Help with graphics card

tvnutz

8T8 wrote:

You do have one more option that is a bit more cost effective, this barebones PC* has a motherboard (with same chipset as you) with integrated graphics (same as yours) a PCI-E 16x slot, a case and a power supply if you bought that [plus a CPU cooler] and then ask the person who would gut your Dell to transfer everything into this new PC and boot it and see if it works without having to reinstall the OS, if the person you know builds PC’s then more than likely they will have an XP install CD so if the worst case scenario happens you can get them to run the XP installer and repair your operating system so it will boot on the new PC.

Conversely if everything goes without a hitch then you will boot straight into your OS and just have to reinstall a few drivers after that you will be able to install any PCI-E graphics card you want.

* Requires DDR 400 memory you can check what kind you have by using CPU-Z

Well I have to say you have all been a great help,thanks for the suggestions. I like the idea of buying that barebones PC. I could transfer my processor,1gig memory and hard drive into it,and as you say it is PCI Express,so I could buy the good card I want. This DDR 400 memory,how do I find ou if I have it? Whats CPU-Z? You see all this stuff makes my brain melt,so Ill probably show my friend what you suggested and see if he can do it. And if he doesn't have a Windows XP cd,can't you buy one? Expensive I'd imagine,but Im willing to splash the cash as this whole mess up was my fault,and I do want a good graphics card.

I'll let you know what I decide!

8T8

CPU-Z is a program which tells you mostly information on your CPU but it also has a memory tab that will tell you what kind of RAM you have DDR or DDR 2 unfortunately I believe we already have the answer as Dell's site lists the 3100 as using DDR 2 RAM so that bare bones system would be useless as it only accepts DDR.

However its worth at least confirming that information anyway also Sisoft sandra will do the same thing if you open the "mainboard information" module in the memory banks section. If you wanted to use that bare bone system in the event you do have DDR 2 RAM and didn't have any DDR RAM you would have to buy it as DDR 2 is not backwards compatible.

If you see my previous post Elara sell a BTX motherboard the smaller "mBTX" class but it should fit none the less in your system and you should be able to keep everything as is though I have a gut feeling your system is actually a mBTX to begin with.

You could confirm if it is a mBTX by taking a look at this motherboard [warning very large picture] which is the one on Elara's site does your motherboard have the CPU socket in the same position just beneath the memory slots at the top ?

Also do you have 4 expansion slots at the back like this ? that's the only thing I would be concerned about as Dell's site says 2 PCI and 1 PCI-E x1 for your PC if you look you see the x16 slot might not be usable if you had only 3 expansion slots although you could cut the case but that would be a last resort option : )

If by some miracle that board will fit in your PC you can keep everything and wouldnt have to change anything while gaining a PCI-E x16 slot however you would eventually have to change the power supply as Dell shipped a very weak unit with that PC (as they never intended for it to have a graphics card) so the 230w unit would need to be repalced with a 350-400w unit.


Still with me if none of the above pans out you have no other option then to buy a new case/power supply/motherboard/CPU cooler if you wish to retain the parts from your current Dell PC.

tvnutz

Actually I'm lost at this stage,lol

So basically I can't buy that barebone PC because my memory is DDR2-SDRAM,(which it is according to that thing you gave me to download).

Still with me if none of the above pans out you have no other option then to buy a new case/power supply/motherboard/CPU cooler if you wish to retain the parts from your current Dell PC.

So...this is not the barebone PC thing,its just an empty case bought on its own,add a newly bought motherboard,a newly bought power supply,a newly bought CPU cooler,and keep my current hard drive,CPU,1 gig memory,CD/DVD-RW drive etc

Wow,Dell really are a load of crap aren't they? That combined with me being an idiot...well,you can see what I have gotten myself into :rolleyes:

TheDoc

did you say you already bought the graphics card? if its pci, and i think you said its a 7800? it can be easily sold here on boards,ebay or buy and sell, since you havnt fitted in pc its unused, so you should get the full price back in reailty.

8T8

tvnutz wrote:

Actually I'm lost at this stage,lol

So basically I can't buy that barebone PC because my memory is DDR2-SDRAM,(which it is according to that thing you gave me to download).

So...this is not the barebone PC thing,its just an empty case bought on its own,add a newly bought motherboard,a newly bought power supply,a newly bought CPU cooler,and keep my current hard drive,CPU,1 gig memory,CD/DVD-RW drive etc

The Asus barebones system I linked to uses DDR RAM in the motherboard supplied with it so if you did buy it you would also have to purchase DDR RAM for use with it. Of course for the same price of the barebones plus new DDR RAM you would probably be able to buy a motherboard & case that uses DDR2.

So in short if you dont want to replace the motherboard with that mBTX one from Elara the only thing you can do is gut the Dell for parts CPU/CD/DVD/HD/Floppy and possibly RAM and use it in a new case with a new motherboard.

tvnutz wrote:

Wow,Dell really are a load of crap aren't they? That combined with me being an idiot...well,you can see what I have gotten myself into :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more Dell are indeed a load of crap dont get me started on the junk they pre-install in XP when you buy a machine from them.

Gurgle

8T8 wrote:

I couldn't agree more Dell are indeed a load of crap dont get me started on the junk they pre-install in XP when you buy a machine from them.

Oh ffs, you get what you pay for.

tvnutz

8T8 wrote:

So in short if you dont want to replace the motherboard with that mBTX one from Elara the only thing you can do is gut the Dell for parts CPU/CD/DVD/HD/Floppy and possibly RAM and use it in a new case with a new motherboard.

The latter is looking like the better option,I don't want to have to buy new ram when I have a gig of it already. You have been a huge help already but do you have any links to where I can get a new case and a PCI-E motherboard,and cooler to go with my other deel parts (CPU/CD/DVD/HD/Floppy)

Thanks

8T8

This motherboard is compatible with your CPU and DDR 2 RAM (it actually has slots for DDR and DDR 2) it also has a PCI-E x16 slot for a graphics card, price €95.

However it requires a graphics card as it has no integrated one so I don’t know exactly what you want in terms of performance/cost but here are a few suggestions;
Place holder till you get money for something better.
Current Mid range decent enough card though about to be replaced next month by a new generation card.
Higher end of mid-range spectrum good longer term investment as it does well with shader heavy games which most future games will be.
High end card quite powerful but pricey as well only needed if you plan to play games at high resolutions with all the details maxed e.g. 1280x1024 or higher.

This case will suffice as a budget unit there are plenty of others if it does not appeal to you the power supply that comes with it isn’t anything to shout about but it will be sufficient and do the job.

Now as for a CPU cooler well the excellent Zalman cooler is the way to go very efficient and quiet though it is a little more involved to install it but if someone else is doing the building it shouldn’t be a problem.

I think that is everything covered.

tvnutz

Cool,thanks for all that.

However it requires a graphics card

Ye,I think thats what started this thread lol I wanted to get a new card until I realised my pc is a load of crap

I had shortlisted 2-

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315784

and

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=313573

The 2nd is supposed to be better,but what do I know

So would one of them do instead of the ones you mentioned?

there are plenty of others if it does not appeal to you the power supply that comes with it isn’t anything to shout about but it will be sufficient and do the job.

Any links to a few more powerful ones,so I can think about them?
Sorry about all the questions,I could search myself but looking at the specs and stuff makes my head hurt,I wouldn't have a clue.

Thanks again

8T8

Both are the same type graphics card however the second one has been factory over clocked out of the box so you are guaranteed a faster card though the speed improvement is often marginal in most cases and they do as you see charge a premium for it.

Both are good cards however if €400 is your limit from OcUK you can get something even more powerful ATI's top of the line X1800XT part (though this has been superseded by the X1900XT parts its still quite faster than a 7800GT) see the Connect3D or Powercolour X1800XT cards.

OcUK have a special offer for this week only a Connect3D X1800XT going for £229 = €333 that is a good deal for a very high end graphics card. For contrast Komplett only sell the slower X1800XL part at the roughly the same price and that is slower than the 7800GT, an X1800XT is faster than a 7800GTX 256 part the next one up after the 7800GT.

In regards cases it’s not to difficult it’s all down to aesthetics and which pleases the eye the most, where they say (without PSU) means that no power supply is included with the unit. For example this unit is reasonably stylish though you would need a PSU (power supply) to go with it here in an example of an upmarket PSU though some of the cheaper regular ones would do as well as long as you get a 350W or greater model though do not buy the absolute cheapest PSU those are usually trash.

Of course if you do get the graphics card from OcUK they also have a large selection of cases to choose from as well, Lian Li are my personal choice though be prepaired to pay through the nose for some of them.

Oh yeah while not totally above board seeing as Dell stiffed you in regards a WinXP install disc what you could do seeing as you have a valid XP install key (should be stuck on the Dell somewhere) is ask someone who has a Windows XP Home CD to make a copy for you then when the time comes you can use your copy with your legit serial key to repair your XP install after the new hardware is installed or do a format of the hard drive (make sure you back up your data) and do a clean install of WinXP on the new computer.

tvnutz

ok,Thanks for all the help. That friend came over this morning to have a look at the pc and he reckons he could do it as you suggested,i.e. but the case,motherboard,cooler etc and gut the dell. Ill start buying up the pieces I need as soon as I can,probably when I get paid this week

Ill let you know how it goes anyway. Thanks.

Baud

tvnutz wrote:

ok,Thanks for all the help. That friend came over this morning to have a look at the pc and he reckons he could do it as you suggested,i.e. but the case,motherboard,cooler etc and gut the dell. Ill start buying up the pieces I need as soon as I can,probably when I get paid this week

Ill let you know how it goes anyway. Thanks.

BTW, I'm sure dell are on your hate list, but some dell outlet machines are insanely cheap at the moment, especially with 80 EUR off. I just found a Dual core 3.0G P4 9150 for 320 EUR. And it definitely has a PCI express slot (it comes with an ATI X300 SE which sucks).

L.

tvnutz

320 euro? where did you find that?

anyway,one more question before I start buying parts,someone else mentioned to me that he would be concerned about the BIOS (no idea what it is!) and that the dell one might not work if transfered into a new case or motherboard,or something...Firstly,what the hel are BIOS and is he right?

Baud

tvnutz wrote:

320 euro? where did you find that?

at the dell outlet store. But that one is gone now.

tvnutz wrote:

anyway,one more question before I start buying parts,someone else mentioned to me that he would be concerned about the BIOS (no idea what it is!) and that the dell one might not work if transfered into a new case or motherboard,or something...Firstly,what the hel are BIOS and is he right?

The BIOS is a basic bit of software that boots your machine (the bit that shows
the dell logo and tells you how much memory you have etc). It's specific to a motherboard, so you wouldn't move it over from the Dell motherboard to the new one.

L.

tvnutz

Ah so when I buy a new motherboard there will be new BIOS,and it should be fine,yes?

Like I said,I have this fear I will buy 300 euro worth of parts and when they are all put together,it won't work

But everyone seems to tell me it should be fine,so I think Ill go ahead with it.

cheers

tvnutz

Ok,I am 99% sure I know what I have to get for this to work now,but thats not good enough,I need to be 100% before I spend a lot of money again

So...

This case: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311365

This PSU: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=308878

This motherboard: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311867

This CPU Cooler: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=306455

This graphics card: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=313573

And then my memory,DVD/CD rom drive,processor etc from my dell pc.

So will all these work together? This motherboard will take the graphics card,and the case will take the PSU??? etc... For example the the PSU says "PCI-E, 20/24pin". What does that mean?

8T8

Yes all the components you selected will work with the parts from your Dell.

The PCI-E power connector is nothing to worry about it it just a future proofing power supply in that it has a clip on part that makes the main power connector to the motherboard support the current and newer power connectors found on some motherboards (ones with the new are still quite rare).

Hold off on the graphics card for another one to two days at least, NVIDIA are launching the GeForce 7900GT along with its bigger brother tomorrow just wait and see if;
a) Komplett have them in stock
b) What price they are at

Because even a stock 7900GT will be faster than that overclocked 7800GT so their is no point buying that if you can get something a good bit faster if it is roughly the same price in one or two days time.

tvnutz

ok thanks mate,Ill hold off on the card for a few days then,but Ill start buying up the rest of the stuff now. Thanks for all the help...but I probably will be back at some stage with more questions

8T8

Well the 7900GT cards are out and in summary they are equal/faster than the 7800 GTX with that in mind there is little point in going with the previous 7800GT card given the performance difference and the fact that you can get 7900GT's cheaper.

Point of View GeForce 7900GT €352

tvnutz

ok...so you reckon I should go with this new one then? Will that be compatible with the motherboard I just bought? Which was this one-http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311867

It is PCI express 16x? or basically will it fit!?

excuse the bad grammer and basic tone of this post,a little drunk my 21st today

8T8

Yeah it will work fine it uses the same PCI-E x16 interface.

tvnutz

what a night...can't believe I took time in the middle to post here

Anyway,thanks for that. I think Ill order that card now,I made enough cash last night to cover everything