Sinn Fein Ard Fheis rantfest

constitutionus

Cork wrote:

Point taken.

Irish MP or member of the British House of Commons.

just out of interest. would that make devalera a british taoseach when he ran for the dail in belfast

murphaph

Gaussian wrote:

That is interesting will it operate something along the lines of what I suggested in my post.

I believe so. There are already a couple of those doctors co-ops on the southside but none at all on the northside for some reason.

Gaussian wrote:

While I agree that we are catching up on a lack of investment for years it begs the question as to why the government were giving people who already have money more money in the SSIAs rather than spend that money on primary care centres for example
How much further down the road would we be if that Billion a year had been spent on this and on Public transport for example

A fair point, but at the time inflation was rampant and this was seen as a way to stop people spending money. A good way of doing that? Probably not and yes, you will claim that the poor are subsiding the rich and they are to an extent, but it is a rare example where middle earners can get something for nothing from the government, and most of the country are middle earners and so I have no doubt that the SSIA feel good factor will help FF come next election.

Cork

constitutionus wrote:

just out of interest. would that make devalera a british taoseach when he ran for the dail in belfast

De Valera was an American.

But every one born on the island is entitled to Irish citizenship.

They continue to endorse violence and terrorism, they continue to indulge in criminality and espionage, and they continue to refuse to co-operate with murder investigations. This is even before people evaluate their pathetic policies, and already theyre unsuitable for any public office whatsoever. Even if they were advocating free trade, low tax liberalism Id still never vote for them because of the nature of the organisation. How can you have serious criminals becoming Ministers for Justice, or running the economy whilst also running a black market in smuggling and money laundering?

Sand - hits the nail on the head here. SF needs to clean up its act.

The Media, McDowell, Bertie, DUP, IMC, PSNI,Blair etc are all to blame. But SF/IRA are never to blame.

Spin Fein have done little to stop criminality. But if anybody knows differant - let me know.

What annoys me most about SF is their atitude to life. Incidents like the post office raid in Adare, Joe Rafferty and Robert McCartney have turned me off SF.

I actually once voted for SF. I come from a very republican family. But I feel criminality and taking of life has nothing to do with true republicanism.

Apart from that - I have very little to say on this subject.

Gaussian

Cork wrote:

Provo criminality is more recent.

BRITISH MPs, such as Adams seem to be clueless.

What is Adams doing about IRA criminality?

What about fuel rackets, illegal dumping, Joe Rafferty?

The Shinners don't seem to be addressing such issues.

Let them welcome back the Columbia 3 and call for the early release of Garda killers - this is SF.

Well in this society we leave the policing of criminality to the Gardai

If criminality is ongoing as you suggest then it is up to the Gardai to investigate and arrest and charge anyone involved it is then up to the courts to decide on guilt or innocence.

A Dub in Glasgo

Stick around a bit longer and you will find that the above process is meaningless to some. An article in a tabloid newpaper will suffice for proof.

Zombrex

Gaussian wrote:

Well in this society we leave the policing of criminality to the Gardai

If criminality is ongoing as you suggest then it is up to the Gardai to investigate and arrest and charge anyone involved it is then up to the courts to decide on guilt or innocence.

And it is also up to Sinn Fein as a (supposeably) a democractic political party, to distance themselves as much as humanly possible from any form of criminality.

They don't do this, they don't even attempt to do this, which is a very worrying sign.

constitutionus

Cork wrote:

But every one born on the island is entitled to Irish citizenship.

not anymore , thank you micheal mac "if i had done my job we wouldnt be in this situation " dowell

Gaussian

Wicknight wrote:

And it is also up to Sinn Fein as a (supposeably) a democractic political party, to distance themselves as much as humanly possible from any form of criminality.

They don't do this, they don't even attempt to do this, which is a very worrying sign.

As far as I know Sinn Fein do not support criminal activity I have yet to hear any of them saying that they support criminality.


Perhaps you could give an example of where SF have aligned themselves to criminal activity or where they have not distanced themselves from it just so we are clear as to what we are talking about

Cork

Gaussian wrote:

As far as I know Sinn Fein do not support criminal activity I have yet to hear any of them saying that they support criminality.

Shinner westminister allownces were withdrawn for good reason.

Zombrex

Gaussian wrote:

As far as I know Sinn Fein do not support criminal activity I have yet to hear any of them saying that they support criminality.

You can support criminality without saying you support it. The Mafia in Italy and America never said they supported criminality either.

Gaussian wrote:

Perhaps you could give an example of where SF have aligned themselves to criminal activity or where they have not distanced themselves from it just so we are clear as to what we are talking about

Ok, of the top of my head, the most recent example would be Toireasa Ferris failing to condemn the shooting of Jerry McCabe. To me that would be a no brainer, IRA rob a post office and shoot dead a Garda. Whats not to condemn?

The you have Robert McCarthy and the Northen Bank robbery. All this in the last 2 years.

ISAW

Wicknight wrote:

...
of f the top of my head, the most recent example would be Toireasa Ferris failing to condemn the shooting of Jerry McCabe. To me that would be a no brainer, IRA rob a post office and shoot dead a Garda. Whats not to condemn?

You would be wrong about that! I believe Gerry Adams originally condemned the killing but subsequently found out the IRA did it. He then changed his mind. He doesn't involve himself in the "politics of condemnation" or some such newspeak nowadays.

Zombrex

ISAW wrote:

You would be wrong about that! I believe Gerry Adams originally condemned the killing but subsequently found out the IRA did it. He then changed his mind. He doesn't involve himself in the "politics of condemnation" or some such newspeak nowadays.

I stand corrected

St_Crispin

Wicknight wrote:

You can support criminality without saying you support it. The Mafia in Italy and America never said they supported criminality either.



Ok, of the top of my head, the most recent example would be Toireasa Ferris failing to condemn the shooting of Jerry McCabe. To me that would be a no brainer, IRA rob a post office and shoot dead a Garda. Whats not to condemn?

The you have Robert McCarthy and the Northen Bank robbery. All this in the last 2 years.

To be fair with the ferris woman, she said last night she didn't support the killing of Jerry McCabe. But she wouldn't condemn criminality in general. (I don't think that's any good. But I just wanted to set the matter straight)

But what would you expect from a woman who's dad was implicated in arms running and drug smuggling for the ra.

St_Crispin

Just to make sure, she is martin ferris's daughter isn't she?

constitutionus

St_Crispin wrote:

To be fair with the ferris woman, she said last night she didn't support the killing of Jerry McCabe. But she wouldn't condemn criminality in general. (I don't think that's any good. But I just wanted to set the matter straight)

But what would you expect from a woman who's dad was implicated in arms running and drug smuggling for the ra.

she's a haughey?

ghostdancer

St_Crispin wrote:

But what would you expect from a woman who's dad was implicated in arms running and drug smuggling for the ra.

martin ferris has never been implicated or arrested for drug smuggling actually.

Cork wrote:

Shinner westminister allownces were withdrawn for good reason.

yes, and reinstated since, as there was no evidence whatsoever which backed up the reasons given for their withdrawl.

Cork

ghostdancer wrote:

yes, and reinstated since, as there was no evidence whatsoever which backed up the reasons given for their withdrawl.

Good reasons were given.

Did the shinners not put on a court challange?

ghostdancer

Cork wrote:

Good reasons were given.

Did the shinners not put on a court challange?

good reasons in your view perhaps. idle specualation without any facts presented to the public to those without an axe to grind. doesn't change the fact that they were reinstated as there was no evidence which suggested that they were right to.

i don't know if they did or not. not to the best of my knowledge. either way there clearly wasn't enough, if any, evidence to support the reasons for withdrawing in the first place.

democrates

Possible Scenario:
The paramilitaries view seems to be that they were at war, so that meant anything done in a war situation, they could do. The death of innocents at their hands would be seen as, in American parlance, collateral damage, and not to be condemned as it was part of the war effort.
Their actions were simply criminal to those of us who have perceived ourselves to be living in peacetime, and even if the war argument were accpted, the geneva convention was not always respected.

As part of that it seems they had an interesting take on how to handle the drugs and general crime issue. On the one hand kneecappings, the rumours were that they were keeping drugs out of local communities. Others say elements of the paramilitaries got involved in the operation of the drugs business which was going to operate there one way or another, ostensibly to co-opt the funds for their war rather than watch the ascendance of ordinary decent criminals in their midst.

The disarmament of the IRA would now present questions for drugland. Now any scuzz can rise to be a druglord and take all that money, except when the IRA laid down it's arms and most retired, maybe some left and continued what was their war effort as normal crime gangs.

For me this view fits well with what we do know. Thoughts?