Red Cow Roundabout Upgrade is sub-standard

murphaph

Ok,
I'll hold my hands up and admit that prior to today I was under the impression that there would be freeflow movements in all directions with the exception of traffic from the R110 westbound to N7 westbound and M50 northbound; M50 northbound to R110 eastbound, as the Luas crosses all three of these movements at grade. However, I was wrong and there is also to be a signal controlled junction for N7 eastbound to all directions traffic. This poxy set of traffic lights are to be provided to allow the Monastery Road access to the N7. It's a fcukin joke this. The other lights I could live with as they were on approach roads that were already signal controlled and always will be in the case of the M50 northbound to R110 eastbound were relatively unimportant movements. In addition to this set of lights (basically where the existing Monastery Road lights are) there will be signal controls for M50 northbound to N7 westbound at the Luas. I was convinced they'd freeflow that either under or over the Luas, but no, and that's a fairly busy movement.

The Monastery Rd lights are by far the worst aspect here. The N7 will be freeflow from Limerick to here (once they eliminate Newlands Cross or grade separate it) and then it'll all come to a grinding halt here. It's really unnaceptable. Monastery Road should be closed here and traffic diverted to Newland's Cross or preferably a new link road built across from near SIAC to the N7 (CPO required but this is a key part of the national road network, not just a commuter rat run) with a left in left out access onto the N7. N7 westbound traffic from Monastery Road will be able to access the N7 across the proposed Monastery Road overbridge.

As I say, I'm not opposed to signal controls where the impact is minor, but this set seems very shortsighted to me. It prevents freeflow movement from the N7 to the M50 and none of the other primary radial route (with the exception of the N2) junction upgrades will prohibit freeflowing onto or off the M50 (outbound).

The N2 will at least allow traffic to access the M50 northbound in a freeflow manner.

darkman2

The upgraded junction will certainly be better then whats there now. Has actual construction started yet btw

narommy

murphaph wrote:

The Monastery Rd lights are by far the worst aspect here. The N7 will be freeflow from Limerick to here (once they eliminate Newlands Cross or grade separate it) and then it'll all come to a grinding halt here. It's really unnaceptable. Monastery Road should be closed here and traffic diverted to Newland's Cross or preferably a new link road built across from near SIAC to the N7 (CPO required but this is a key part of the national road network, not just a commuter rat run) with a left in left out access onto the N7. N7 westbound traffic from Monastery Road will be able to access the N7 across the proposed Monastery Road overbridge.
.

1 is there a plan to do something about Newlands Cross?????
2 where did you see the spec for the Red Cow Junction?

narommy

I found some plans but I couldn't see if there were light or not but i expect that the OP is right.

As an aside i notice that the upgrade involves 3 lanes for cars, and auxilary lane and a hard Shoulder.

I presume that the auxilary lane will be a Bus Lane

BUt maybe the hard shoulder will become a bus lane in the future and the M50 will be 4 lanes each way. DO i detect foresight??????????????

murphaph

narommy wrote:

1 is there a plan to do something about Newlands Cross?????
2 where did you see the spec for the Red Cow Junction?

1) I haven't seen any but I presume that it will be tackled
2) Here. To get a description of the schemes assesed and the proposals finally settled on, look at Volume One. The individual volumess on each interchange are more focused on the environmantal impact and don't describe traffic movements in detail, so don't bother with them.

You can also click on the illustrations in volume five. The dirty great stop line running across SIX lanes of the N7 eastbound can clearly be seen.:mad:

murphaph

narommy wrote:

I found some plans but I couldn't see if there were light or not but i expect that the OP is right.

As an aside i notice that the upgrade involves 3 lanes for cars, and auxilary lane and a hard Shoulder.

I presume that the auxilary lane will be a Bus Lane

BUt maybe the hard shoulder will become a bus lane in the future and the M50 will be 4 lanes each way. DO i detect foresight??????????????

The M50 will be 3 lanes each way from the M1 to Sandyford. There will be an auxiliary lane between every junction along this stretch also. An auxiliary lane runs the entire distance between junctions so if you want to travel from one junction to the next, you never have to merge onto the three mainline lanes. If you know the M50 between the Red Cow and Ballymount you'll know what I mean. That has an auxialiary lane already.

The auxiliary lane will NOT be a bus lane.

spacetweek

murphaph wrote:

Ok, I'll hold my hands up and admit that prior to today I was under the impression that there would be freeflow movements in all directions with the exception of traffic from the R110 westbound to N7 westbound and M50 northbound; M50 northbound to R110 eastbound, as the Luas crosses all three of these movements at grade. However, I was wrong and there is also to be a signal controlled junction for N7 eastbound to all directions traffic.

Couldn't agree more. The N7, together with the N3, is going to be a f*ck-up even after the upgrade.

(1) Not all turning movements grade-separated
(2) Luas running at-grade across it
(3) Other signal-controlled junctions located far too close.

I guarantee we'll be revisiting this junction in the future.

MT

Yeah, I'm not impressed with a number of the proposed new junctions on the M50. And in this instance I couldn't agree more, Murphaph. While I've been sort of won over to the idea of not having free-flowing junctions in all directions there certainly shouldn't be any lights/at grade crossings between the M50 and the radial routes beyond it. So why has the NRA gone for this folly at what must be one of the Republic's busiest junctions? Given that the M50's partly in the mess it's in due to short-sighted planning concerning the interchanges how could they repeat one of the original failings in the upgrade - another signal controlled bottleneck!

The idea of an at-grade Luas crossing at the M50 northbound/N7 westbound connection is also entirely ridiculous, if I've understood the description correctly. Indeed, what happened to the idea of raising the entire Luas crossing above the junction?

murphaph

MT wrote:

The idea of an at-grade Luas crossing at the M50 northbound/N7 westbound connection is also entirely ridiculous, if I've understood the description correctly. Indeed, what happened to the idea of raising the entire Luas crossing above the junction?

Yes there will be virtually no change to the M50 northbound off-slip at the Red Cow. The Luas will remain on it's current alignment. I have no real problem with this as apart from the M50 northbound slip aspect to it. It's not a big problem otherwise as all other movements the Luas crosses are signal conrolled on their approaches to it anyway on the R110and always will be. The M50 northbound off-slip should at least in the westbound direction onto the N7 should really travel under the Luas as it rounds the corner and preferably the R110 (city) bound traffic from this off slip should also travel under the R110 outbound. If both these movements were freeflowed in this manner then the R110 outbound signal controls protecting M50 northbound to R110 citybound movement could also be removed.

We are definately coming back to this junction in the future. The other primary route radial junctions are ok, even the messy N3 junction will allow freeflow between the M50 and N3 (Navan side) in all directions.