Dail attendance

ivan087

I was watching a live stream of a Dail debate:

http://www.irelandlivetelevision.tv/

There were about 5 TDs sitting in the Dail. Anytime I see a debate in the Dail, even PM questions, the attendance seems very low. This is a real shame. Where are our TDs???

Does anyone know where you can get a list of TDs and their attendance?

The_Minister

Every now and then they do a rating in the Irish times to see who was there and who wasn't

constitutionus

Firespinner wrote:

Every now and then they do a rating in the Irish times to see who was there and who wasn't

yeah ive seen that. the worst offenders usually get a grilling on the radio stations. think it covers council meetings as well, i remember royston brady getting a pasting on his attendance record:D

i do have to admit to being annoyed by the attendance of our TDs. they make such a song and dance about democracy and then dont even bother to turn up. i dont care if youve got constituancy work the dails closed for half the year the LEAST they could do is turn up when its sitting. i seem to remember some bill being passed last year and they actually couldnt do it because there wernt enough TDs to form a QUROM (forgive the spelling, its a somewhat nebulous thing to me but apparently it means you have to have at least a certain number of TDs present to give it authority) so the speaker (i cant spell the irish version of his post:) ) went mental and rounded up all the TDs in the bar and cantine to get it passed:D

honnestly when you look at the attendance at the brittish parliment it SHAMES our lot:mad: (and dont get me started on 3 day week bertie or the soft treatement he gets from the "opposition", i mean with all the feck ups of this government its just plain incompentance not to be making hay on their part)

Litcagral

ivan087 wrote:

I was watching a live stream of a Dail debate:

http://www.irelandlivetelevision.tv/

There were about 5 TDs sitting in the Dail. Anytime I see a debate in the Dail, even PM questions, the attendance seems very low. This is a real shame. Where are our TDs???

Does anyone know where you can get a list of TDs and their attendance?

Less TDs in the Dail = more work being done. Just because a TD is absent it dosen't mean s/he's dossing. The media regularly do features on this but that is to appeal to those cretins who link attendance in the chamber with work. All TDs have a live feed from the chamber to their office so they know when a vote is about to take place and can attend then. If the debate was about sheep headage payments for example, why on earth should we expect inner city Dublin TDs to be their wasting time listening to it.

Litcagral

[QUOTE=constitutionus
honnestly when you look at the attendance at the brittish parliment it SHAMES our lot QUOTE]


The House of Commons is usually only full for Prime Ministers Questions at 3.15pm? each day. This is usually lively, controversial and interesting and is the piece which is most likely to be shown on news bulletins. It therefore gives the impression to some that the attendance is like that always. Watch the live transmissions during Northern Ireland Questions and you will see a virtually deserted chamber - acres of green leather everywhere.

constitutionus

at least blair turns up for questions, berties gone by wednseday:rolleyes:

constitutionus

constitutionus wrote:

honnestly when you look at the attendance at the brittish parliment it SHAMES our lot:mad: (and dont get me started on 3 day week bertie or the soft treatement he gets from the "opposition", i mean with all the feck ups of this government its just plain incompentance not to be making hay on their part)

There's not enough seats in the house of commons for all the MP's so it always looks like there's more there than there actually is.

constitutionus

constitutionus wrote:

at least blair turns up for questions, berties gone by wednseday:rolleyes:

True

Bertie spends wednesday through monday in bed.

DadaKopf

TDs are always dropping in and out between committee meetings etc. They turn up when their constituents, lobby groups etc. get them to make statements on certain issues, to get them on public record. It'd be a waste of time for them to be sitting there for hours doing nothing until they get their chance to speak.

ivan087

i take the point about tds not sitting in for debates that dont concern them. but what about these long holidays they get, what is it - 4 months during the summer, a month during christmas. ok its a hard job if they do their job right, but having no dail for nearly 6 months of the year cant be good for the country.

Litcagral

ivan087 wrote:

i take the point about tds not sitting in for debates that dont concern them. but what about these long holidays they get, what is it - 4 months during the summer, a month during christmas. ok its a hard job if they do their job right, but having no dail for nearly 6 months of the year cant be good for the country.

I think you're missing the point ivan087. Most of their work is done when when the Dáil is not sitting. Do you really think that the TDs play golf over Christmas, mid-term or for four or five months during the summer? Don't believe what you read in the papers. They give a one sided view that they hope will appeal to the masses not those who can think for themselves. Just like the constant drivel about ploiticians being overpaid. IMO they are grossly underpaid. I wouldn't do it fo €92k. I'd expect at least €900k. If we paid them more, we might interest some of our top business people, many of whom will earn in one week what a TD earns annually. I can't think of any other job where you are required to work 16 hours per day throughout the year, have no employment rights or stability and are expected to be "interviewed" again every four or five years by people (ie constituents), despite how hard you work, who may just not like the look of you, to continue in that position.

DadaKopf

I think TDs are overpaid, compared to the average public employee. And they're in the enviable position of being able to set their own incomes much easier than most other public servants.

That said, TD's *do* work hard. When they're not bringing their constituents' demands to the Dáil, scheming to win the next election and whatever, many work in other jobs, and this is on top of committee obligations and so on. And that's apart from those appointed to (junior) ministries and the cabinet.

At the same time, the current coalition has worked very hard to reduce real democratic input and responsibilites. Sure, it's important that the Dáil sits more because that's where democracy takes place, but there's more to it, and don't forget we have an executive to actually make decisions for implementation by the civil service. The proceedings of the Dáil have increasingly limited opportunities for real democratic discourse by unfairly allocating time to parties and representatives. So regardless of how many weeks the Dáil sits, when it actually does sit, it's becoming less democratic.

ivan087

Litcagral wrote:

I think you're missing the point ivan087. Most of their work is done when when the Dáil is not sitting. Do you really think that the TDs play golf over Christmas, mid-term or for four or five months during the summer? Don't believe what you read in the papers. They give a one sided view that they hope will appeal to the masses not those who can think for themselves. Just like the constant drivel about ploiticians being overpaid. IMO they are grossly underpaid. I wouldn't do it fo €92k. I'd expect at least €900k. If we paid them more, we might interest some of our top business people, many of whom will earn in one week what a TD earns annually. I can't think of any other job where you are required to work 16 hours per day throughout the year, have no employment rights or stability and are expected to be "interviewed" again every four or five years by people (ie constituents), despite how hard you work, who may just not like the look of you, to continue in that position.

I take your point Litcagral. I know its easy to moan about politicans. And I also know that most of them are hard working honest people. And I know I wouldnt do it!!! But what concerns me is that things happen during the summer - its 4 months - and its not debated during that time. At least the parliament could come back for one week in the middle. Things happen during the summer, and the opposition dosnt get to question the government. that cant be good.

Litcagral

DadaKopf wrote:

And they're in the enviable position of being able to set their own incomes much easier than most other public servants.

scheming to win the next election
QUOTE]



AFAIK their salary is decided by the INDEPENDENT Review Body on Remuneration in the Public Sector. (open to correction on this).


AFAIK :rolleyes: our elections are by secret ballot utilising the PR STV system. (how does one scheme this)

Litcagral

ivan087 wrote:

Things happen during the summer, and the opposition dosnt get to question the government. that cant be good.

I take your point on that ivan087.

constitutionus

Litcagral wrote:

AFAIK their salary is decided by the INDEPENDENT Review Body on Remuneration in the Public Sector. (open to correction on this)

no your right, its done by an independant body of high ranking civil servants. but GUESS who decides what they get paid:D

and i agree with ivan087, when the gov. did the deal with the catholic church over the abuse compensation it was on the last day of the dail at christmas. coincidence? or deliberate snub at their answerability in the dail. i believe the latter , they KNEW they had a whole month to sweep things under the carpet and if a week is a long time in politics a month is an eon. i mean honestly can you remember last months main issue of contension?

Hagar

Litcagral wrote:

Less TDs in the Dail = more work being done. Just because a TD is absent it dosen't mean s/he's dossing.

Does that mean they're working at their other jobs? Farmer, doctors, solicitors etc etc.

Naiviety is an affliction in this country :rolleyes:

Litcagral

Hagar wrote:

Does that mean they're working at their other jobs? Farmer, doctors, solicitors etc etc.

Naiviety is an affliction in this country :rolleyes:

Ignorance is an affliction in this country :rolleyes:


If a TD was dossing it wouldn't really help their cause in the next election. Many TDs have to employ staff to do their work while they hold office. As political life is so insecure, they cannot be expected to terminate their private/business interests for the sake of it. Those TDs who are solicitors, accountants, doctors are quite entitled to and correct to keep their practise going. Being in politics is probably costing them money. A solicitor would AFAIK generally enjoy an income far superior to that of a TD. The term 'farmer' is open to various meanings. It usually described those TDs who are landowners. They may not be actively farming. In any case they will have to employ staff to manage their operations. Are you seriously suggesting that some TDs do the milking/tilling/feeding each morning before going to Leinster House.

Hagar

God bless your innocence.

constitutionus

Litcagral wrote:

Ignorance is an affliction in this country :rolleyes:


If a TD was dossing it wouldn't really help their cause in the next election. Many TDs have to employ staff to do their work while they hold office. As political life is so insecure, they cannot be expected to terminate their private/business interests for the sake of it. Those TDs who are solicitors, accountants, doctors are quite entitled to and correct to keep their practise going. Being in politics is probably costing them money. A solicitor would AFAIK generally enjoy an income far superior to that of a TD. The term 'farmer' is open to various meanings. It usually described those TDs who are landowners. They may not be actively farming. In any case they will have to employ staff to manage their operations. Are you seriously suggesting that some TDs do the milking/tilling/feeding each morning before going to Leinster House.

why would they bother their arse when EVERY sitting TD in the dail now can retire on an indexed linked state pension in execss of 40k a year after this dail disbands they could be the worst rep in the history of the state and they'll STILL get this. not bad for 5yrs dossing:)

The_Minister

DadaKopf wrote:

At the same time, the current coalition has worked very hard to reduce real democratic input and responsibilites.

Abley aided by the opposition

constitutionus

agreed , everything from labour giving bertie an extra day off so hes not confronted in the dail in order to secure question rights to enda kenny preventing us having a presidential election. doesnt exactly smack of "opposition" does it . considering what mary's up to in the middle east maybe he's thinking twice about that one now:D