US: 2X14 - "One Of Them" [**SPOILERS WITHIN**]

stevejazzx

9

basquille wrote:

Nope.. Clancy Brown who you may have seen in Carnivale.

also wasn't he a guard in the shawshank redemption?

Basq

6

stevejazzx wrote:

also wasn't he a guard in the shawshank redemption?

That he was...!

Quite a prominant actor..

Snake Plisken

8

Ah great episode don't know why everyone is dissing it! Sounded like the some major machinery began to move when the clock reached zero so I think it might be a missile silo, also Mr Gale I wonder had he anything to do with Desmond? I know Desmond said the guy he replaced died (I think). Or if you see the island as a scientific project maybe he is a scientist???
Also Great to see Clancy Brown in this episode, his best role for me was as the Kurgen in Highlander! I've a funny feeling he might turn up on the island at some stage.

Cheers

Snake

Talisman

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned in the thread yet.

1 - Joe Inman spoke Arabic. The Americans didn't need an interpreter to interogate/torture the Iraqi officer (Tariq?). "Now you have a new set of skills ..." - interesting.

2 - Ethan strung up Charlie in season 1, that's why Sayid went to Charlie. (And I also think that Charlie knows where the guns are)

Sunn

good points talisman..

thoight it was a good episode...althought it will be fupping ages before we ever find out what that stupid clock does..

for me season 2 has been up and down.. and the large gaps imbetween each episode is highly annoying.. why the hell do we have to wait another week?

mr_angry

7

Talisman wrote:

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned in the thread yet.

1 - Joe Inman spoke Arabic. The Americans didn't need an interpreter to interogate/torture the Iraqi officer (Tariq?). "Now you have a new set of skills ..." - interesting.

2 - Ethan strung up Charlie in season 1, that's why Sayid went to Charlie. (And I also think that Charlie knows where the guns are)

Well, since torture is expressly forbidden under the Geneva convention, it would make sense that the officer couldn't do the torturing himself, or face conviction as a war criminal. Therefore, he had to get Sayid to do it for him.

I think there were some interesting parallels between the Sayid and Sawyer storylines. In the first season, we see both characters leaving behind their previous demons. Once Sayid has tortured Sawyer, he heads off on a journey of pennance. Similarly, Sawyer rejects the chance to kill the boar, and seems to get some good karma in the process. However, in this season, we've seen the characters rejecting the concept "everyone gets a new life on this island". Instead, the characters are gravitating back towards their old lives. Charlie rediscovers heroin, Sawyer goes back to conning people and killing animals, and Sayid returns to torture. The only question is, if they reject what the island has to offer, will the island in turn reject them?

I'm pretty certain that Henry Gayle is an Other. The whole name / balloon thing stinks of being lifted directly from the Wizard of Ozz as a cover. I'm curious to know whether he deliberately allowed himself to be captured by Danielle, or was caught unawares. In 16 years of being on the island, there's little evidence to suggest that she has captured any more of the Others, so the chances of this happenning seem quite slim. If he's there deliberately, and he knows about the survivors' previous experiences with Ethan, then what is his goal?

Talisman

mr_angry wrote:

Well, since torture is expressly forbidden under the Geneva convention, it would make sense that the officer couldn't do the torturing himself, or face conviction as a war criminal. Therefore, he had to get Sayid to do it for him.

My brother-in-law has served in the U.S. army and part of his training prior to the Gulf War involved how to get around the Geneva Conventions - war criminal convictions were never a concern.

Anima

7

2 - Ethan strung up Charlie in season 1, that's why Sayid went to Charlie. (And I also think that Charlie knows where the guns are)

Of course he knows where they are, he put them there . Do you mean Sayid knows where the guns are?

Talisman

Anima wrote:

Of course he knows where they are, he put them there . Do you mean Sayid knows where the guns are?

Charlie watched Locke move the guns, he then told Sawyer where they were and Sawyer took them out of equation in the "Jack vs John Locke" power struggle. I think that Charlie followed Sawyer and knows where the guns and heroin stash are.

I'm just rambling a bit here - but the scene with Sayid and Charlie reminded me of the Jack and Ana Lucia "How long to train an army" scene. The group may get their army but it won't be a disciplined group that Jack was looking to be trained, most likely it will be a guerrilla group led by Sayid and Charlie would be a volunteer.

Rollo Tamasi

6

monomaniac wrote:

- He know's of a sickness on the island - however when he described the symptons from his wife I sensed a red herring straight away - feverous and delierious - there has to be more to it than that. And if not then why have the losties not caught it yet?

you could argue that Charlie is suffering from a kind of sickness. He seemed to be a bit delerious himself about two episodes ago while "caring" for the babie.

Talisman

mr_angry wrote:

I think there were some interesting parallels between the Sayid and Sawyer storylines. In the first season, we see both characters leaving behind their previous demons. Once Sayid has tortured Sawyer, he heads off on a journey of pennance. Similarly, Sawyer rejects the chance to kill the boar, and seems to get some good karma in the process. However, in this season, we've seen the characters rejecting the concept "everyone gets a new life on this island". Instead, the characters are gravitating back towards their old lives. Charlie rediscovers heroin, Sawyer goes back to conning people and killing animals, and Sayid returns to torture. The only question is, if they reject what the island has to offer, will the island in turn reject them?

There's no evidence that Sawyer wasn't an animal lover prior to arriving on the island.

The structure of their society is breaking down - "Live together or die alone", that's what Jack proclaimed in one of the episodes in the first season. He hasn't exactly been practising what he preached. The group are now becoming more savage like and the show is starting to explore the darker side of the characters.

What sets them apart from Zeke and company? And where is Mr Ecko? The sooner he builds a church the better it will be for the group as there will be a new sense of order.

BKtje

8

Dunno if this means anything but im surprised no mention has been made of the "tv film" and what was written on it.

Very little is put into lost without a reason for it at some point.
ie Reel 23108 42
and Propery of DIA.

Anyone know what DIA is?

Must sai i enjoyed the episode. I expected Locke to do the usual last second save and was surprised when it didnt reset at once. It felt almost surreal

lostexpectation

5

so it was ranch dressing michael shot!!!

tvnutz

6

7/10

Good solid episode,mainly because of the Jack/Locke/Sayid stuff.

The Hurley and sawyer scenes were pointless.

I am really hating Jack more and more as each episode goes by,I was really hoping Locke would headbutt him and maybe kick him a few times when he was on the ground.

Henry Gale is an other,has it be! That look he gave Sayid near the end just said it all,and danielle mentioned they were expert liars,Ethan managed to trick everyone as it the plant in the tailsection camp.

Nice crossover having Kate's father in it and Clancy Brown is a brilliant actor so that was just a bonus.

Looking forward to the netx episode!

SandyVN

7

Yea Jack would need to come up with something very good soon. He's just becoming an extra & a moany one at that!!

Im so stupid i didnt notice that was kates da!!! Doh.... see what those week breaks do to you. Very upset with myself!

PullMyFinger!

7

I thought the CGI was great.

And then I watched it again Still, it looked very big budget for a TV show in the Iraq outside scenes.

That aside it was a very solid episode. The John/Locke confrontation was excellent as was Sayid's story, the acting by his commanding officer, the appearance of Clancy Brown and the menacing look on Gale's face before the amoury was closed on him - the directors of Lost have twice this season got an "in-between" look out of 2 actors that would put Pacino to shame. Gale's grin in this episode and the possibly "knowing" look on Locke when they were circled by the Others a few weeks back.

An 8 from me. A minus 23 for the way the makers schedule the breaks between episodes.

Phucking annoying at this stage!

Franky Boy

Anyone notice when Sayid was given the papers before the box.Under his photo it looked like the outline of the Dharma sign.Interesting I thought!

angelofdeath

7

great ep, sayids backstory was cool, and the countdown was an awesome moment, just wish locke hadn't stopped it in time

Sleepy

7

Perhaps Sayid was manipulating Charlie?

Could he know of Charlie's involvement with Sawyer regarding the guns and be trying to put it into Charlie's head to literally hold a gun to Henry's head?

ixoy

I'm with the sizeable minority who was underwhelmed by this all. Another case of "Lost" not revealing anything. And whilst the countdown clock looked interesting, I damn well hope there's some actual effect for letting it go beyond zero, given how often we've heard that it shouldn't be done. A whole "grace period" isn't on.

Naveen Andrews is a decent actor but his backstory, as with most, wasn't all that interesting. I think part of the problem was that (to me) the poor CGI prevented me from seeing the characters in Iraq. Instead it just seemed they were up against a green/blue screen of some sorts. And my flatmate commented on it seperately so it wasn't just myself who found them lacking.
Still Sayid's sureness that he's right was decent enough but I can't feel a bit apathetic towards whatever section the Wizard of Oz is from..

I feel quite like Musician does of late. I can't quite always put my finger on it but I'm nowhere near as gripped by this show as I was previously and nowhere near as optimisitc that it's going to turn out well (in the interesting sense).

PullMyFinger!

7

Is it the helicopter and skyline shots that people are talking about regarding bad CGI? I thought they were quite passable for a TV show, it has a good budget but we have to remember its not a hollywood blockbuster

Didnt notice the Dharma logos under the papers, I'll have to go back and check that.

Does anyone else think the tree frog is a clue too?

Rollo Tamasi

6

PullMyFinger! wrote:

Does anyone else think the tree frog is a clue too?

yeah, its a ninja pirate sent in disguised as a frog to prevent the ring leaders from sleeping by crocking all night long. Saywer assisnated him
maybe they will send in some more frogs?

OFDM

7

B-K-DzR wrote:

Dunno if this means anything but im surprised no mention has been made of the "tv film" and what was written on it.

Very little is put into lost without a reason for it at some point.
ie Reel 23108 42
and Propery of DIA.

Anyone know what DIA is?

Defense Intelligence Agency

Something that no one's picked up on is that Henry Gale said his company mined non-metallic metals. Titanium is such a metal.

Ciaran500

He said his company mined non metallic minerals.

madrab

6

non-metallic metals......umm something not right in that sentance

steveland?

3

TmB wrote:

Another big pricktease from Lost. Surprise surprise.

My thoughts exactly....

In my mind this episode was a 4...

Loved the episode for some of the dialogue and Henry Gale's appearance (I'm still not sure he's an "other" but I'd be verging on that side of the fence) but I'm comfortable docking it a whole 6 marks for the fact that NOTHING other than the heiroglyphics appearing happened when the counter reached 0...

I watched the promo for this episode... First episode I've watched the promo for since the last promo that showed the counter reaching 0, then when we see the episode we see that Locke gets there just in time...

Bad idea...

Anyway... I'm getting a bit sick of being teased by these things and how slowly the storyline is moving but hopefully we'll see some more progression soon seeing as how we've only got 10 or so episodes left this season...

OFDM

7

Ciaran500 wrote:

He said his company mined non metallic minerals.

Wrong. He says "We mined non-metallic metal. I know, everyone wanted to talk to me at cocktail parties!"

When you google non-metallic metal 99% of it is on a painting technique as I stated already - there's bugger all info on non-metallic metal and I can't find a definition of it. Any chemists/geologists out there want to explain what exactly a non-metallic metal is?

ObeyGiant

Could the "DI" in "DIA" stand for Dharma Initiative? That was my first thought.

Rollo Tamasi

6

OFDM wrote:

Any chemists/geologists out there want to explain what exactly a non-metallic metal is?

Google doesn't even know

Derek C.

OFDM wrote:

Wrong. He says "We mined non-metallic metal. I know, everyone wanted to talk to me at cocktail parties!"

When you google non-metallic metal 99% of it is on a painting technique as I stated already - there's bugger all info on non-metallic metal and I can't find a definition of it. Any chemists/geologists out there want to explain what exactly a non-metallic metal is?

Hate to disagree with anyone thinking its metal but he definitely says Non metallic minerals its just that he mummbles it as he turns his head. I've seen this on other forums with people obsessing whether he said metal or mineral but seriously he says minerals. I've watched it a couple of times and never once heard metal. IMHO

Anima

7

He definetly said minerals.

sound_wave

Yeah first time I watched I thought he said "Non-metallic metals" and I said to myself, "wtf? Non-metallic metals" but while watching it again he definatly says "Non-metallic minerals".

I spotted the DIA thing too in the video that was shown to Sayid.
I thought Sayid would really f**k Henry Gale up to get some answers but stupid Jack has to get in the way. God I'm beginning to hate that character.

Smurfpiss

7

Umm... a metal is by definition metallic. you know..thats why they're metals....
It's like saying non-wooden wood. There's no such thing.
And yeah he does say minerals.

Peace

6

Well its pretty obvious that Henry will escape, Sayid dropped the pliers in the room with him and was then dragged out by Jack without recovering them.

Hopefully Henry will really beat fu(k out of Jack as IMO, he really really needs a good kicking these days.

Rollo Tamasi

6

Smurfpiss wrote:

Umm... a metal is by definition metallic. you know..thats why they're metals....
It's like saying non-wooden wood. There's no such thing.
And yeah he does say minerals.

ok, well done. It's a mineral. Hindsight is great.

Melion

Did anybody else notice this because nobody ive asked about it noticed. When Jack is dragging Sayid out of the cell after he kicked the sh1t out of Henry Gale, you can clearly hear Gale shouting "Ill tell you whatever you want to know" or something along them lines.
I dont know if this has been discussed but its interesting all the same.

ObeyGiant

He's saying "I'll tell you whatever you want." Meaning "I'll tell you what you want to hear if you'll stop beating the face off me."

Although I'm a lot more intrigued by the look between Sayid and Henry after Jack drags Sayid off him. Henry is smiling the smile of a man who just won, not of a man who was just saved.

Melion

ObeyGiant wrote:

He's saying "I'll tell you whatever you want." Meaning "I'll tell you what you want to hear if you'll stop beating the face off me."

Although I'm a lot more intrigued by the look between Sayid and Henry after Jack drags Sayid off him. Henry is smiling the smile of a man who just won, not of a man who was just saved.

I dunno, just a bit of a weird thing to say after getting his face mashed in.

ObeyGiant

Not really.. towards the end, he's telling Sayid "Just tell me what you want to hear and I'll say it." It's one of these standard lines from hostage-interrogation scenes in movies/tv

Agamemnon

7

Keeping him prisoner in the hatch is not a smart move. Finding out more about the hatch is probably the reason the Others sent him in the first place.

Having the timer go to zero and then nothing really happening was to be expected. I thought the second season would end with the timer running out and all we would see was a close-up of 000:00. But now I think season 2 will end like this: the timer runs out, the heiroglyphics come to a stop, the machinery starts up, the blast doors come down and Locke wets himself.
Then the credits roll and we're left howling with frustration.

lostexpectation

5

i know what it is, admiral Pressman knows it is an illegal cloaking device he's come to recover from the pegasus

Sauron

8

agamemnon wrote:

Keeping him prisoner in the hatch is not a smart move. Finding out more about the hatch is probably the reason the Others sent him in the first place.

Having the timer go to zero and then nothing really happening was to be expected. I thought the second season would end with the timer running out and all we would see was a close-up of 000:00. But now I think season 2 will end like this: the timer runs out, the heiroglyphics come to a stop, the machinery starts up, the blast doors come down and Locke wets himself.
Then the credits roll and we're left howling with frustration.

argh.. I could see that happening.. perhaps coupled with the return of Walt.. Walt did say the button was bad after all... Here's hoping the finale is a bit more satisfying than that..

Rollo Tamasi

6

lostexpectation wrote:

i know what it is, admiral Pressman knows it is an illegal cloak machine he's come to recover from the pegasus

peter giffin says..............WHAT?

DeadParrot

ObeyGiant wrote:

He's saying "I'll tell you whatever you want." Meaning "I'll tell you what you want to hear if you'll stop beating the face off me."

Although I'm a lot more intrigued by the look between Sayid and Henry after Jack drags Sayid off him. Henry is smiling the smile of a man who just won, not of a man who was just saved.

honestly thought that look was cheesey to the extreme
I mean, what yer man got to gain by smiling at sayid, just at the time he might doubt himself, it smacks of cheap dramatic cliche

Smurfpiss

7

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

ok, well done. It's a mineral. Hindsight is great.

eh...what? I knew it was a mineral to begin with...hindsight was not a factor in this...thanks but i don't need your condescending praise..

doh.ie

8

Willem D wrote:

Check out here for the Maternity Leave Ep 215 spoiler: http://www.lostlinks.net/

Please, no ep titles for future episodes! Often makes it too obvious who it might be about!

penguinbloke

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

lostexpectation wrote:

i know what it is, admiral Pressman knows it is an illegal cloak machine he's come to recover from the pegasus

peter giffin says..............WHAT?

actually I saw that. Pesky Riker ruined it for everybody and got away scott free, Also it was totally out of context with the somewhat related final episode of enterprise...

doh.ie

8

penguinbloke wrote:

actually I saw that. Pesky Riker ruined it for everybody and got away scott free, Also it was totally out of context with the somewhat related final episode of enterprise...

Primarily because Riker appears to have "made up his mind" to talk to Captain Picard in the series finale of Enterprise, yet in 'The Pegasus' does the exact opposite!

doh.ie

8

agamemnon wrote:

Keeping him prisoner in the hatch is not a smart move. Finding out more about the hatch is probably the reason the Others sent him in the first place.

Having the timer go to zero and then nothing really happening was to be expected. I thought the second season would end with the timer running out and all we would see was a close-up of 000:00. But now I think season 2 will end like this: the timer runs out, the heiroglyphics come to a stop, the machinery starts up, the blast doors come down and Locke wets himself.
Then the credits roll and we're left howling with frustration.

I posted something very similar to this a few week back - I'd nearly be willing to bet €1,000 that this is how season two will end! It's exactly like what they writers would do. With season 1, we had the big "What is in the hatch?" mystery and this year it's "What happens when the counter reaches zero?". I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is what we get in about three months' time.

doh.ie

8

I love how I often wind up with exactly the opposite opinion of an episode to some of the regular posters on here, but unlike 2x11 and 2x12 (which I thought were pretty bad), I thought this was a classic - just like a season 1 episode in terms of satisfying flashback and interesting island developments. I'd definitely give it an 8, or even a 9, purely because it was a very satisfying episode of a TV show. In previous weeks (bar Sawyer's and Eko's eps), we'd had pedantic flashback plotting and no sense of the overall island arc. I thought that began to reassert itself with the group politics last time (Sawyer and the guns) and with the wider mysteries this episode (the countdown and Henry Gale.)

Some brief points...

* Rosseau: I thought Danielle was greatly underused - Gale could have just been found in Rosseau's trap by Ana Lucia. There was no reason for Danielle to even be in the episode, bar her warning that "he will tell lies until the very end". I agree with the earlier poster who suggested that in 16 years she has very likely not caught an Other before, so did Mr Gale (if he is an Other) allow himself to get caught. Zeke and Co are certainly not going to just go about their business - the war is on, on both sides.

* The frog: Weak as water, and only saved by Sawyer crusing the creature. I was furious for most of these scenes that after last episode's building Sawyer up as the big villain among the group, they decided to 'soften' him with a buddy trip with Hurley. Though that was the case for several scenes: (eg: "Hurley, wait, wait. Hey, Hurley wait. Look, man, I'm sorry, alright? This frog is killing me. You've got to help me out, please!") Way too much pleading for the guy who supposedly doesn't care whether people like him or not. If he hadn't crushed the frog at the end, it would have made 99% of last week's episode pointless. That he did reinforces his mean streak and pushes him further away from the group. I'm still not sure he needed to be so pleading with Hurley though - they could have used the blackmail over the ranch dressing in a meaner way to force Hurley to help. (I did like his line about the ranch dressing turning up on the 'coconut internet' though.)

* Sayid's flashback: Spotted some of the numbers/108 on the tape, must look again for the Dharma symbol. I am very much coming around to the idea that Dharma have been involved in many of the castaways' lives. It seems that in the future, 'the island'/Dharma would need a torturer. Thanks to the events shown during the Gulf War in this episode, it got one. Just like how Sawyer's life ensured he'd be clever enough to get the guns from the hatch and how Jack's role as leader was shaped by his past.

Liked the scenes with Kate's father/Clancy Brown - nicely done. I wonder what Tariq was going to say to Sayid the next time he saw him... Or did Sayid actually kill him in the process of torturing him?

As flashbacks go, there wasn't a lot to this one, except showing that his torturing skills were formed by American request, not Iraqi (nice touch) - but at least it wasn't as completely pointless as any of the recent Jack or Hurley ones.

* The Other: I'm completely torn by Henry Gale. Like most of you, I loved the final glare (suggesting he is). Jack has swung from condoning torture of Sawyer in 1x08 to forbidding it this time, though I suppose you could argue that he's learned his lesson in relation to that. Gale's story seemed ropey in several places. I agree the truth of his claims can be verified quite easily - if they find a balloon or a recently buried woman, then it's certainly much more likely to be true. What kills me though is why no one asked him a handful of questions like these:

** You say you flew here in a balloon four months ago. What was the last thing you remember happening in the real world? Who is the US president? What was the last film you saw? Remember any showbiz gossip? Anything from international politics? There was a hurricane last year - what was it called? Where did it hit? etc etc. **

The people on Oceanic 815 will remember three months before their flight - they should be able to ask Henry Gale enough questions about America/the real world to establish whether or not the guy actually has been in it any time soon! I'm willing to suspend disbelief on this slightly, but I'd like to see this kind of thing addressed in some way.

(I say willing to suspend because in the Star Trek universe, even on their many trips to the 1990s/2000s, the 'real world' often appeared not as familiar as it should. This was down to legal product placement issues like characters not being able to order a 'Coke' or use real world computers - T'Pol once bizarrely ordered a 'root beer' at a fast food place.) Lost may have something similar stopping too much discussion of the 'real world' (though Charlie has talked about real bands...)

Anyway, I still think the Other could be found out a little easier with a few well placed questions.

* The countdown: I actually got a real shock when it reached 10 seconds and I realised there wasn't enough time to enter the numbers! Locke stupidly appeared to pause for way too many seconds during the "..16 16..."/looking at counter before composing himself and finishing the sequence. I think we've seen the beginning of what will happen, but because the hieroglyphics hadn't completed their run, the 108 countdown was restored. I do think this is going to be how the season will end (we may see the blast doors come down and a flash of light) but it'll be season 3, IMO, before we find out what happens. It's too dramatic an event for this NOT to be how the season will play out.

Have to admit, my heart did begin to beat in the middle of the hieroglyphics sequence because it took me so completely by surprise. As soon as it reset, though, I remember thinking, "Nah, far too much like process for that to actually happen!"

Overall, though, very satisfying. The Other plot was much better than I expected, nicely tied in with Sayid at the end, and the flashback itself was better than average.

Now, alongside 2x01, 2x03, 2x07, 2x10 this year, this one is heading in to the top 5.