Should we suppress the Irish language.. ?

MIN2511

I wish i could speak Irish, after the leaving cert i wante to learn... Dunno what happened, i still want to learn!
How can you have a language and not use it? I am useless, English is the only language i speak

Xavi6

Holy digging up a long dead thread Batman.

Definitely needs to be reformed and kept alive. Personally I'm proud to be able to speak it.

LordSutch

I also voted for the increased funding...

I'd like the Government to completely reform the way Irish is taught in schools, with emphasis being on the spoken word, I also think that Irish should be an 'optional' subject, as I suspect that the forced nature of Irish over the last eight decades has failed miserably, & maybe if the pressure was taken off those Parents & pupils who really wanted to learn Irish, then they would learn it with a smile & enjoy the experience (instead of hating it).

Currently there are too many people who have bad memories of the way Irish was taught/forced into them.

Dudess

I don't think it should be mandatory for the Leaving... but then again I don't think any subject should be mandatory for the Leaving.

I fuppin' hated it in fifth and sixth year.

Wibbs

This thread is like the Irish language. Old, gets dragged up from time to time and ultimately going nowhere fast.... :D

I hate the Irish language, mainly due to the way it was taught to me and also the fact that most of the Irish teachers in my secondary school were just plain evil. I got detained once for not bringing my copy into class.

When I was in primary school in Dublin, Irish was very low down on the teachers' priority list. In 5th class we only did it twice in the whole year! Then I was moved to Kerry where the populace seem obsessed with it and they seemed quite offended that I wasn't nearly fluent by age 12. :rolleyes:

I say, remove the compulsory status. If you want to learn it, by all means do so. But if you don't then why should it matter?

Tar.Aldarion

Sleepy wrote: »

You're right, I don't see a national identity as particularly important. Patriotism to me is the height of ignorance: it's taking pride in something which was no more than a fluke: i.e. the place you were born.

Agreed.
I have no problem with poeple wanting to learn Irish, please do, enjoy yourself. Personally I preferred learning languages I could use. I did well in honours Irish and French but I will never speak Irish, nor do i want to. I would have much preferred to learn german/spanish/russian/italian/japanese/language likely to use instead of it. I don't buy into this, if we don't learn Irish in school we lose our national identity crap.


Begarra, potatoes.

Holsten

Reform the Irish curriculum, boost funding, and encourage Irish.

Yes!

I hated the subject in school... cause the way it was thought, I mean how many years of Irish? 12? And I can't speak a sentence.

xOxSinéadxOx

Mmmm_Lemony wrote: »

I like many others here wish I could speak irish but can't because it was difficult in school to learn. We had a great teacher in primary and I was nearly fluent but when we got to secondary the first three years we had an absolute maniac. If you did your homework he liked you and he was a great teacher if you got on his good side. If you didn't (and I certainly didn't) you struggled. I was eventually moved to pass for the inter and the teacher we had, had no confidence and the class ran riot.

I will definitely be sending my kids to an Irish Speaking School even considering the very high cost. If the government put as much funding into education and in particular the irish language instead of leaky funking tunnels, we would all be speaking irish (the whole nation) and we would be smart enough not to fall for the bull**** tunnel expenses and the crappy road network, and the..... well pretty much everything about this country is fecked because of the idiots that are running the comedy show!!!!



OT - the guy in the film looks like wolverine!

i was definitely fluent in primary school. got to secondary and i gradually got worse and worse. had a ****e teacher and the course is just stupid and boring, nobody's bothered or interested

Ross_Mahon

I don't speak the queens English, I speak me own language.

dlofnep

Can't remember if I commented in this thread.

But I think we should totally revamp the cirriculum so that more focus is put on conversational Irish. It's a waste of time unless we can speak it at the end of the day. Spurting out a couple of cliché phrases after over a decade of study isn't really a bang for your buck.

I'm studying Gaeilge on my own time now after finishing secondary 8 years ago and I find it much more fun than it ever was in school. I meet up with a few people once a week for a few pints for an Irish conversational night and it's a great craic.

tracker-man

I would prefer to see European languages pushed in schools instead of Irish, it would be much more beneficial and realistic IMO. Primary as well as secondary schools I mean

magick

tracker-man wrote: »

I would prefer to see European languages pushed in schools instead of Irish, it would be much more beneficial and realistic IMO. Primary as well as secondary schools I mean

well ur happy to do german/french, and im sure some spainish too in schools,

but for the sake of pushing out a bit of our culture? No thank you

Ace7

Ace7 wrote: »

Lets discuss Welsh language revival. They have had a lot more success there, but nobody really explains why.

I've heard the Welsh wanted to revive it, and thus it has. Well, why do they want to revive it and the Irish don't?

I think it would be great if a lot of people weighed in with their thoughts on this. Thanks.

Put simply, Wales didn't have the same "language shift" that Ireland had in the 19th century.

Welsh declined right up until the 1970-80's then there was a renewed interest in the language, also the decline was much less severe than in Ireland with welsh being the language of choice for 20% of the population (wikki it welsh language history).

Unlike the Irish, the welsh never really disowned their language.

Marcus.Aurelius

The irish language is utter rubbish, irrelevant and a black hole for money in the 21st century.

The way it was taught was fine, look at how well our education system compares with the English one for example. The simple fact is that irish is an utter waste of time and money, imo.

Do away with it and the rest of the rubbish we waste taxpayer's money on and start saving a few lives in our third world hospitals.

unreggd

Im kinda shocked at the poll results

in a good way

fair plé!

Reform is defo needed

The LC paper is basically the same as the english paper, with more stuff, in a language you dont understand!

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam

unreggd

unreggd wrote: »

Im kinda shocked at the poll results

in a good way

fair plé!

Reform is defo needed

The LC paper is basically the same as the english paper, with more stuff, in a language you dont understand!

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam

It's down to the age group of most boardsies, try the same poll with people in their 40-50's and you'll probably get a much more negative figure.

I wasn't educated in Ireland so am unable to comment on the teaching methods used,but have heard many a complaint about it! Irish should be taught like any other modern language;
Starting with basic conversational stuff like "hello, how are you" "Dia dhit, conas ata tu" etc (fada's not working :mad:
leave out the literature until much later and make it optional for those that wiah to study it.

Sponge Bob

We urgently need to learn Polish because all "our" jobs are going there soon .

....Oh Wait !!!! they will all speak english by the time we get there so scratch that !!!

Can we maybe teach our skangers to speak english , that would be such a challenge would it not bud , dedly wha jayzuz dedly buzz wha !!!

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

We urgently need to learn Polish because all "our" jobs are going there soon .

....Oh Wait !!!! they will all speak english by the time we get there so scratch that !!!

You'd be better off learning how to polish, as that's the only type of job that'll be left.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd be better off learning how to polish, as that's the only type of job that'll be left.

Languages are capitalised and you surely meant 'to polish' but seeminy forgot the 'to' . However I forgive you

It always strikes me that the hordes of illiterate skangers swarming about in our urban areas and who cannot speak English (but who grunt their way through a sad approximation of it) are the true measure of our complete failure to educate our population.

The resentment of those who spent over 10 years in an education system and learnt nothing of Irish is but in the ha'penny place compared to that.

Hopefully our Polish friends will find something useful for them to do and I believe that our Polish friends could possibly persuade them to enunciate the English language better than our education system ever could.

That would be a jolly good start , dedly bud bleedin dedly wha !!!

dlofnep

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

The way it was taught was fine, look at how well our education system compares with the English one for example.

Erm, wrong. I think after studying a language for 13 years and being unable to speak it is a clear indication that the way it was thought is not fine.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Languages are capitalised and you surely meant 'to polish' but seeminy forgot the 'to' . However I forgive you

It always strikes me that the hordes of illiterate skangers swarming about in our urban areas and who cannot speak English (but who grunt their way through a sad approximation of it) are the true measure of our complete failure to educate our population.

Céard! I had a to

For many deliberately downgrading their language skills is a skill in itself!
Just look at some of the bebo pages and you'll know wot' i meen! (you try reading or understanding some of it).

If those skangers thort that oirish was kool deyd talk it rit tomoro ya now wat i meen

Pride Fighter

I dont remember ever being taught grammar in Irish. That is just ridiculous. I learned Ancient Greek over the summer for 2 weeks and learned more Greek in 2 weeks than 14 years of Irish.

Firetrap

Overall I'd say leave it be. The only thing I'd change is the way it's taught in schools. They should teach it more like they do with a European language. More conversational skills, less reading of stuffy books and poems. I still get the shudders when I remember the stuff we had to plough our way through - poems about babies being piked to death, Padraig O Conaire's misogynistic Scoithscéalta, the legendary Peig.

While I wouldn't like to see Irish die out, it's not of any use to us really. We speak English as a first language and this is an advantage to us. There are enough Irish language enthusiasts around to keep the language alive. Just don't force it down the necks of the rest of us who would rather speak English.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

dumbyearbook

Simple answer to this is no!! there is no reason to suppress a language...........other than say a good lashing of genocide as the Op has said above.

If you cannot speak the language; its more than likely because you had a bad teacher/no interest which is the reason you probably did poorly in lots of subjects - we don't learn well where we have no interest.

I don't remember my leaving cert theorems either but I dont think we need get rid of them from schools just because of it. You always learn a little form each part of an education just because the language is not all that useful does'nt mean there is no point, consider the national school student who takes to the language really well and goes on to study languages in college maybe they would never have known their aptitude for languages but for Irish.

for me though its just the importance culturally.

I still get the shudders when I remember the stuff we had to plough our way through - poems about babies being piked to death, Padraig O Conaire's misogynistic Scoithscéalta, the legendary Peig.

If that's what most people remember of their Irish language education, then it's no wonder the language is despised by so many.

The primary purpose of any language is to communicate your message to another, learning conversational skills in everyday situations is the best way to learn a "foreign" language (Irish is foreign, as it is not the language the learner was brought up with at home) except for the Gaeltacht.

Jigsaw

Irish language should not be suppressed. It should be promoted and more people should try to learn it and follow the Welsh example. Irish will never again be the first language of this island but it ought to be the second for sure. Forget about the West Brits.

Pride Fighter

Jigsaw wrote: »

Irish language should not be suppressed. It should be promoted and more people should try to learn it and follow the Welsh example. Irish will never again be the first language of this island but it ought to be the second for sure. Forget about the West Brits.

There are a lot of people (call them West Brits) who are shamed to be Irish. I agree they should be ignored, I have a funny story, one of them verbally berated me for wearing a Celtic jersey, I LOLed.
Catalan and Welsh should be the examples we follow to revive our language. Grammar should be taught first and foremost, we never heard of nominative or accusative in school.

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

There are a lot of people (call them West Brits) who are shamed to be Irish. I agree they should be ignored, I have a funny story, one of them verbally berated me for wearing a Celtic jersey, I LOLed.
Catalan and Welsh should be the examples we follow to revive our language. Grammar should be taught first and foremost, we never heard of nominative or accusative in school.

Look also to some of the FSU (former soviet union) there several countries have reinstated their national languages after 70 odd years of Russian suppression.

With Irish, too many Irish, not just west brits think the language is a waste of time (my wife included, she is no west brit!).
I occasionaly hear Irsih spoken, but the speakers sound almost embarrased to be heard! , there is a serious deep psychological issue with the language that needs to be addressed.