Under 21s win the Madeira Cup

damienom

Surprised this hasn't made an appearence!!

Well done to all concerned.....let's hope Stan gives some of them a shot if he gets this May friendly he's looking for

Kingp35

Yeah congrats al round. Its always nice to see the underage teams doing well.

MrJoeSoap

Great news, good to see some of the eL lads do themselves proud too. Gary Dicker from UCD scored the winner in another game.

Nuttzz

Well done to them, I wonder how many will be in Dons next squad though, remember the english season is in full flight, the EL lads are there because they have no games while the UK based players are there because the are not getting near their clubs first team

mchurl

fair play to them always nice to win a trophy

TwistsAndTurns

Great win, even Given himself said if they won it would be a better achivement then 2 years ago. Well done lads.

Jonny Arson

I'm absolutely delighted for them!

Our u21's have struggled over the past few years but it seems to me since more and more eL players have been selected for the team that they have improved greatly. Well done lads!

KdjaCL

Now all we have to do is win a game in a proper cup not some cake making thing.

Its a disgrace that Givens is still in charge, Kerr should have got rid of him and hopefully Stan will before the Euro qualifiers, 3 wins in something like 5 years and no players coming from U21 to the full side.

kdjac

zAbbo

KdjaC wrote:

Now all we have to do is win a game in a proper cup not some cake making thing.

Its a disgrace that Givens is still in charge, Kerr should have got rid of him and hopefully Stan will before the Euro qualifiers, 3 wins in something like 5 years and no players coming from U21 to the full side.

kdjac

Exactly, Givens is absolutely hopeless, look at every other nations u21 sides, and you can already see 4-5 players that would get into the full international side within a few years.

England have Leighton Baines, Anton Ferdinand, Nigel Reo-Coker, Carlton Cole, Darren Bent, Dean Ashton......

France have Gaël Clichy, Antonio Mavuba, Lassana Diarra and Franck Ribéry.

Who have we got recently?

godtabh

zabbo wrote:

Exactly, Givens is absolutely hopeless, look at every other nations u21 sides, and you can already see 4-5 players that would get into the full international side within a few years.

England have Leighton Baines, Anton Ferdinand, Nigel Reo-Coker, Carlton Cole, Darren Bent, Dean Ashton......

France have Gaël Clichy, Antonio Mavuba, Lassana Diarra and Franck Ribéry.

Who have we got recently?

We have a decenet amount of under 21 players but with the irish team if you show any sign of form your in the senior squad.

The likes of England and France have a very big senior squad with very talent players so the under 21's is the next best thing.

We dont have the same luxury!

KdjaCL

kearnsr wrote:

We dont have the same luxury!

Emmm yes we do, put it simply there are 6 new faces in the next ireland squad, why did only 1 of them play for the u21s? When we the fans have talked about them, how come the u21 manager didnt bother checking up on these players who are now good enough for full team, but last week werent good enough for u21s?

kdjac

Kingp35

KdjaC wrote:

how come the u21 manager didnt bother checking up on these players who are now good enough for full team, but last week werent good enough for u21s?

kdjac

It was a case of club commitments that kept them out of the Madeira cup but I agree with what your getting at. Don Givens should not still be manager, its clear to all he is not up to the task and its time to bring in a fresh face.

zAbbo

u21's serve one purpose, to groom younger players for the full international squad. I'm not saying that they should cap players like Stephen Ireland at u-21 level now, but surely someone who has made the centre midfield spot for a club like Man City *this season* should surely have been playing u-21 last season. A mixture of stupid politics and poor management from Givens.

Most english players come through the ranks with the exception of a few young players, who get pushed straight into the full squad (rooney being one) but all would have played underage internation football at one stage.

How on earth can we compete when we don't even have the basic infrasture to guide younger players into the international setup, this is further evident this week, with Stephen 'sunbed' Carr being coaxed out of retirement, when we already have one of the most promising u21 players(and captain) Stephen Kelly more than adequate to be Steve Finnans understudy.

If Stan has a plan, he best inform Givens of it, or get rid of Givens and give it to someone with a bloody clue - Sean McCafferey would be ideal for u-21

godtabh

KdjaC wrote:

Emmm yes we do, put it simply there are 6 new faces in the next ireland squad, why did only 1 of them play for the u21s? When we the fans have talked about them, how come the u21 manager didnt bother checking up on these players who are now good enough for full team, but last week werent good enough for u21s?

kdjac

Ireland wouldnt play under Kerr or have anything to do with him. Did that extend to not playing for the under 21's?

There good enough now but were they good enough then?

Kavanagh only came into the Irish squad over the last couple of seasons and only got his first taste of the premership now.

Not all players are good enough to player underage international football but as they get older the can deal with the step up better.I'm sure some players would prefer to make it at club first and country second.

There could be a lot of reasons why they didnt play under 21.

speriamo

KdjaC wrote:

Now all we have to do is win a game in a proper cup not some cake making thing.

Its a disgrace that Givens is still in charge, Kerr should have got rid of him and hopefully Stan will before the Euro qualifiers, 3 wins in something like 5 years and no players coming from U21 to the full side.

kdjac

Rubbish. A cup is a cup. Givens' job is to push these players through to the senior side IF they are good enough. How could Kerr have got rid of him ffs? He wasnt his employer.:rolleyes:

Yeah its Given's fault that the players are not good enough:rolleyes:

I'm delighted they won a trophy with half the team EL players.

eirebhoy

speriamo wrote:

Yeah its Given's fault that the players are not good enough:rolleyes:

Players available for the U21s for the last campaign was a keeper that is doing really well at Brighton and now in the senior squad. A right back that was first choice right back at Spurs last season and still very highly rated. A centre half that is currently captaining Leicester. 2 central midfielders that have made a name for themselves in the premiership this season as 2 of the most promising in the league. Another central midfielder that was a regular in Liverpool squads for months. Another central midfielder that has captained Sheffield Wednesday plenty of times this season. A winger that should be tearing most defenses apart at U21 level. Another winger that broke into the Man City first team long ago. A striker that is a big name now since his move to the mighty Reading and a load of other really highly rated players playing in Ireland and abroad.

Ireland should not have finished 2nd last in their group, 10 points behind 3rd placed Israel. Someone like Kerr or even McCafferey would have had this set of players challenging for qualification. It was by far the best set of player a manager had to work with at U21 level that I can remember.

speriamo

eirebhoy wrote:

Players available for the U21s for the last campaign was a keeper that is doing really well at Brighton and now in the senior squad. A right back that was first choice right back at Spurs last season and still very highly rated. A centre half that is currently captaining Leicester. 2 central midfielders that have made a name for themselves in the premiership this season as 2 of the most promising in the league. Another central midfielder that was a regular in Liverpool squads for months. Another central midfielder that has captained Sheffield Wednesday plenty of times this season. A winger that should be tearing most defenses apart at U21 level. Another winger that broke into the Man City first team long ago. A striker that is a big name now since his move to the mighty Reading and a load of other really highly rated players playing in Ireland and abroad.

Ireland should not have finished 2nd last in their group, 10 points behind 3rd placed Israel. Someone like Kerr or even McCafferey would have had this set of players challenging for qualification. It was by far the best set of player a manager had to work with at U21 level that I can remember.

Were these players fit? Injured, suspended? Were their clubs reluctant to release them? its not as simple as saying they were crying out to play for their country especially in Ireland's case.

tetsujin1979

speriamo wrote:

Were these players fit? Injured, suspended? Were their clubs reluctant to release them? its not as simple as saying they were crying out to play for their country especially in Ireland's case.

I think you're missing the point there. eirebhoy listed off the players who played most in the last U-21 qualifiers, and their respective achievements to date. Stephen Ireland was not mentioned because he didn't play for the U-21s at all. On the face of it, the squad should have at least come second behind France, results like drawing with Cyprus should never have happened. Mind you, Kelly should never have played at centre half either but there you go.

Pigman II

Congrats for winning the Mederia cup , not that it really matters

In fairness I don't remember our u21s ever being a force so the idea that were suddenly going to be good because we've got a few names in there seems a bit strange. I don't know whether it's cos they don't care or the build up is just bad but we've stunk at that level for as long as I can remember.

I think Charlton was right to effectively write off the underage system and just concentrate on the seniors. What does a good underage system get you in the longterm? Nothing it seems as is evidenced by the bevy of guys from the U16 and U18 European championship winning teams of 1998 currently populating the senior squad.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

Nothing it seems as is evidenced by the bevy of guys from the U16 and U18 European championship winning teams of 1998 currently populating the senior squad.

I think that's more to do with Kerr working miracles with an average bunch of players.

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

I think that's more to do with Kerr working miracles with an average bunch of players.

There's something you haven't heard said in a long long time about Kerr.

However if that were true and that they were such average players I don't believe that as many of them as did would have made it as pro's and as full internationals. Kerr was definetly effective at that level but I think he was also lucky enough to come along at the time when seeds that were sown during the Charlton years were starting to pay off in the form of a bumper crop of young top class pro footballers.