Should we self build?

daveg

I realise this question has been asked a million times but here goes. We have bought our site (paid for ourselves - no mortgage) and have full planning for a 2 story house. My wife's uncle built our house approx 4 years ago - he's a building contractor which we have since sold.

We gave him the plans of the new house which he sent out to a quantity surveyor. The build cost came back at €230K. I nearly fell off the seat. However we were told that the price quoted was for the best of everything. The house is 2300 square foot. However the attic, in the plans, is fully converted with a bathroom (adding another 600 square foot onto the house), which we've been told is adding a lot of expense. We were also quoted for natural stone on the front section of the house which came in at about 15K. We have since found a hallmark stone which will cost about 3K.

Both myself and the wife have very limited knowledge when it comes to building houses but I'm willing to learn. My brother in-law is our architect and has loads of contacts and has said he will make sure the work carried out on site is up to scratch. We also have my wife's uncle who also has lots of contacts and knowledge. Finally a good mate of mine is nearing completion of his self build. All of his contractors (brikkie, electrician, plasterer etc) were superb and he is passing all contacts onto us.

So should we self build the project. Our max budget is 160-180K. Ideally I'd like to have the grounds complete within this price. We can cut back on the attic conversion (maybe just floor the attic) and go for hallmark on the front of the house. With these savings and with cash to the contractors prices I'm hoping we can bring it in on budget.

Should we go ahead? Also is it possible to work out how much the project will cost self build? Can we give the plans out for a price for blocklaying, electrics, plumbing, roofing etc to give an overall idea of cost self build?

Carb

In my area (Norteast), the bank checked out my figures with a very large local contractor. He reckoned around €70 sqm for a contractor and €60 sqm for direct labour. I'm hoping my 3000sqft house will come in around the 180/190k mark. It seems to be pretty much on track. Thats with timberframe, halllmark the whole way around, underfloor heating on both floors, Argon filled windows. So I would expect your's to be pretty achieveable on that budget, although my knowledge of costs in the west of Ireland is non existent.

Based on your access to tradesmen and people with experience, I'd say go for it, espeically if a contractor is going to charge 230k. However one thing you haven't mentioned is whether you have time for the hassle. Have you any idea the amount of bulls**t you'll hear from people, tradesmen who think 3days means 3 weeks, and then expect their money yesterday. Not to mention the time needed for quotes and picking products.

One other point, if you decide to go for hallmark, as long as the cashflow allows and you've got room to store it, buy it all in one go, you don't want to be waiting on Roadstone, when the first delivery run out.

Cushtie

Just to echo what Carb said above, from a purely financial aspect it would make sense to go down the selfbuild route.

however you must take into account the amount of time (will take away longer tha you think), hassle (there is always always something), and stress (have had a few sleepless nights lying awake thinking about it) involved.

if you are really good at project management type scenarios you should be ok. if on the other hand you are like me and THINK you are ok on that side of things it can be an extremely steep learning curve.

Thankfully a family menber is also building and we have been able to bounce loads of stuff off each other.

a user here YOP has done up a blog on his self build odyssey, have a look at that to get a feel for it.

daveg

Thanks for the replies lads. As mentioned a good mate of mine is building in the same location. He's nearly finished. All his lads were excellent from block layers to plumbers. I plan on using all his guy's in the hope that we will have the same level of service. Add to this the fact the wife's brother is an architect and her uncle is a building contractor I'm hoping we will be ok.

As for project management we've just organised our wedding and RTW honeymoon which was a fúcking nightmare so I'm hoping we will be ok. I think my project management and people management skills are good. My concern is that we don't have any great knowlage of building but I'm sure we will learn.

Carb - good to here my thoughts on cost are on target. I can post up the plans if anyone wants to hazard a guess at costs?

karltimber

Hi Davey,
I am currently pricing a 50msq extension and plan to go self build also.

This is very different to your build but you will learn along the way, be wiser in the end and save money. Don't pay a builder to get the trademen you will organise. The time factor is obviously there but so what !!!


There are some very good posters here that have built houses - so spent some time reading them

and look at Yops self build blog.

go for it !!!:D

daveg

I've read yops blog many times. The thing that worries me is that yop seems to be doing quiet a lot of stuff himself. I would not have a clue. Is this the norm for self build? Can you rely solely on the tradesmen or are there certain things you "have to" do yourself?

rooferPete

Hi daveg,

From a contractors point of view (when roofing) the last job we would do was a Self Build unless the self Builder was in the building trade and even then we watched the general management of the job like hawks.

We even introduced the hard fast rule of supply and fit after losing so much time waiting on the proper gauge lead, one Gent arrived with code 3 for a valley because the roll was longer than the code 5 he was told to get

The hardest job is trying to get each trade working together, on another job we walked when the carpenter was taking weeks (not days) to fit the facia and soffit.

If you don't have experience you could find yourself standing in for some of the less technical parts of another mans work to keep the job moving along.

While you can call on helpful advice and experience are you sure that you can call on the skills these people have when you need them ? it is important to remember that Uncle Builder will be busy making a living, your friend will be busy finishing the small details on his own house.

Maybe a retired or semi retired tradesman to keep the job going (for a fee) will save you money, hard to see where you will find 50k in the difference.

.

Carb

rooferPete wrote:

.....hard to see where you will find 50k in the difference..

The house was obviously priced at 100 per sqft, which seems to be a standard figure thrown out by quantity surveyors. I was told my house was going to cost nearly 300k to construct by a quantity surveyor. The bank told me it was going to cost 240k based on their figures. As I said above, I'm closer to the 190k mark. I've also seen houses built locally, that contractors charged close on 200k just for a shell. Based on my figures, there was at least 40k profit built in. One contractor wanted to charge a guy and extra 40k just to put hallmark on the front of his house. It didn't cost near this for my whole house. The fact is, that an awful lot of contractors aren't interested in one off houses. They either want to be on large developments, or building a one off house for resale, which means they price their wourk accordingly. The best example is my cousin who is also buiilding a 3000sqft house. A contractor quoted her 225k, which seems a lot more reasonable. But he admitted that he didn't particularly want to do it as he was buying sites and building houses for resale now.

yop

Thanks for all the references lad, I will take them as a compliement

I think the amount of work we have taken on our selves is a bit more than what most people do from my experience, sometimes I do regret it but it will save us money.

Builderwoman!

Daveg, my advice would be go for it! Yes I'm a woman who undertook our self build as hubby was in the type of job that would not allow for making calls, dropping everything and running to the site for questions, deliveries etc. When we started out building we were living 40 miles away from our site mean we had to juggle a bit and meet tradesmen there for quotes, measuring etc at weekends etc but when we moved up to two mintues away from the site at Christmas when our other house sold it made the job so much easier.

Yes it is stressful. We would all be telling you lies if we said it wasn't. But sure isn't life stressful by times, work, kids, etc etc. Since you have an architect in the family, access to tradesmen etc you are halfway there already. I had no idea on how to build a house but it's standing in fact it's nearly finished, has passed all the engineers visits, is on target (nearly on budget but overruns are thanks to us upgrading and changing from the original plan) and hopefully will be our dream home.

Now I haven't been like Yop working away on the house. But we will be painting it. We have been cleaning up after all the trades since the beginning, tidying up site, filling skips etc. (Believe me NOBODY clears up after themselves, the trades can be a messy and wasteful lot but what can you do??!) So you can do a little bit of that kinda stuff yourself and just project manage the rest. I have found it fine. The trades don't talk to one another, that's your job. Some tradesmen can be very immature in my opinion and don't show initiative but you cope with that. I disagree with Rooferpete it is possible to do a self build and have it work for you. All you have to do is be prepared to listen and learn, think on your feet, communicate, use your initiative and keep control of everything. It's your job to make sure that the trades give you the right order and get everything delivered onsite on time. It's not brain surgery it's time, people and money management. Builders charge you for the juggling, management, cleaning up etc that they do. You can do this yourself and get a much better finish on your house. You can then afford the upgrades. The builder will do standard finishes when you self build you have control to upgrade finishes ets according to your budget as you go along. Very important that you get at least three quotes for everything! Don't even trust your relatives for prices, get lots of quotes shop around. We have saved a bomb by shopping away from Dublin down the country where we are from. Listen, if I did you can! Go for it.

dras

Well DaveG I would perhaps say the opposite to many of the replies so far. I was seriously thinking about self build myself (Galway area).

I got several quotes from contractors to do the whole job and then also got prices for each trade for doing it self build. In the end there was not a lot of difference (<20k). This may have been due to the tradesmen or contractors that I contacted (recommended by friends and family) but I feel that it wasn't worth the hassle in the end.

Even as it is, I need to go out on site quite a lot to deal with plumbers, electricians, go shopping for flooring, tiling, doors, etc, etc. I know you said that you had contacts and know what you are getting yourself into but be certain before you give yourself that sort of stress!

dras

dderd

Hi DaveG, I would say go for it but just expect some stress and headaches along the way and a very steep learning curve. I would be in the same position as you with absolutely no knowledge of building but with family members who have gone through the same process in the last few years that I depend on..... add to that we live over 3 hrs. drive away from where we are building, work full time and have 2 kids under 2 (and also I'm a girl so not of much practical help). Hse. is now at roof level (took us 6 mths to get this far) but everything is going well.
We have got a feel for things now and have got better at asking the right questions. We set up a/c's with a few suppliers and many will just take credit card if its within your limit. All tradesmen we have used come recommended and we have always got at least 3 quotes (more if possible). We have an engineer who I ring with any questions I can think of but I find family better for help. We are moving up in the next month which such make things a lot easier. I also found the selfbuild magazines & shows great for ideas/ info (for the total novice). We've saved a fortune. Best of luck.

tinofapples

daveg ,
Another Dave here in Galway. We've just started out on our self build project in Co.Galway. I'd say go for it , especially with the contacts you have in friends and family. What part of the county are you in ? I too have NO experience of the building trade but I'll muck in where needs be . As builderwomen said , tidying up between trademen and all that , it all makes a difference.

Salmon

Dave,

Sorry for trawling up an old thread! But I was just curious as to whether or not you decided to self-build after? If so how far along are you now and if not what stage is the build at??