The Overtaking Lane!!!

smarty · 21-02-2006 12:48pm #1

I was driving across the Toll Bridge at the M50 last night at about 9pm. I cam through the toll and was in the middle lane. As we got to the end of the bridge and it is back to a real motorway I moved into the overtaking lane to go passed a guy. There was an old ford fiesta sitting in the overtaking lane going at less than 80 kmph.

I flashed my headlights to indicate to him that I wanted to go past him and he didn't respond. Then about ten seconds later I flashed my lights again. The guy put on his hazard lights and then started to slow down. I pulled into the left lane and went passed him. At this stage he decided to pull in behind me and started to flash his lights.

Now I agree that flashing the lights at a driver asking him to move over may irritate him, but how can you get people to realise that it is an overtaking lane and that they should move out of the way when a car wants to go past them.

KerranJast · 21-02-2006 12:56pm

He's the one flouting the rules of the road so screw him. You flashed him to get his attention and if he was too pig ignorant to notice that he was doing 40kph less than the limit and in the wrong lane then it's his tough sh*t.

seamus · 21-02-2006 12:59pm

Some people are idiots. You can't really avoid them. In this situtation if the guy decided to chase you and tailgate, I'd take a note of his reg and report him.

I'd love to hear the Gardai laugh when they say "He flashed me first".

MercMad · 21-02-2006 1:01pm

Arent the new penalty points laws going to deal with these idiots ??

smarty · 21-02-2006 1:05pm

MercMad wrote:

Arent the new penalty points laws going to deal with these idiots ??

I don't know, but I think inappropriate use of the overtaking lane should be two points automatically.

BrianD3 · 21-02-2006 1:05pm

Well the thing about the toll bridge is that some of the toll booths "feed" into the overtaking lane whereas others feed into the driving lane. It can take a bit of time for some drivers to sort themselves into the right lane after the booths. Also the drive away from the booths is like the start of a Grand Prix as drivers floor it and jostle for position. If someone finds themselves in wrong lane and in a slow car they can get swamped. Not making excuses for him or anything and it sounds like he was in the wrong. But I would have a slightly different attitude to someone hogging the overtaking lane directly after the toll bridge than in some other situations.

jd · 21-02-2006 1:07pm

Gerry Ryan was giving out about getting flashed on the M50 on his show this morning. He was going on about how he was doing near the speed limit, but his car could go much faster if he wanted. I have a suspicion the smug ****er was in the overtaking lane...

smarty · 21-02-2006 1:09pm

BrianD3 wrote:

Well the thing about the toll bridge is that some of the toll booths "feed" into the overtaking lane whereas others feed into the driving lane. It can take a bit of time for some drivers to sort themselves into the right lane after the booths. Also the drive away from the booths is like the start of a Grand Prix as drivers floor it and jostle for position. If someone finds themselves in wrong lane and in a slow car they can get swamped. Not making excuses for him or anything and it sounds like he was in the wrong. But I would have a slightly different attitude to someone hogging the overtaking lane directly after the toll bridge than in some other situations.

Thats a fair point. I have seen that before.

stevenmu · 21-02-2006 1:09pm

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, it's just annoying. It is illegal, and dangerous, to flash your lights at somebody just because you want them to get out of your way.

Alun · 21-02-2006 1:14pm

stevenmu wrote:

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, it's just annoying.

It is, if the inside lane is empty, which I assume it was in the OP's case.

It is illegal, and dangerous, to flash your lights at somebody just because you want them to get out of your way.

Is it?

jd · 21-02-2006 1:15pm

stevenmu wrote:

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, .

ROTR says drive left, pass right. The cops have pulled people for it (not often though)
jd

smarty · 21-02-2006 1:15pm

stevenmu wrote:

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, it's just annoying. It is illegal, and dangerous, to flash your lights at somebody just because you want them to get out of your way.

I am afraid you are wrong here.

The rules of the road state that "you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking".

Personally I think this is the problem. Most people don't know the rules of the road, and take offence at being flashed at, even though they are in the wrong.

ballooba · 21-02-2006 1:23pm

Is it actually illegal to flash you lights? What about turning on your right indicator even though your in the right hand lane?

People sometimes cop the second one.

seamus · 21-02-2006 1:25pm

stevenmu wrote:

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, it's just annoying. It is illegal, and dangerous, to flash your lights at somebody just because you want them to get out of your way.

Yes and no. You could find yourself charged with an offence if you give a misleading signal.

Flashing your lights is a signal to other vehicles of your presence, nothing else. Using them for any other purpose is a misleading signal.

However, it is fair to say that flashing your lights as you approach a vehicle in the overtaking lane of a motorway/dual carraigeway is signalling the vehicle of your presence.

It would also be fair to assume that if a vehicle has not moved from the overtaking lane when there is space to do so, and you are waiting behind them, that they have not seen you, so flashing your lights is a valid signal to bring your presence to their attention.

fletch · 21-02-2006 1:26pm

ballooba wrote:

Is it actually illegal to flash you lights? What about turning on your right indicator even though your in the right hand lane?

People sometimes cop the second one.

Yeh that's what I always do....doens't come across as agressive

stevenmu · 21-02-2006 1:45pm

A few of you are making similar points so I'm going to be lazy and just address a few samples

ballooba wrote:

Is it actually illegal to flash you lights?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it is depending on the circumstances. It's dangerously distracting other drivers on the road, if you do it to warn them of something (other than a garda checkpoint obviously

) then it's ok, but not to get them out of your way.

What about turning on your right indicator even though your in the right hand lane?

I'd imagine that's ok, you're not grabbing the attention of anybody, they'd have to look in their mirror themselves to see. Also you're supposed to indicate while overtaking, I'm not sure how that applies in the overtaking lane, but I think I remember hearing that you actually should.

Seamus wrote:

However, it is fair to say that flashing your lights as you approach a vehicle in the overtaking lane of a motorway/dual carraigeway is signalling the vehicle of your presence.

As I understand it, there is no need to inform a car ahead of you on a motorway of your presence. You only need to do that if there is some danger posed by the car not being aware of you. Otherwise you're just drawing the attention of the driver away from the road in front of him.

Alun wrote:

It is, if the inside lane is empty, which I assume it was in the OP's case.

If it was empty then the OP should be in there too

The op did mention that he was overtaking another car, perhaps this fiesta, slow and all as it was, was overtaking other cars too, traffic can get pretty slowed down in the inside lanes around there. There's also a lot of lane hopping around the N4 flyover, so slowly overtaking can be prudent.

Either way, even if there were no other cars on the road, unless the OP is a Garda then it's not his place to enforce the rules of the road.

el tel · 21-02-2006 2:03pm

stevenmu wrote:

It's not illegal, or especially dangerous, to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane, it's just annoying.

If the Micra driver who on Sunday night on the M1 decided to commence a 80kph overtaking manoeuver as I was approaching at 100 yards doing 120kph is reading this, then I want you to know that it is especially dangerous to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane.

KerranJast · 21-02-2006 2:22pm

el tel wrote:

it is especially dangerous to be going below the speed limit in the overtaking lane.

No it's not. The speed limit is the maximum legal speed allowed not the speed to be aimed for. What is extremely dangerous is overtaking without checking for an approaching vehicle from behind.

zuutroy · 21-02-2006 2:37pm

fletch wrote:

Yeh that's what I always do....doens't come across as agressive

I think that one comes from the continent. Thats the only place I've ever seen it. I'm pretty sure if I did it, most Irish drivers would just think you're a sap for leaving your indicator on since joining the motorway!

ballooba · 21-02-2006 2:50pm

Combine right indicator with a flick of full beams and you will make up the slowest of drivers.

murphaph · 21-02-2006 3:00pm

One of the 30 odd new offences coming under penalty points is innapropriate use of the overtaking lane by HGV's. Perhaps slooow ass ignorant fcukers should have been included. Motorways are designed to carry traffic fast and safe. Driving slowly on them is dangerous.

The indicator trick is illegal in Germany (probably other continental countries too) as is flashing the lights.

A public awareness campaign needs to be run about how to drive on multi-lane roads.

smarty · 21-02-2006 3:02pm

stevenmu wrote:

The op did mention that he was overtaking another car, perhaps this fiesta, slow and all as it was, was overtaking other cars too, traffic can get pretty slowed down in the inside lanes around there. There's also a lot of lane hopping around the N4 flyover, so slowly overtaking can be prudent.

Either way, even if there were no other cars on the road, unless the OP is a Garda then it's not his place to enforce the rules of the road.

I moved into the overtaking lane because I was going past another vehicle. The fiesta was about 50 metres ahead of me. When he saw me coming, if it was possible, and it was, then he should have moved over to the left lane.

Remember, the rules of the road state that "you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking". I was attempting to overtake the fiesta, therefore I was correctly in the overtaking lane.

I wasn't enforcing the rules of the road. I was attempting to pass a slower moving vehicle.

smarty · 21-02-2006 3:04pm

murphaph wrote:

Driving slowly on them is dangerous.

I would regularly drive on the motorway at less than the speed limit. Between 80kmph and 100kmph. However, I would drive in the left hand lane when doing so. I do not think this is dangerous. If however I was driving at this speed in the overtaking lane, now thats a different matter. But I agree, that ignorance is a big factor and education /puclic awareness is needed.

el tel · 21-02-2006 3:12pm

KerranJast wrote:

No it's not. The speed limit is the maximum legal speed allowed not the speed to be aimed for. What is extremely dangerous is overtaking without checking for an approaching vehicle from behind.

The incident which I recounted, and which was selectively edited and took out of it's intended context when you quoted it, qualifies a situation when it is not safe to be driving slow in the overtaking lane.

As a unqualified example, doing 30kph (ie "going below the speed limit") in the overtaking lane could hardly be considered safe either.

Ernie Ball · 21-02-2006 3:14pm

Although someone clogging up the overtaking lane isn't forcing anyone to undertake them, it is a fact that they will cause people to undertake. That is a dangerous situation caused by inappropriate use of the overtaking lane.

smarty · 21-02-2006 3:19pm

Ernie Ball wrote:

Although someone clogging up the overtaking lane isn't forcing anyone to undertake them, it is a fact that they will cause people to undertake. That is a dangerous situation caused by inappropriate use of the overtaking lane.

Undertaking, or passing on the left, isn't illegal.

I think there are three occasions when you are allowed to pass on the left. I passed the driver of the fiesta on the left. This is completely legal, because the traffic in the left lane was travelling faster than the traffic in the overtaking lane. As long as I don't break the speed limit in this case there is no problem.

Ernie Ball · 21-02-2006 3:27pm

smarty wrote:

Undertaking, or passing on the left, isn't illegal.

I think there are three occasions when you are allowed to pass on the left. I passed the driver of the fiesta on the left. This is completely legal, because the traffic in the left lane was travelling faster than the traffic in the overtaking lane. As long as I don't break the speed limit in this case there is no problem.

That really is not what the ROTR say. If what you say were the case, one could undertake at will (as long as one doesn't break the speed limit) since, by definition, the cars you are undertaking are travelling slower than you are.

In the ROTR, the third case where undertaking is permitted (the others being when the driver ahead is turning right and you are going straight or when you are turning left and have signalled this) is this:

"Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane."

That hardly applies to the situation you described.

alias no.9 · 21-02-2006 3:28pm

smarty wrote:

Undertaking, or passing on the left, isn't illegal.

I'm afraid it is. It is only legal to pass on the left when the car you are passing is indicating right to turn right at an upcoming junction or where there are multiple queues of traffic and the left hand one is moving more quickly.

smarty · 21-02-2006 3:31pm

Ernie Ball wrote:

That really is not what the ROTR say. If what you say were the case, one could undertake at will (as long as one doesn't break the speed limit) since, by definition, the cars you are undertaking are travelling slower than you are.

In the ROTR, the third case where undertaking is permitted (the others being when the driver ahead is turning right and you are going straight or when you are turning left and have signalled this) is this:

"Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane."

That hardly applies to the situation you described.

I get your point there. But would 80kmph be considered "moving slowly" on a motorway?

Ernie Ball · 21-02-2006 3:36pm

smarty wrote:

I get your point there. But would 80kmph be considered "moving slowly" on a motorway?

The rules of the road don't define "moving slowly" but I'd guess that the situation envisaged is a traffic jam. If you're in a traffic jam in the left lane and it happens to be moving faster than the right, you don't have to worry about being done for undertaking. Otherwise, you do.;)

Doolittle51 · 21-02-2006 3:40pm

Does anyone know anybody who has been done for undertaking, or is it just another one of those rules that never gets enforced?

I think the ROTR need to be updated with a clear set of guidelines for motorway driving. It's obvious from reading some threads here that there is alot of confusion surrounding motorway driving.

The Overtaking Lane!!!

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