why hijabs

Diablolical

they look ridiculous,why are they forced to wear them

Hobbes

Think you mis-spelt hjab.

I understand that it is your opinion that you think they look rediculous but based on your other posts please don't try to intentionally insult people here.

Thanks.

Diablolical

sorry if i insulted anybody but why do they wear them its a genuine question?

metrovelvet

Hobbes in English its hijab.

Its for Tadkiyah.

Hobbes - perhaps you would like to do the honours of explaining.

You should also be aware that women are forced to wear it only in the presence of men. They are allowed to expose their hair when they are among each other. Except I guess if those women are lesbians.

It supposedly to protect them from sexual harrassment - you know because men are so bad at controlling themselves. :rolleyes:

Hobbes

I'm aware it is Hijab, it was me who fixed the threads title.

I recommend you read the charter. As per your question not all countries enforce the use of the Hijib.

I'll wait for a muslim to respond to the OP question but if you are here to annoy you are on borrowed time.

Suff

Hijab or whatever way you liek to spell it..

it's widely mistaken as an impression or an indication of inferior status of women.

Various Islamic scholars have interpreted the meaning of hijab in different ways:

Although certain general standards are widely accepted, there has been little interest in narrowly prescribing what constitutes modest dress for Muslim men. most mainstream scholars say that men should cover themselves from the navel to the knees, which I agree with.

Most Muslims believe that a man who fails to observe this requirement during salat must perform the prayer again, properly covered, in order for it to be valid. that also goes for the women.

As for women most scholars agree that the basic requirements are that when in the presence of someone of the opposite sex other than a close family member, a woman should cover her body, and walk and dress in a way which does not draw sexual attention to her.

The way I see it, it is used to show the dedication of women towards their faith. maybe used as a symbel of the faith.

many muslims women dont wear the hijab, that does not mean that they are not religious! women can only take the hijab on their own initiative.
not to be forced to wear it.

I'll give my family as an example...
My father is a religious man, my mother did not wear the hijab until 7 years of being married, when she decided it was the right time to wear it she did.

they have to be comfortable with it, thats why tey cant be rushed or forced to wear it. I am against forcing it.

also my sister, she only wore it 2 years ago (23), she surprised all the family, she went out with her freinds to the city mall, returned home with a white hijab. all my family were so stund to see her wearing it. no one said a word for her to take it on.

The culture plays a big part of it also, the MiddleEast had women wearing the Hijab way before Islam introduced it. Jewish and christian Women did were the hijab, however it is seen as looking respectable in the presence of GOD.



The Virgin Mary wore one! so does that make her look rediculous then ???

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

The culture plays a big part of it also, the MiddleEast had women wearing the Hijab way before Islam introduced it. Jewish and christian Women did were the hijab, however it is seen as looking respectable in the presence of GOD.

True, it's been around in one form or other for quite a while. The thing I don't get is why is a woman's hair disrespectful to God when a man's isn't?

Bottle_of_Smoke

On a Muslim pamplet I got from a stall on Grafton street they had a kinda FAQ for people looking for info on Islam

It said that sexual desire should be removed unless marriage was in place(not these exact words) & as women are the prettier sex it makes more sense to take away the attraction there.

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote:

True, it's been around in one form or other for quite a while. The thing I don't get is why is a woman's hair disrespectful to God when a man's isn't?

Archetypally womens hair is potent sexually. Thats why you guys like it long. There are all sorts of culteral signifiers with it. What it triggers when you wear it down or up. How you adorn it or dont. How you cut it. Look at how much time, money and effort women spend on their hair. It is an essential part of their sexuality.

In hot countries covering the head makes practical sense but it has been converted into a different meaning. Ive also read that it is supposed to purify the woman of her sin. Thats why you cant wear perfume on your hijab and it has to be plain and unadorned. So i dont think its disrespectful to god but its too erotic so it needs to be hid.

Think about the dress codes for women that existed in ireland when it was super religious.

Wibbs

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

It said that sexual desire should be removed unless marriage was in place(not these exact words) & as women are the prettier sex it makes more sense to take away the attraction there.

Well that would depend on your viewpoint. I would suggest that 'prettyness' aside, sexual attraction would be, depending on individual, well divided between the sexes. The other point I would make, is why is it encumbent on the women to cover themselves when it's the mens temptation that's at fault? Surely the men should be the ones to exercise their control regardless of temptations. It suggests that men are somehow incapable of such self control. It suggests that we're little more than animals driven by our urges.

Archetypally womens hair is potent sexually.

Ok, let's take that point. If you take the more common non burkha (fully covered) form of Islamic dress, this leaves the face and hands open to view. Is not the face, especially a beautiful one more likely to cause temptation to others than catching sight of the hair? If you were walking behind a woman her hair is probably the last thing you would likely be looking at(l'oreal ads aside). I mean, if you shaved Angelina Jolie or the recent FAS girls head, that would likely not put a man off(tho the latters other 'assets' seem to be the trigger for more lurid imaginings of late ). You could even argue, that the more attractive the woman the greater the need for her to be hidden. Few would in fairness.

While many Muslim women have claimed the veil for themselves it does smack of the control by men of female sexuality. If you look at the customs surrounding the practice, it seems to be solely for women of childbearing/sexually available age. Pre pubescent girls and old women are not required to wear it IIRC. It's only when a woman becomes a sexual being is this item/holy duty/restriction put in place.

The women that have claimed it see it as a way of negating the purely physical view many would have of their gender(especially in the west). No such bad thing too, as I personally would be dubious of much of the sexualisation and objectivication that women face in the modern world. The balance for all cultures seems hard to strike.

From a historical point of view, it seems that veiling was simply a way to distinguish between high born women and slaves/prostitutes in the time of the Prophet and before.

metrovelvet

Well first of all were talking about a religion which doesnt even allow women into the house of worship.

So that tells you a lot to begin with.

You see W - your talking reason and personal responsibility -not applicable here.

But hair is very sexually charged. Its a sign of fertility, even availablity. Etc. Think how people freak out when they lose their hair, men and women.

I think in Sunni you go to hell if you dont wear it.

I want to know if you have to wear it in front of lesbians?

Maybe muslim men dont have any self control. Isnt this what they are telling us?

larryone

metrovelvet wrote:

Well first of all were talking about a religion which doesnt even allow women into the house of worship.

So that tells you a lot to begin with.

Really? Have you actually checked this fact of yours out? I have a funny feeling you didn't.

metrovelvet wrote:

I think in Sunni you go to hell if you dont wear it.

I really think you should check these things out before posting them.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wibbs wrote:

Well that would depend on your viewpoint. I would suggest that 'prettyness' aside, sexual attraction would be, depending on individual, well divided between the sexes. The other point I would make, is why is it encumbent on the women to cover themselves when it's the mens temptation that's at fault? Surely the men should be the ones to exercise their control regardless of temptations. It suggests that men are somehow incapable of such self control. It suggests that we're little more than animals driven by our urges.

Hey man, don't shoot the messenger!

I don't believe this is the real reason it's a rule. Just what I read - so I can't argue any of it's points.

The real reason (in my opinion) is that men don't deal well with jealousy. So it suited them that their wives weren't leered at so much. (Just think of all the Irish, non Islamic men who would just love if their girlfriends had to cover up - "that tops too low, that skirts too short etc etc")

Just by chance a really jealous male could of been in power at a critical time - so he passed a law on it, just so happens a lot of men like this, then religion comes along and you might as well make it Allah's law.

metrovelvet

I did.

I pass en route by a mosque every week and there are never women in it. So I asked one of the guys coming out of the mosque why not and he told me women arent allowed in. Its a srorefront window so I can see through it. All I see are a bunch of mens butts up in the air as they face a wall.

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00003364.aspx

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/whatishijab.html

http://www.sunnah.org/fatwa/Wisdom_for_women/attending_mosque.htm

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=791

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

I did.

I pass en route by a mosque every week and there are never women in it. So I asked one of the guys coming out of the mosque why not and he told me women arent allowed in. Its a srorefront window so I can see through it. All I see are a bunch of mens butts up in the air as they face a wall.

If you checked up further you would know that daily prayers are optional for women, as is Friday service.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/womensrightsbadawi.htm

Wibbs

metrovelvet wrote:

I think in Sunni you go to hell if you dont wear it.

Well AFAIR it's considered a sin not to cover the hair. The get out clause is that god forgives sin so depending on the rest of your behaviour.... That's where interpretation comes in I suppose.

I pass en route by a mosque every week and there are never women in it. So I asked one of the guys coming out of the mosque why not and he told me women arent allowed in.

This is a tad OT, but I'll reply. The guy's wrong. Women are allowed to worship in a mosque. In some cases there is separation of the sexes granted, but as a Muslim they have a duty(familial duties aside) for both daily prayer and mosque attendance.

All I see are a bunch of mens butts up in the air as they face a wall.

Cute image. I personally have huge issues with Islam and many of it's precepts (Shock announcement, not), but I see the difference between the faith and the vast majority of the faithful who are people just trying to get on and I found that line out of order tbh. Maybe I'm gettin sensitive in my old age.

http://www.sunnah.org/fatwa/Wisdom_for_women/attending_mosque.htm

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=791

While the first link suggests that in some islamic countries women are stopped from attending prayer, this would not be the case in Islam itself as a religion. Those two links only serve to dispute your view on women's rights in Islam. In particular their right to worship. If you want to open up a new thread with regard to women's rights in Islam I'll be happy to jump in.

Hobbes wrote:

If you checked up further you would know that daily prayers are optional for women, as is Friday service.

Exactly. As that link pointed out Islam had a more 'equal' attitude to women in many ways. Certainly far better than in Christian and other lands in the past. That said, times change and now the differences between western equality and Islamic equality are more. It's similar to the debate about Islamic science compared to the west in the past. This is a slightly different debate than the hijab one though.