:

I agree with the previous posts. Irish people generally don't give a crap about their cars. Not only that, they don't give a crap about their driving and take no pride in driving well or with mechanical sympathy etc. They have no respect for anyone elses cars either hence the whacking of doors and hit and runs in car parks. Ever notice how many cars here have big ugly scuffs on the corners of the front bumper? Most of this is due to lazy, sloppy, parking. They swing the car into a space and scrape along the car beside them, damaging it and their own car but they don't give a crap

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage. Then they cry "rip off" even though how do they know they're being ripped off seeing as they know **** all about cars? Not saying that there aren't garages out there who will rip people off but I have heard sob stories from people accusing garges of ripping them off when clearly it wasn't the case. Likewise they start moaning with conspiracy theroies when their POS car fails the NCT.

I agree that many 3-4 year old cars are in a shocking state - even the interiors! Fag burns, food stains, torn upholstery, scuffed and broken trim. How do they manage to wreck the interior in such a short time?

Final thing i'll say is that many people regard those who are into their cars as being a bit sad :rolleyes::mad: I think the logic is that if you are into spending some money/time on a car then you have less time/money to spend getting hammered down the pub, so you must be sad :rolleyes: I think this is a good illustration of sheep mentality. Idiots.

Hmmmm, I missed the 6:00pm news so I didn't hear about your appointment as our new car minister Brian. If 'POS' means 'piece of s**t' then I wonder why you get so worked up about how total strangers to you treat their property. Do you spend your day peering into peoples cars? I'm sure you have a lovely car/cars and that you enjoy driving and owning it. Concentrate on that and stop fulminating about those of us who don't share your passion.


Rob, all those countries you named have domestic car industries. They are all on continental Europe and are all left hand drive states. Surely this means a person living there will see a greater range of cars??Also, 30 year old males generally are more interested in cars than your average person. (as a 33 year old guy I would know and appreciate all the cars you named there, for aesthetic reasons at least). And yes, reliability is important to people, and rightly so. Fat lot of good 'dynamics' are to you when your car won't start on a Monday morning and you can't get to work.

franksm

RobAMerc wrote:

Frank:
I am glad to hear of an MX5 club in Ireland, I hope to join you roofless guys soon if at all possible, I intend on having some wind blow through my hair ( read eyebrows ) soon and I want an MX5 to right a wrong I did some years ago!

Rob

Hey Rob, glad to hear it! Now's the time to buy, the market for convertibles is depressed in winter. You can pick one up in the UK cheaply enough, and even with VRT, put it on the road for 4 to 5K. Insurance is the only beeatch with MX5s tho. Have you spotted a car you want ? Or maybe have just started looking ? You can of course buy one locally but they cost a bit more.

You're welcome to come out and chew the fat with us - first Wednesday of the month at Strawberry Hall pub, around 8pm. Or first Sunday of the month at Pope's Cross, Phoenix Park at noon.

There a couple of other Merc-heads in the group too - one nut with an '88 190D (plus a Beetle, plus a 2CV (fergawdsake)), and another guy with a much more recent E-class something-or-other.

BrianD3

curiosity wrote:

Hmmmm, I missed the 6:00pm news so I didn't hear about your appointment as our new car minister Brian. If 'POS' means 'piece of s**t' then I wonder why you get so worked up about how total strangers to you treat their property. Do you spend your day peering into peoples cars? I'm sure you have a lovely car/cars and that you enjoy driving and owning it. Concentrate on that and stop fulminating about those of us who don't share your passion.

First of all, the topic is about how Irish people treat their cars not how I personally treat my own car. So yeah, I will post about how total strangers treat their vehicles.

Also if you read the post again and the POS comment that was about people who come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories as to why their car failed the NCT. When in fact the car failed because it was a ball of crap. I get to listen to these sob stories all the time and people don't like it when the truth is pointed out to them.

Finally yes it directly affects me if people don't respect their cars. Because I find that if someone doesnt respect their own property their not going to respect mine either. See comment about car park damage. You can bet that it's not car enthusiasts who are whacking their cars and doors off other vehicles in car parks.

curiosity

BrianD3 wrote:

First of all, the topic is about how Irish people treat their cars not how I personally treat my own car. So yeah, I will post about how total strangers treat their vehicles.

Also if you read the post again and the POS comment that was about people who come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories as to why their car failed the NCT. When in fact the car failed because it was a ball of crap. I get to listen to these sob stories all the time and people don't like it when the truth is pointed out to them.

Finally yes it directly affects me if people don't respect their cars. Because I find that if someone doesnt respect their own property their not going to respect mine either. See comment about car park damage. You can bet that it's not car enthusiasts who are whacking their cars and doors off other vehicles in car parks.

1. The next time someone bends your ear about why their car failed the NCT, don't listen!!! Just laugh to yourself about their misfortune.
2. Do not generalise about other car owners. Lack of respect for other peoples property goes across all car types.

mike65

Shesh, lighten up.

Mike.

Max_Damage

Don't mean to break up the 'debate' here, but I would have to agree with the poster of this thread. I being a temporary car valter (between college), I see first hand the condition of cars, and the majority people don't care about there cars whatsoever. Even a '00 or '01 car would look like something that's well over 15 years old. Just go over to the States, and cars from the 70's and 80's are still regualrly seen, some even before that. Here, seeing a car on the old Irish plates nearly turns heads at this stage, because they are becoming quite rare.

I myself have a 16 year old Micra, and looking around at the other cars, I have one of the oldest machine on the road, and most other cars of that age are in fairly rough condition.

I guess it's all a mater of personal interest.

ds20prefecture

In my experience Irish people (and it's a big generalisation) do not so much like cars as what their car says about them. Otherwise more people would buy the an RX8 instead of a 320ci, or a Fiat Panda instead of a Yaris, or a Citroën C6 instead of a S320. In all of these cases, the "alternatives" are cheaper, better engineered, more interesting and more stylish cars. Nobody is taught to aspire to a Mazda, a Fiat or a Citroën and sadly - like all nouveau riche - we car more about appearing to "have arrived" than enjoying the journey itself.

maidhc

Max_Damage wrote:

Just go over to the States, and cars from the 70's and 80's are still regualrly seen, some even before that.

I spent a while in the states, and I dont know if they are an example of how to mind cars. They cannot park over there (a fact readily admitted by my colleagues there!), and the rear colour coded bumper of any car over 6mths is destroyed!

I dont think the Irish are all that bad at minding cars, but they dont have much pride in what they drive and dont appear to get any pleasure from it. You can get some beautiful cars in the secondhand market if you are in no rush about buying though. Top of the range cars and anything with a decent engine seems to depreciate like hell.

bazz26

I have to agree with the OP.

I was half thinking of trading up my own car. My current car is 3 years old and approaching 80k miles. Was looking at 2005 cars as I am moving house towards the end of the year so don't want to be wasting money on a new car.

Anyway I was going around a few places today (which were closed) just having a look, without being approached by salespeople. Some of the 05 cars I was looking at were in terrible condition, these had alot of scratches, scuffs on the bumpers, alloy wheels and doors and some of the interiors were just shabby. They had a lack of care look all over them. Even though my own car has covered almost 80k miles, while not getting ridiculously overprotective about my car, I do try to look after it, get it serviced on time, careful how/where I park it and wash/polish it regularly. It is in better condition than some of the 2005 cars I was looking at today.

Obviously not all cars are like this but it got me thinking that I might stick with what I have.

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

I was half thinking of trading up my own car. My current car is 3 years old and approaching 80k miles.

80k is nothing!

I am always careful about where I park, but on 2 occasions in the past 5 years i have come back to find a door bent in from some idiot in a 4x4 trying to park (and it was a 4x4 by the paint marks)... and that is without mentioning the time scumbags jumped on my bonnet, and kicked in the wing.

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

80k is nothing!

I am always careful about where I park, but on 2 occasions in the past 5 years i have come back to find a door bent in from some idiot in a 4x4 trying to park (and it was a 4x4 by the paint marks)... and that is without mentioning the time scumbags jumped on my bonnet, and kicked in the wing.

I know that but the average mileage for a 3 year old petrol car is around 40k-50k miles.

I have a small little dent on my front passenger side door alright where some muppet obviously hit it with theirs. Judging by the position of it I would say it was a 4x4 or van. Thankfully though it didn't break the paint so it was better to leave it alone.

RobAMerc

ds20prefecture wrote:

In my experience Irish people (and it's a big generalisation) do not so much like cars as what their car says about them. Otherwise more people would buy the an RX8 instead of a 320ci, or a Fiat Panda instead of a Yaris, or a Citroën C6 instead of a S320. In all of these cases, the "alternatives" are cheaper, better engineered, more interesting and more stylish cars. Nobody is taught to aspire to a Mazda, a Fiat or a Citroën and sadly - like all nouveau riche - we car more about appearing to "have arrived" than enjoying the journey itself.

Ds, my sentiments exactly, unfortunately though buying a panda or C6 while at the time would be considered the 'thinking mans' choice, would result in tears when it came to changing car as your average Irish car dealer would beat you with it like a big stick !

You would have a more involving time owning it though.

Squirrel

RobAMerc wrote:

Ds, my sentiments exactly, unfortunately though buying a panda or C6 while at the time would be considered the 'thinking mans' choice, would result in tears when it came to changing car as your average Irish car dealer would beat you with it like a big stick !

You would have a more involving time owning it though.

That's why you keep it in good condition so it doesn't need to be replaced after 3/4 years