Focus ST

Big Balls

kdevitt wrote:

One of the car programs on satelite (god knows which channel it was) featured the Focus RS as one of their 'Free to drive' cars - in other words it depreciated so little according to market prices that you could sell it a year after buying it for close enough to what you paid.

I'd imagine the ST will be more or less the same - looks like a lovely car too, and as said above, road tests are extremely positive. Have read about major delays in deliveries of them though.

You really can't rely on UK stuff. An RS is a far more sellable car in the UK than here. Tax and insurance are just one factor, a 2.5 litre Ford in this country is crazy!!!!! I have not seen ONE on the road in ROI - there's a reason for that and it certainly ain't exclusivity.

I appreciate the new ST is in another league compared to the last model, the same can be said for the GTI but I'VE OWNED FORDS and I just would not put any money on them being anywhere near as strong residual wise. It has 25bhp more, in real world terms, that's not a huge amount. It's not going to leave the GTI behind in any situation - the Golf not having at least air con is a joke alright, but at least you get a roof.

There's a pretty good test to take anyway.. go to any finance company and see how many of them will give you a package with a final payment (which keeps your monthly repayments down) on an ST and then do the same with the GTI.

At the end of the day, it's not my money but I can't sit back and watch people type complete rubbish such as you'll sell it on for a profit a year later. Nobody has done that with a GTI here and certainly nobody will do it with a Focus.

HungryJoey

I think this one is a no Brainer. That Focus ST sounds so hot. Great deal, Great specs and is so unique. There are so many GTI's on the road at this point, Im dying to see my first ST. They look so beautiful and that 2.5L Turbo engine sounds savage. I say go for the ST. Its the obvious choice, as nice as the GTI golf is, i think its got to be the ST on this one.

Hj

mik_da_man

Cheers for all the comments,
some good info there.

i Have to admit that the price discount is a good factor in this for me
I get a 2.5 Turbo hot hatch for €29K:D
Pretty good IMO

Fair enough the tax is gonna be high and insurance not too cheap
Unless i go for the 123.ie offer

Also I like the idea of so few sold here to be honest

Don't get me wrong I really like the GTI Golf - But they are common enough
I seen 4 today in a 15 min drive to work!

I have not seen one ST so far!

Just hope the delivery tme aint too long

Keep the comments comming;)

Mik

HungryJoey

I don't think any comments can be added to that You summed it up perfectly. Go for it

Hj

Squirrel

http://www.cbg.ie/Car_detail.asp?CBGID=380052&ID=637554&NumPics=1&Make=Lancia&Model=Integrale%20EvO%202&frmFilter=

A hot hatch is what you want? Oh yeah!!!

Henry Ford III

Big Balls wrote:

You really can't rely on UK stuff. An RS is a far more sellable car in the UK than here. Tax and insurance are just one factor, a 2.5 litre Ford in this country is crazy!!!!! I have not seen ONE on the road in ROI - there's a reason for that and it certainly ain't exclusivity. Simply because none have been delivered yet

I appreciate the new ST is in another league compared to the last model, the same can be said for the GTI but I'VE OWNED FORDS and I just would not put any money on them being anywhere near as strong residual wise. It has 25bhp more, in real world terms, that's not a huge amount. It's not going to leave the GTI behind in any situation - the Golf not having at least air con is a joke alright, but at least you get a roof. Would you buy a VW GTI if it had 175bhp? Only if you got a discount I'd suggest. The Ford has lots of extra power, torque, acceleration and for track or autobahn use only a higher top speed. It's spec. is much higher, it has an extra cylinder and is a less stressed engine, and despite all this costs thousands less.

There's a pretty good test to take anyway.. go to any finance company and see how many of them will give you a package with a final payment (which keeps your monthly repayments down) on an ST and then do the same with the GTI.
Rubbish. What would a finance co. know about a car that has yet to be delivered? Parkers rate it's residuals as strong incidentally.

At the end of the day, it's not my money but I can't sit back and watch people type complete rubbish such as you'll sell it on for a profit a year later. Nobody has done that with a GTI here and certainly nobody will do it with a Focus.

I agree both will loose value. If the o/p gets 17% off the list price of the ST his value after 12 months will still be quite close to what he paid for it.

p.s. There are lots of 2.5l and bigger engined cars around. Lot's of people run them. A 2 litre and 2.5 litre both suffer the same VRT rate. Of course it makes sense to run a 2.5l ST. Compared to the GTI it's actually a bargain.

bazz26

Looks like there are a few in the country already:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=368681

The alloys are nice.

Henry Ford III

Delivery mileage or just disconnected speedo?

A few extras on that one too. Metallic, auto headlights/wipers, bluetooth, 6xcd changer.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote:

Looks like there are a few in the country already:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=368681

The alloys are nice.

That isn't a used car

Henry Ford III

It's advertised in the used cars section.

fletch

Its done 100miles so I guess that counts as used...

Henry Ford III

Very lightly used. I'd wager it's a demo with a disconnected speedo.

The colour is good.

phoenix_nights

If your into motor racing, horse betting, local soccer, DIY, sausages,indian curry and like doing your gardening with your shirt off then the ford ST is for you.

If you know into bluetooth, artic monkeys, electric picnic, 2 megapixel phones, texting,tapas, balsanic vinegar and thai curry then the GTI is for you.

Henry Ford III

I cannot agree. VW means "peoples car". They are not a premium brand. The marketeers have deluded you I suspect.

Betty Swollocks

phoenix_nights wrote:

If your into motor racing, horse betting, local soccer, DIY, sausages,indian curry and like doing your gardening with your shirt off then the ford ST is for you.

If you know into bluetooth, artic monkeys, electric picnic, 2 megapixel phones, texting,tapas, balsanic vinegar and thai curry then the GTI is for you.

what are you talking about? if your into cars which this forums is supposed to be about...then you would respect the heritge that the ST comes from....the ST woul beat the gti around any circuit..i would repect the ST as a choice more..GTI's seem to be everywhere..great though they are..i reckon the ST is a more individual statement than a golf..and better value

mik_da_man

Have to agree with Betty on this

The ST is much more "indvudial" car
which is what i'm after

But it's damn near impossible to get a test Drive in one.

Not one in the country to test drive as far as I could find:mad:

And only 3 Garages have one - but already sold

(apart from Tullamore maybe)

Mik

Henry Ford III

There's one due in Lyons of Limerick soon. The boss man wants it for himself. I'm getting a drive however, and may well order one depending....

Henry Ford III

mik_da_man wrote:

Have to agree with Betty on this

The ST is much more "indvudial" car
which is what i'm after

But it's damn near impossible to get a test Drive in one.

Not one in the country to test drive as far as I could find:mad:

And only 3 Garages have one - but already sold

(apart from Tullamore maybe)

Mik

They are plentiful in the UK. Get a cheap flight and go drive?

mik_da_man

Not a bad plan;)

But hopefully I'll be able to organise something over here.

I was chattin to a guy in ford cork who said the demo they had was booked till July!!
All reporters for motoring columns and stuff

Mik

Cyrus

Personally id get the ST purely for the discount, but id have to have leather those seats like crap.

Just as an aside a mate bought the new gti as soon as it came out, paid 37k for a 5 door with a few extras, went in out of curiousity to see how much an 06 would cost hom and he nearly cried, apparently vw dealers are now giving a 2.5k discount on new gtis? gonna hit residuals a bit

which is good for me i want one!

Henry Ford III

ST seats are proper Recaros. For really sporting driving the "ass slide" on a leather seat is offputting tbh.

mik_da_man

I agree,
I would much rather the Recaro non leather
quite comfy and keep you where you should be when you have to
make some *ahem* evasive maneouvers * Ahem*;)

Mik

Big Balls

Henry it's clear you live, eat and breathe Fords but some of your responses to my post are pretty funny..

So finance companies know NOTHING about the cars they are giving their money away for people to buy with?? So how come then, I couldn't get a final payments on an ST (granted the last model but same scenario - just out) but no problem with the GTI.

How is the GTI engine "strained"?? I've driven strained/underpowered engines and the GTI ain't one of them.

How is a car with a mere 25bhp going to pi55 all over one on a track?? It's 25bhp, not 250!!

You clearly have a passion for the Ford but you have no wisedom to back any of it up.

Gatster

Lengthy discussion here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=219172

According to this list

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21203&page=5

...the ST is slower round the nurburgring than the outgoing Civic Type R, so I wonder where the Golf sits, can't find any references to it being driven round there? There you go, get a Type R (or the Integrale listed earlier!!!)

phoenix_nights

Henry Ford III wrote:

I cannot agree. VW means "peoples car". They are not a premium brand. The marketeers have deluded you I suspect.

I was not saying that it was a premium brand at all. ( I noted with amusement your attempt at dismissing my opinion but i will let it pass.) I was just saying that they are marketed at a different segment of the population. If you are in your 40's you are gonna be into the ST and if you are in your 30's; the GTI.

In 10 years time when on the forum some kid is ranting on about the almera GTI i will be defending the heritage of the VW GTI.:)

Henry Ford III

Big Balls wrote:

Henry it's clear you live, eat and breathe Fords but some of your responses to my post are pretty funny..

So finance companies know NOTHING about the cars they are giving their money away for people to buy with?? So how come then, I couldn't get a final payments on an ST (granted the last model but same scenario - just out) but no problem with the GTI.

How is the GTI engine "strained"?? I've driven strained/underpowered engines and the GTI ain't one of them.

How is a car with a mere 25bhp going to pi55 all over one on a track?? It's 25bhp, not 250!!

You clearly have a passion for the Ford but you have no wisedom to back any of it up.

We are all entitled to our opinions B.B.

I already mentioned the "last model" ST 170. Not a bad car, but not the best of it's type by a distance. It was pricey to begin with, and depreciated rapidly largely through lack of demand. I drove one and it was only marginally quicker than an ordinary Focus 2.0 Zetec (130bhp) in everyday use, with the extra power only available up very high in the rev range. I also found the gearbox obstructive. This probably but not neccesarily explains why a garage wouldn't allow you finance one as you wished.

The new ST is entirely different. New chassis, body, engine, box and trim. It is now the acknowledged class leader, and is actually very good value relatively speaking. Ford expect to sell c.100 of these in Ireland per year, and that rarity allied to it's overall superior onroad abilites will ensure high residual values. Traditionally Fords RS models were well sought after used, and I expect this to be no different.

I never said the GTI engine was strained. What I did say was that the ST engine was less stressed. 200bhp form 2 litres or 225bhp from just over 2.5 litres. Simple maths.

The extra 25bhp is a 12.5% increase on the GTI's which is significant. This comes with increased torque (in gear pull) too. Fine the GTI is quick, but the ST is quite a bit quicker. The ST has vvt so will accelerate strongly at any revs in any gear. If 25bhp makes no difference I'll ask you again would you be happy with a GTI with only 175bhp? Of course not.

That enough backup for you?

Henry Ford III

Gatster wrote:

Lengthy discussion here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=219172

According to this list

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21203&page=5

...the ST is slower round the nurburgring than the outgoing Civic Type R, so I wonder where the Golf sits, can't find any references to it being driven round there? There you go, get a Type R (or the Integrale listed earlier!!!)

..but the old Focus RS (Mk1 2 litre) was quicker than the Type R on the Top Gear track, and the new ST is 10 or 12 seconds quicker than that around the ring.

Go figure.

Henry Ford III

phoenix_nights wrote:

I was not saying that it was a premium brand at all. ( I noted with amusement your attempt at dismissing my opinion but i will let it pass.) I was just saying that they are marketed at a different segment of the population. If you are in your 40's you are gonna be into the ST and if you are in your 30's; the GTI.

In 10 years time when on the forum some kid is ranting on about the almera GTI i will be defending the heritage of the VW GTI.:)

Understood I am in my 40's btw

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote:

increased torque (in gear pull) too

320NM @1600 vs 280NM @1800. The Golf's figures are excellent for a small petrol engine, but the Focus is significantly more powerful

Anybody any links to the fastest Nordschleife times for the Golf? As posted above, the outgoing Civic Type-R did 8:47 and the Focus ST did 8:51. I suspect the Golf will be a few more seconds behind that, but I might be wrong

Henry Ford III

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/page_2.shtml

Shows the ST to be slower than the Focus RS but quicker than the Civic Type R. The ST test was in the wet I think, which would tally with Ford's own figures which show it to be 12 or 13 seconds quicker around the Nurburgring.