Help with graphics card

tvnutz

Ok,I know there are already a few threads asking similar questions but I need someone to also comment on my current card and the post might have a better chance of being seen if create a new thread. Now,I am a complete noob when it comes to this kind of stuff. Looking at those other threads was actually giving me a headache. People keep mentioning all these numbers like 9800Xt,Fx5200 etc etc and my mind is melting!

I bought a new PC in January and planned to spend a few hundred euro on a graphics card later. My current card is:

Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family.

I know sh!t all about this,but I presume it is crap since I am having trouble playing some newer games,and I also want to buy Call of Duty 2,which I don't think will play on it!

So basically I need help! I want a good card that will play today's games well. In other words,a good one thats costs a few hundred euro,not an amazing one over a grand that I can't afford!

I am reading stuff about Nvidia and ATI,which is better?
Any suggestions on what card I should go for? Please!

The rest of my system specs are as follows.

Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Processor Speed: 2.92 GHz
Memory (RAM): 1024 MB
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition

Thanks

Judt

Yeah, what you have is integeated Intel stuff. Grand if you're not gaming, not so if you are.

I take it your machine is PCI Express? It should be if it was purchased recently.

What's your exact budget?

Basically the numbers denote generations of cards. For example the current ATI top of the range is the x1900, with the GeForce 7800 being Nvidia's On top of that you are quite correct that it can get confusing with talk of XTX, GS and suchlike on the end of these numbers.

Asking which is better, ATI or Nvidia, is inviting a fan boy war. Basically, it depends on the particular card at the moment - Nvidia released the GeForce 7800 which trounced the ATI cards, then ATI released their next card and took the top spot... I don't like to wade into such debates, and tend to take each card on its own merits.

Tell us your budget and we can give some advice, as card prices range from 50 to 600 squid.

tvnutz

Ah,so my card sucks ass then? lol

Thought so. And yes I want gaming,its all I really do on the pc besides go on the net.

Again,me being a noob I have no idea what PCI Express is,but I bought it at the end of January off dell,so its fairly new!

Budget wise,I'm thinking 400-500 euro. Would that get me a good one?

Don't want to create fan boy wars lol I have heard Nvidia are good,havn't heard much from ATI,then again I am a complete noob when it comes to pc technical...stuff...

Judt

Right, 4 to 500 is a good budget. You could go into GeForce 7800/x1800 (perhaps 1900, depending on where you shop) high-end territory.

One thing to note is check where you put in the cards to ensure that there will be enough physical space - depending on the inside of your computer it may not have room for some of the bigger cards.

Looking for exact models and prices is your own problem I'm afraid But show us what you turn up. I'd look out at the ATI x1900XT range, the x1800XT in that camp.

In the Nvidia camp, look at the GeForce 7800GT, perhaps GTX (might be pricey). Always search for reviews of the exact model, as they can change from vendor to vendor. Post a few links here and we'll tell you what we think as well.

tvnutz

Alright,thanks for the help!

tvnutz

What do you make of this one?

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315784

Seems like a reasonable price.

or this one...

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=313573

Judt

I'd say the XFX, if only because I know them better than POV. See if you can't find any reviews of the two online.

8T8

The only major difference between the POV and XFX part is that the XFX part is overclocked out of the box by default they bump the core and memory by 50Mhz 450Mhz/1050Mhz vs the 400Mhz/1000Mhz on the POV card which is why the charge a bit more, XFX throw a bit more into the bundle as well if I'm not mistaken. With the XFX part it will be a small bit faster in games than the POV part but the POV part is cheaper so take your pick.

tvnutz

Here is a review on the XFX one.

http://www.futurelooks.com//?m=show&id=259&page=1

Annoying layout in that you have to go through 9 pages of the damn review,but the conclusion is:

While benchmarks are very much snapshots in time, we think the tests we put XFX's 7800GT through thoroughly taxed it while finding some sweetspots of performance that users of varying (Athlon 64) CPU speeds may find interesting. As a video card that is quite near the top of the line, an end-user should expect some good performance when in-game settings are maxed out (anisotropic filtering set to 16xAF too!).

Ultimately, the XFX 7800GT performs fairly well with maximum settings in the games we looked at specifically today. At the highest resolution available to us, it still manages to put up a fight while still maintaining the highest graphics settings. We think that is pretty awesome.

Ease of Use: 9.0

Performance: 9.0

Features 8.0

Value: 9.0

Sounds alright for that price,it does mention it is quite big though. I don't want to buy something and have it not fit,I also dare not try open my pc as it is a 100% guarantee Id destroy the whole thing. So how would I know if it will fit...

Judt

Well how do you think you're going to get the card in then? That will involve opening and jostling

Just open the case, look for the PCI express slots on the motherboard and make sure there's nothing else where the card should occupy within the case. If you don't feel confident doing this, or installing the card for that matter, find a more technically minded friend to take a look.

tvnutz

lol I had no plans to get the card in myself! A friend of mine does know a lot about this stuff so Ill ask him to have a look at some stage.

The thing is I don't know exactly how big the card will be,it doesn't give specs on that site.

Anyway,cheers for the advice,Ill definately be getting someone else to install it as Id be afraid to even open the thing in case Id bollocks it up :rolleyes:

Judt

tvnutz wrote:

lol I had no plans to get the card in myself! A friend of mine does know a lot about this stuff so Ill ask him to have a look at some stage.

The thing is I don't know exactly how big the card will be,it doesn't give specs on that site.

Anyway,cheers for the advice,Ill definately be getting someone else to install it as Id be afraid to even open the thing in case Id bollocks it up :rolleyes:

Heh, no worries eh?

tvnutz

Here's hoping!

tvnutz

Just another question for ye

You mentioned PCI Express,how do I find out of my PC has it? Are there some settings or a window or something I can bring up to check? Or will I have to get someone to open the pc up and check?

8T8

Opening it up is the sure fire way but another is by knowing the make and brand of the motherboard as PCI-Express is limited to certain chip-sets for example you mention your motherboard in your first post is a 915/910 series motherboard which is PCI-Express enabled though it can complicate matters as some manufacturers can forgo PCI-E and just stick with the old PCI as a design decision.

Anyway download the demo of Everest and after installing and running it under the computer section click on summary under the motherboard title you will see motherboard name and in that field you will see the number of expansion slots present and of what type for example my Epox nForce 4 motherboard have one PCI-E x1 slot and two PCI-E 16x slots.

tvnutz

Ok,Thanks. Ill get someone to open it up to make sure.

But this Everest thing.

I click Computer/Summary then I get a list of things. Where exactly do I find how many expansion slots there are? CLick on motherboard name? Because it just gives different properties there,nothing else.

8T8

See screenshot for the location of the information.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~rock2002/temp/everest.png

tvnutz

Crap,its says nothing after mine. Just the name of it.

8T8

You'll just have to open it I'm afraid its not hard to spot the PCI-E slots take a look at this screenshot for comparison.

tvnutz

Ok,thanks for the help mate,Ill get someone to open it for me,I won't risk doing it myself

Skatedude

since its a dell, i'm pretty sure you are going to have major problems upgrading your graphics card, a lot of dell pcs dont even include a graphics card slot

I know a few people who wanted to upgrade so they opened their pc and there wasnt even an agp slot, never mind a pci express slot.

most of their basic pc's have a few old pci slots and thats it, thats the main reason you can seem to get a resonable spec pc so cheap.\
There will be a model number somewhere on the pc, possibly on a sticker on the case with the window xp cd key, and a 5 or 6 digit model number, get back to us with that and we can tell you for sure what you can upgrade to.

Genghiz Cohen

if i may, i have a dell d600 latitude laptop, its good spec except for the graphics, 32MB *Cries*. it has 1 free slot in the side, im not sure if its pci/Express,. my question is as follows: can i upgrade my graphics?

Baud

i have a dell d600 latitude laptop, its good spec except for the graphics, 32MB

Some dell laptops can have their video cards upgraded. I don't think the d600 can though. Check the dell support sites for definite info. I can't see any suggestion that the d600 can have the video card changed in the service docs though.

As for tvnutz, what's the model number of your machine? It'll be
written on the machine somewhere. The 3100 does not, and comes by default with the Intel Integrated graphics. The 5150 does have a PCI-express slot, but comes with an ATI card by default, you have to change the configuration to get the Intel graphics card. I suspect you've got the 3100, because the 1100 comes with an 865 chipset. If so, sorry, you'll have to buy a new machine to upgrade the graphics (unless there's a reasonable PCI card out there, but I think they all died ages ago).

L.

tvnutz

Ye its the 3100,I opened it up and it does not have PCI Express as far as I can tell,according to that screen cap 8T8 posted.

Model number? Can't see one. I see Service Tag: HWQY02J

and some other number....U7670 or X11-45374

I don't fecking believe this. So basically i just wasted 900 quid? Typical of me,I know sh!t all about this stuff yet go and buy a pc anyway thinking because it costs that much it should have some half decent card :mad:

I'm so pissed right now. Dell hardly do returns anyone I could sell it to,get at least maybe 5-600 quid back,any suggestions? If by some miracle I could do that,Id bloddy well research what I am buying next time.

tvnutz

Once again the noob in me asks,is it is possible to buy a completely new motherboard that is PCI Express and get someone to replace my old one with it?

TheDoc

hehe yeah sure. If yo uwant a pci mobo that cheaps. Look up gigabyte, they so a really nice mobo, that is dual core sli ready. And its well cheap.

If you know wnaonye that can install it for you, otherwise you could do it yourself, its rather easy, jsut hooking stuff up.

Dont freet, dont sell your graphics card, if your mobo wasnt pci, its bout time you pgraded anywway, and since sli/crossfire and dual core are the future best of getting a mobo that supports them anyways.

8T8

tvnutz that sucks maybe someone else can clarify but dont Dell have odd power supplies that work only with their boards or have they stopped that and cases could be another factor I think Dell use the BTX form factor on some of there models while 99% of all motherboards you can buy off the shelf are ATX.

A Google search seems to confirm that Dimension 3100 series use the BTX form factor, does your system look something like this (scroll down page to see pictures) as thats BTX.

In order to make use of a graphics card you will need at least a new case and motherboard conforming to the ATX form factor and get someone to gut the Dell for parts.

MSI 915G chipset with PCI-E 16x slot, intergrated graphics, DDR slots
MSI 915P chipset with PCI-E 16x slot with DDR/DDR 2 slots
ATX case with power supply
CPU cooler (Dell's own custom setup probably wont transfer)

If you are not sure of what memory type you have get the second one with has both DDR and DDR 2 slots however it requires a graphics card as unlike the first motherboard it does not have integrated graphics.

You might be able to get away without having to reinstall or repair XP as its the same kind of chipset but its a tricky one to call by the way if that doesnt work and you don’t have an actual XP install disc (which Dell don't usually supply) then your up sh*t creek as a repair of an existing XP install is the only way to transfer an existing XP installation to another motherboard easily.

[Maybe you could get Dell to sell you a new BTX motherboard with a PCI-E 16x slot but its unlikely I would think]

Edit: Actually now that I think on it if you transferred everything to a SFF PC with the same chipset that is all you would need and buy a graphics card when ready problem is the price the units url=http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3GVM]link1[/url url=http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3GVL]link2[/url url=http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3PW8]link3[/url in question are not cheap.

tvnutz

Geez,I'm thinking this is the last time I deal with Dell. Are they trying to be awkward by doing everything different!

Ye my pc looks pretty much like those photos you posted. Except for the card. There is no graphics card where that nvidia one is shown in the picture. It has the two slots as show in the very first photo,and then it has a smaller slot just above that. Which makes me wonder where my current card is,if its integrated does that mean its hidden somewhere?

*sigh* I wanted a PC mainly for gaming,I should have consulted people before buying,thats typical of what I do. I know sh!t all about the specs and technical information on PCs.

So it is possible to get a new motherboard,but Id have to get a whole load more stuff so it can be ATX not BTX,and in the end I might lose Windows XP which would totally bollox me up...:(

I do know someone who knows all this stuff,I think he built his own PC. So if I can get a hold of him,Ill ask him about it. This PC has 1gig memory,P4,DvDRW +/- drive,160 gig hard drive,but without a decent grapics card of PCI Express,I won't get much for it at all will I?

8T8

Yup you’re between a rock and a hard place, the integrated graphics is actually on the motherboard itself most likely the Intel GM9xx series.

Because Dell is Intel's lapdog they use whatever Intel wants pretty much, Intel has been trying to get everyone to switch over to BTX unsuccessfully I might add with everyone else sticking to the ATX form factor for motherboards.

The tech specs for the 3100 on Dells site list that you have a single PCI-E 1x slot and two PCI slots unfortunately the 1x slot simply isn’t good enough.

Switching motherboards could be tricky yes as it may not adjust properly however if you used the same Intel 915 chipset (but in ATX form) then you considerably lower the risk but if it didn’t work then you would at least need access to a WinXP install CD (even just temporarily) to run the OS repair program so it would rebuild the driver database allowing you to boot the OS from the new motherboard.



You do have one more option that is a bit more cost effective, this barebones PC* has a motherboard (with same chipset as you) with integrated graphics (same as yours) a PCI-E 16x slot, a case and a power supply if you bought that [plus a CPU cooler] and then ask the person who would gut your Dell to transfer everything into this new PC and boot it and see if it works without having to reinstall the OS, if the person you know builds PC’s then more than likely they will have an XP install CD so if the worst case scenario happens you can get them to run the XP installer and repair your operating system so it will boot on the new PC.

Conversely if everything goes without a hitch then you will boot straight into your OS and just have to reinstall a few drivers after that you will be able to install any PCI-E graphics card you want.

* Requires DDR 400 memory you can check what kind you have by using CPU-Z

Gurgle

tvnutz wrote:

Once again the noob in me asks,is it is possible to buy a completely new motherboard that is PCI Express and get someone to replace my old one with it?

Chill,
The motherboard is by far the cheapest component of a PC these days.
You're starting at €75 for a PCI-E board that will do just fine.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=312602&view=detailed

8T8

His motherboard uses the BTX form factor I would doubt that m-ATX board you linked to would work in it as the CPU cooling system is linked to the position of the CPU socket which is not in the same place on ATX boards along with the mounting holes for the motherboard, expansion & IO plates.

Actually I just noticed that Elara are selling BTX motherboards with a PCI-E 16x slot however they are mBTX which is the micro version so your CPU cooler more then likely wont line up so you would require a new one but the motherboard will fit inside your case. I am assuming your motherboard is a full BTX and not an mBTX however if it is an mBTX then it should be a perfect match. However the chipset is a 945 series & yours is a 910/915 series from your first post so you might have to do the XP repair OS steps I outlined.

That motherboard also uses DDR2 memory dimms so if you dont have those your out of luck though Dell say on their site that they use DDR2 in the 3100 series.

But it's never that easy it seems Dell decided that seeing as it doesn’t have a PCI-E 16x slot then we will throw in a crappy PSU according to Dells site the PSU is a 230w part now you "might" be able to get away with a low to mid range card on that but that but no way in hell would you get a high end card running reliably on such a power supply so you would need a new one if you were going to get a high end graphics card.