Metallica

Steoob

hey... i was thinking lately...what happens right if...bare with me... metallicas new album comes out and its actually good and somehow over the past year or so they found something that somehow magically makes them able to write like they used to and all of a sudden they release master of puppets part 2...

i dunno why idecided to post this and theres no real question i'd just like to hear your thoughts on it...

Zapp Brannigan

No matter what they'll get flamed. It's just the way things are nowadays.

Merrick

Slurms wrote:

No matter what they'll get flamed. It's just the way things are nowadays.

Too true. If they want to avoid another St Anger, they'll have to come up with something absolutely FANTASTIC. Now how likely is that to happen..?

OLP

Steoob wrote:

hey... i was thinking lately...what happens right if...bare with me... metallicas new album comes out and its actually good and somehow over the past year or so they found something that somehow magically makes them able to write like they used to and all of a sudden they release master of puppets part 2...

i dunno why idecided to post this and theres no real question i'd just like to hear your thoughts on it...

I don't see how they'd bring Cliff back to life tho, 'casue unless that happens their still fùcked.

Steoob

OLP wrote:

I don't see how they'd bring Cliff back to life tho, 'casue unless that happens their still fùcked.

thats a good point...

Doctor J

I can only speak for myself, but I eagerly await every new Metallica release, just in case it's actually good. I think a lot of old fans like myself hope they've still got it in them but usually get disappointed. The reason is that the first four albums were so good, you've just got to cling to the hope that the people who wrote that music still have it in them to rediscover the lost form, not to repeat what they've done and release MOPII, but just to have that creativity, energy and authenticity which made the first four albums essential and the absense of which has made the last 15 years such a crushing disappointment.

I'll never forget the day, coming home on the bus listening to Load on the walkman for the first time and actually checking the lyrics on the inlay against what I was hearing on the tape to see if it was the wrong tape or something.

In hindsight, I think Newsted leaving was the end of the band, not his actual departure, but that he felt so disillusioned with them as a band that he left one of the most lucrative jobs around. It was the signal that the Metallica of old was dead. He knew it for sure and his work with Voivod is all the ressurance that anyone needs that he still has a love of innovative and creative Metal.

Zapp Brannigan

Doctor J wrote:

I'll never forget the day, coming home on the bus listening to Load on the walkman for the first time and actually checking the lyrics on the inlay against what I was hearing on the tape to see if it was the wrong tape or something.

Thats exactly what I done, except it was Reload for me.

merlinsmerryman

I fully expect it to be more like the first 4 albums then the last few releases judging by what I have read in recent interviews and if the rumour that Bob Rock is un-available there is a lot of hope.

Zapp Brannigan

merlinsmerryman wrote:

I fully expect it to be more like the first 4 albums then the last few releases judging by what I have read in recent interviews and if the rumour that Bob Rock is un-available there is a lot of hope.

Bob Rock will do it, thats prolly why the went on Tpur rather than record a new album. Cos by the time they come off tour Bob will be finished with Motley Crue and free to work with them.

Necronomicon

I'm hoping since Rob Trujillo is actually writing on this one that he will have a positive influence. I'm not sure how much of a difference he'll make to the overall direction that the band take on this one, but I've always liked him.

Doctor J

I've got to say I think Bob Rock is very unfairly blamed for Metallica's downfall/popularity (delete as appropriate). He didn't lead them anywhere they didn't want to go. End of story. As for stanger, that abomination, in my opinion, is the sound of a band who simply ran out of ideas. OK, the sound is woeful, apart from the songs, but they all played a part in it, the documentary proves that album was made by committee if nothing else. The songs were created by cutting and pasting sections of jam sessions together in Pro Tools and that's what you do when you've run out of straws to clutch at.

I actually have a lot of time for the guy. He did some sterling work on The Cult's Sonic Temple and self-titled albums, especially the self titled one (goat on the cover) which was a pretty raw but not gick sounding album long before stanger.

Never forget, Metallica went to him to change their sound, he was not imposed upon them. To be honest, even if Andy Sneap produced the next one I still think the tank is empty and it will suck regardless.

Blisterman

I'm almost definate Metallica's next album will be better than St Anger (not that that's too hard). Considering the circumstances at the time. They were playing great the last 2 times in Dublin.

Patricide

Although i absolutly love metallica, i gotta agree with docor j on this one newsteads departure really says it all.He leaves THE most succesfull band of all time so that he can really be happy with the stuff thats coming out.

I highly doubt the next album could be anything spectacular, something of a half redeeming factor like megadeths the system has failed maby.There creative tanks are truly running on empty all you have to do is look at the lyric sheets for st.Anger to see that, i mean come on Invisible kid anyone?

The thing i hate is when people blame rob trujillo for st. anger because he had nothing to do with its writing, If anyone can help metallica get out of the rut its him.

As for the whole BOB ROCK = DEVIL issue, I Amnt saying he deserves all the blame here but some of the production for st. Anger was really shotty, The Drums for example sound like **** but im not sure if that was him or lars or whatnot, i will say also that he has a tendency to take them in new directions While not allways a bad thing the fans are SCREAMING out for something reminicent of the old style metallica.

I hope to god they release somthing spectacular but untill they do its Master of puppets for me.

senordingdong

Well we can only up that good things really do come to those who wait.

davie_b

I reckon/hope/pray that st. anger (being the poorest offering of the lot that they have released) was just an album they had to get owt of their system!!
and now they can come owt an release an album in the same vein as ride the lightening or heavens forbid kill em all(what an album) and people will forgat the last 10 years of substanderd release's bar S&M

Motley Crue

Doctor J wrote:

I'll never forget the day, coming home on the bus listening to Load on the walkman for the first time and actually checking the lyrics on the inlay against what I was hearing on the tape to see if it was the wrong tape or something.

I can only imagine being a Metallica fan in 1996 and seeing the video for 'Until It Sleeps', just sitting there thinking 'What the ****?'

Doctor J wrote:

In hindsight, I think Newsted leaving was the end of the band, not his actual departure, but that he felt so disillusioned with them as a band that he left one of the most lucrative jobs around. It was the signal that the Metallica of old was dead. He knew it for sure and his work with Voivod is all the ressurance that anyone needs that he still has a love of innovative and creative Metal.

Thats true, yes, but Newsted was also put through an abusive cycle in that band that James even admitted never really stopped...so i think Newstead must have felt so boxed in after so many years he just couldnt take it anymore, regardless of whether he had one of the most lucrative/high profile jobs in the world or not.

Doctor J

Motley Crue wrote:

I can only imagine being a Metallica fan in 1996 and seeing the video for 'Until It Sleeps', just sitting there thinking 'What the ****?'

The video wasn't too bad, I thought maybe they'd been hanging out with Smashing Pumpkins or something... It was really just hearing Ain't My Bitch for the first time and reading the inlay thinking "What the hell has happened here?" :v:

phantom_lord

Steoob wrote:

hey... i was thinking lately...what happens right if...bare with me... metallicas new album comes out and its actually good and somehow over the past year or so they found something that somehow magically makes them able to write like they used to and all of a sudden they release master of puppets part 2...

I would have taken it as a positive sign that they've gone back to playing loads of old stuff on tour, and since they were doing loads of jamming and recording the new stuff should be in a similar vein...hopefully...

Anyway if the 'break out of studio tour' or whatever it's called is like the last one we should hear a song or two from the new album.

Steoob

what ive always wanted to know is....do metallica know that their true fans hate them now? do they enjoy the fake success that their getting?

i myself haven't been to a metallica gig but do the crowd go crazy when they play songs off new albums? (by crazy i mean good crazy)... becuase i have yet to actually see a person who likes their new albums (except of course for the groups of 12 year old girls that go around wearing st. anger t-shirts...)

lodgepole

How is the success fake?

I don't know what people are talking about in regards Metallica gigs going downhill since St. Anger. I can understand people who don't like those particular songs disliking those songs being played, but they band are as good live today as they've been at any point in the last decade. I can't comment on gigs before that as I first saw them in 1996.

Personally I thought St. Anger had it's moments. I don't spin it often and I rarely play it all the way through but it's not the worst. I should add that i'm not a twelve year old girl.

Steoob

i think its fake because they sold out... maybe fake was harsh but they are playing their new music to make money IMO

Blisterman

What's wrong with that? Most bands want to make money.

Doctor J

Ha ha I will say one thing for Metallica, people don't sit on the fence. Perhaps I should just sticky a Metallica thread because they get the most contrasting arguements, whether it's old farts like me who remember the (good) old days or young un's who dig the post 1990 Metallica, there is always an opinion to be heard

paulmartin

Doctor J wrote:

Ha ha I will say one thing for Metallica, people don't sit on the fence. Perhaps I should just sticky a Metallica thread because they get the most contrasting arguements, whether it's old farts like me who remember the (good) old days or young un's who dig the post 1990 Metallica, there is always an opinion to be heard

Well as a young fan I certainly prefer the older stuff, particularly Master Of Puppets. But I think younger fans while not liking the newer stuff as much, still like it more than the older fans. A lot of people (well me anyway) got into Metallica because of Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters, and then went back to the older stuff. I don't know why older fans have such a problem with the Black Album though. There is a lot of filler, but so do all the early Metallica albums (accept MOP). Sandman, NEM, and the Unforgiven are all classics. I certainly don't see it as a sell-out album. Those songs wouldn't have worked as well with the older method. Imagine Sandman with a million other riffs and Nothing Else Matters with a heavy chorus as they had done with ballads before that - it wouldn't have worked.

Personally I prefer Black Album to ...AJFA, which is too extreme. AJFA was like everything early Metallica were about done to the most extreme, whether or not it worked musically, and that ruined some songs. In the first three albums they only put as much riffs in a song as sounded good, whearas AJFA it was like lets puts as many riffs and parts into a song as humanly possible. Black Album was the opposite and it worked for the songs they were writing at that time.

Having said all that, if I could choose to see Metallica live during any period it would have been with Cliff Burton after Master Of Puppets album. I downloaded his last concert in Stockholm and was amazing.

Admittedly Load sessions were mostly poor with the exeption of a few songs and Stanger is crap. I don't think an album full of 7 and 8 minute songs could ever be considered commerical or mainstream sellout, it's just ****.

I think what will dictate whether the next album is a success is the quality of the songs. Not the production or what drums Lars uses or anything, just whether or not they are inspired. I doubt it, though. All we can hope for is a few Kirk solos as they're always good.

merlinsmerryman

Doctor J wrote:

Never forget, Metallica went to him to change their sound, he was not imposed upon them. To be honest, even if Andy Sneap produced the next one I still think the tank is empty and it will suck regardless.

He imposed himself on them, well challenged them. Told them that they weren't capturing the sound and atmosphere they captured live on a record. Clever on his part really.

Doctor J

Not particularily. It's a producer's job to get the very best out of a band, both performance wise and sonically, to work on arrangements and to make the music as good as it can be (sometimes with a commercial flavour). A producer should introduce avenues a band might not think of, a sort of creative consultant. Rock had them do a lot of things which never ended up in the final mixes, wanted Holier Than Thou to be the first single, he tried lots of things they resisted. Don't forget, they had attempted to use Mike Clink (without success) when starting to record AJFA and reverted to using Flemming Rasmussen. As I recall, they were impressed with the big sound of The Cult's Sonic Temple album and sought Bob Rock out. If they weren't happy with what Bob Rock was doing they would have fired him, as they did with Mike Clink beforehand. I think they were trying to be a little more open minded after the AJFA era though. They had become rather popular, made their first music video, been somewhat accepted into the mainstream and were looking to change their ways. Rock was a part of that process but was not the instigator or... ahem... a master of puppets :v:

tbh

Steoob wrote:

what ive always wanted to know is....do metallica know that their true fans hate them now? do they enjoy the fake success that their getting?

I'm not having a go, steoob, but the true fans don't hate them now. The people you are talking about are fans of the pre-justice Metallica, but not fans of the "new" metallica. Obviously if you hate them, you're not a fan anymore. Which is cool and all. The point is, they make music based on whats going on in their lives at the time. As they've gotten older, they obviously mellow, and priorities change - for james, that looks like he's more involved with his personal demons than whats going on in the outside world. Obviously, as bands progress, they evolve and want to try out new things and new directions. I havn't been mad about anything since justice, but I at least you can't accuse them of churning out the same stuff over and over, which I admit I may have preferred. its what AC/DC do, and they kick ass. Metallica do what the feel the need to do, if you don't like it, you don't have to. I for one hope they release MOPII, but I'd doubt they will, because thats not where they are right now. St. Anger was a 'difficult' album alright, but I think its a step (back) in the right direction.

steoob wrote:

i myself haven't been to a metallica gig but do the crowd go crazy when they play songs off new albums? (by crazy i mean good crazy)...

Depends on the song really. They generally go mad for all the songs except "Nothing else matters". Go an see them, by the way - everyone should see them once. I'd be interested in your opinion after seeing them, I've seen them loads and its always been a brilliant show.

steoob wrote:

becuase i have yet to actually see a person who likes their new albums (except of course for the groups of 12 year old girls that go around wearing st. anger t-shirts...)

no fair to judge a band on the fact that 12-year old girls are wearing their t-shirts

I do see your point, but I guess if you don't like the music, you don't have to buy it, and I think thats what most people do rather than actively hateing them. I don't really understand that reaction - its musical snobbery if you ask me. You may not like it, but at least they are out there doing it

tbh

Sofaspud

paulmartin wrote:

I don't think an album full of 7 and 8 minute songs could ever be considered commerical or mainstream sellout, it's just ****.

Sure, the songs were 7 or 8 minutes long in theory, but they were actually 2 minute long songs, repeated 3 or 4 times to make them seem longer, with a heavy bit for the last 30 seconds. That's what annoys me most about Stanger. One verse, one chorus, six thousand repetitions.

It wasn't me!

Doctor J wrote:

was not the instigator or... ahem... a master of puppets :v:

...Doc, I actually groaned... Personally, while Master of Puppets was the definitive album, I'd much rather hear the rawness of Ride the Lightning of Kill 'Em All back again, with all the speed and power that entailed. My history in Metallica is that, for about a year, I heard all the new crap floating around, stuff from the Black Album onwards. After this I was just "bleh" about them. Saw nothing of teh specialness everyone seemed to see, and couldn't have been arsed getting any of their stuff. Then someone got me Master of Puppets, trying to educate me I suppose. Well, threw it on, and I'm not sure what i expected, but that album stuck with me. I'd play it about three times a day. Battery just blew me out of the ****ing water. It's one of the most creative and unique albums I've ever heard, to this day. From the speed and energy of Battery to the passion of Orion. It's magnificent. And yet I can't help but love the energy and power of the previous two even more, though they lack the grandeur and compositional detail. That's my story anyway. Three great albums (After several years, the jury's still out on ...AJFA), followed by a somewhat questionable progression into crap. Still, if there's a light at the end of the Metallica tunnel, I'll go nuts once more about them Perhaps the fumes left in their tank will give us one last blast of the band they really are.

LundiMardi

this is a good read, keep it coming people, it's nice to read over peoples opinions without reading stupid comments/remarks.

Personally, i'll be getting the new album and i look forward to it. I'd prefer not to hear a MOPII, but i do like their load days, but who knows what it's gonna be like..

Does anyone have any links to reviews etc?

Agent_X

...talk about sellouts. They are trying 2 hard to go with the trend. U don't hear them blasting out any classics anymore.