The Overtaking Lane!!!

smarty

Doolittle51 wrote:

Does anyone know anybody who has been done for undertaking, or is it just another one of those rules that never gets enforced?

Never heard of anyone being done for it, but could it be classified as dangerous driving rather than undertaking?

seamus

Guy posted up here a few weeks back was done for it. "Careless driving".

Doolittle51

Why is undertaking regarded as dangerous anyway?

netman

MercMad wrote:

Arent the new penalty points laws going to deal with these idiots ??

Laws are only effective if they are enforced.
Going on past experience I expect them to be simply dried ink.

blastman

smarty wrote:

Undertaking, or passing on the left, isn't illegal.

Can open. Worms everywhere.

smarty

Doolittle51 wrote:

Why is undertaking regarded as dangerous anyway?

If someone was jumping from lane to lane, it may be construed as dangerous driving. Not that it necessarily is.

Gary ITR

I drove from Dublin to Dundalk today and I came accross a few cars blocking the overtaking lane. I used the 'turning on the right indicator' method and I must say it worked a treat. People are staring to get used to it I think

ambro25

zuutroy wrote:

I think that one comes from the continent. Thats the only place I've ever seen it. I'm pretty sure if I did it, most Irish drivers would just think you're a sap for leaving your indicator on since joining the motorway!

It is mandatory (as in: FR rules of the road) in France to signal during the entire overtaking manoeuvre, on the motorway just like on a single carriage way. Not many FR people know that one either, mind. That's what FR cops would do you for, if they can't do you for anything else and you got cocky (:( - - ). Same in BE and LUX. Don't know about DE or elsewhere for sure.

alias no.9 wrote:

It is only legal to pass on the left (i) when the car you are passing is indicating right to turn right at an upcoming junction or (ii) where there are multiple queues of traffic and the left hand one is moving more quickly.

Not so sure about (i) at all, unless there is a filter lane, in which case it's case (ii) really - which is OK.

In respect of (i), I have been in the car with a friend in the UK who was likewise 'undertaking' a car indicating right and slowing down, when the car decided to turn left instead and t-boned us. Insurance eventually settled on a 50-50, after however initially indicating it was my friend's fault as he was the following car and should have stopped/slowed down until the lane was clear of obstruction. Again, that's UK. Might not be so in IE.

skywalker_208

The Fiesta started tailgating you on a motorway after doing 80kph?? easy solution to this.. wait until he is up your arse and stand on your brakes...

guarantee he will fall back....

ambro25

Or you'll be walking for a few weeks while they sort your car's rear end. It's a well known fact of motoring life that Fiestas have notoriously powerful brake systems. :rolleyes:

Ernie Ball

In the US, undertaking is not illegal and it's not quite the free-for-all one might imagine. But many if not most of their motorways are 3 lanes or more. If you have 6 lanes going in one direction, it would be absurd to demand that everyone pass only on the left.

If it's legal it's a lot less dangerous than it becomes if it's illegal. What's dangerous about undertaking here is that it usually happens after overtaking is thwarted by a slow and oblivious driver in the overtaking lane. Since there are generally only two lanes, you have faster drivers pulling from the overtaking lane out into the slower lane and back into the overtaking lane. That constant churning of slow and fast is what's dangerous.

skywalker_208

wake the hoors up though...

smarty

skywalker_208 wrote:

The Fiesta started tailgating you on a motorway after doing 80kph?? easy solution to this.. wait until he is up your arse and stand on your brakes...

guarantee he will fall back....

I'd prefer to keep my car out of the service centre, regardless of who is paying!

jasonb

If the overtaking lane should only be used when you're overtaking a car, then, during peak times, shouldn't all cars be in the left hand lane only?

Obviously, in practice, when traffic is backed up on the M50, cars are in both lanes. But surely all the cars in the overtaking lane can't claim to be overtaking the cars in the left lane, the two lanes ( in my experience ) tend to move at different intervals, and sometimes the left is faster, and sometimes the right. Which mean, as far as I can understand it, that all the cars in the right overtaking lane are breaking the law.

The right lanes in this country are rarely used as 'overtaking lanes' and they're nearly always used as a second lane, or sometimes a 'fast lane'. A lot of drivers who use the lane to overtake, and give out about people going 'too slow' in the lane, never go into the left hand lane themselves, but stay in the right hand lane, perhaps using the logic that they'll eventually catch up with the car ahead of them, and are therefore still 'overtaking'...

J.

Gatster

Similar thing happened to me a couple of months ago - where the limit increases back to 120 after Dundrum (southbound on the M50) I increased to 120 in the left hand lane and was approaching a blue Focus estate. I indicated to pull out into the overtaking lane to pass him and for NO reason (ie. there was nothing immediately in front of him) he pulls out but does not increase his speed, causing me to brake suddenly. I flashed him, more out of annoyance than anything and he slammed his brakes on dropping us both down to (no joke here) about 30kph.

On the M50, at 0700 on a Tuesday or something.

He then proceeded to floor it to escape, and I was quite frankly stunned at the danger this bloke had caused (more to other road users). I caught him up as he turned off at Sandyford (I was carrying onto the N11) and he just did the 'stare straight ahead' thing

ballooba

jasonb wrote:

The right lanes in this country are rarely used as 'overtaking lanes' and they're nearly always used as a second lane, or sometimes a 'fast lane'. A lot of drivers who use the lane to overtake, and give out about people going 'too slow' in the lane, never go into the left hand lane themselves, but stay in the right hand lane, perhaps using the logic that they'll eventually catch up with the car ahead of them, and are therefore still 'overtaking'...

J.

I would generally stay in the overtaking as I am generally moving faster than the trafic in the left hand lane and generally as fast or faster than cars behing me. I always regularly check all my mirrors whether on motorway, N road or urban. If I see a car approaching behind me I will pull in to the left hand lane as soon as it is safe to do so. If there is no gap I will accelerate until I find one.

KerranJast

el tel wrote:

The incident which I recounted, and which was selectively edited and took out of it's intended context when you quoted it, qualifies a situation when it is not safe to be driving slow in the overtaking lane.

As a unqualified example, doing 30kph (ie "going below the speed limit") in the overtaking lane could hardly be considered safe either.

Sorry if I edited your quote but your original post was right about and I was just highlighting the bit I wanted to comment on.

What I was trying to say is that what the Micra driver did wrong is overtake another car when a faster vehicle was approaching from behind (provided you were in the overtaking lane). If you were approaching from behind in the left lane and weren't signalling to move to the overtaking lane then he wasn't at fault (provided of course he signalled to overtake). And of course driving significantly slower than the legal limit on any road is dangerous and is an offence, that doesn't mean everyone should be driving dead on the speed limit though.

stovelid

and let him drive into you. You and the tailgaters deserves each other, you clown

skywalker_208 wrote:

The Fiesta started tailgating you on a motorway after doing 80kph?? easy solution to this.. wait until he is up your arse and stand on your brakes...

guarantee he will fall back....

Savman

smarty wrote:

Undertaking, or passing on the left, isn't illegal.

I think there are three occasions when you are allowed to pass on the left. I passed the driver of the fiesta on the left. This is completely legal, because the traffic in the left lane was travelling faster than the traffic in the overtaking lane. As long as I don't break the speed limit in this case there is no problem.

You're spot on. Passing on the left is perfectly legal in circumstances where the Left lane traffic is moving faster than Right lane traffic. Of course they probably mean gridlock situations but there's no harm if its moving traffic as long as it sunder the limit

Torak

ambro25 wrote:

Not so sure about (i) at all, unless there is a filter lane, in which case it's case (ii) really - which is OK.

In respect of (i) it is illegal in the UK AFAIK to overtake on the left even when the car is indicating right, has slowed down and moved out and is clearly turning right.

It IS legal to do so in Ireland although not without it's dangers.

ambro25 wrote:

In respect of (i), I have been in the car with a friend in the UK who was likewise 'undertaking' a car indicating right and slowing down, when the car decided to turn left instead and t-boned us. Insurance eventually settled on a 50-50, after however initially indicating it was my friend's fault as he was the following car and should have stopped/slowed down until the lane was clear of obstruction. Again, that's UK. Might not be so in IE.

Nasty, Presumably (and hopefully) everyone walked out of it in one piece...

gerrycollins

flashing headlights at the driver in front is both dangerous and an annoyance and misleading to the driver in front,in saying that when the jerk in the merc comes up tailgating you it is safer to move out of the way even for a few seconds its not the end of the world and let him off to be killed in a crash or caught by the guards. the former more likely to happen so slow down

as for left lane,overtaking etc
stay in the left lane until necessary to use the right lane to overtake.
use the right lane when approaching a merging traffic situation but then when all cars are up to speed return to the left lane
otherwise in the car park that is the beloved M50 use both at peak times no rules applies other that staying alive as cars lane hop just to get that extra 50 yards ahead

jd

gerrycollins wrote:

use the right lane when approaching a merging traffic situation but then when all cars are up to speed return to the left lane

Wrong..

gerrycollins

jd wrote:

Wrong..

how?
when i am approaching, it is good practise to use the overtaking lane to allow merging traffice onto the motorway so long as i do not impeed drivers already on the overtaking lane ie. going slower than them

quick question to all
who has after passing their test gone back and got lessons to do with motorway driving?remember that as an L plate driver you shouldnt be on it in the first place lessons or no lessons?

i did mine with ISM a best practise driving course,basically a course to improve what you already know and further take kinks out of driving habits

AMurphy

smarty wrote:

I was driving across the Toll Bridge at the M50 last night at about 9pm. I cam through the toll and was in the middle lane. As we got to the end of the bridge and it is back to a real motorway I moved into the overtaking lane to go passed a guy. There was an old ford fiesta sitting in the overtaking lane going at less than 80 kmph.

......

.

Dunno, i wasn't there and it depends.

Some use the merge from 5 lanes to 2 like the start of the Grand Prix. some daudle off, rearrange the purse, hair, seatbelts, radio, etc.
there is no stipulation that the fast cars go to one set of booths and the slow to the opposite, so you can get a slow poke on teh fast side and vise versa. so the best approach may be take it easy until the cars get sorted out and be patient until they do.

Therefore we don't know if you were gunning it past the slow car and ran into the back of another just getting into position or this took place for a mile down the road.
btw, was the car you were originally passing going faster or slower than the Fiesta.
If faster, you should have been able to determine how long it would take for both of you to pass the Fiesta on the "wrong" side.

and if the Fiesta was going faster of the two you were passing, then just wait a few sec, and pass the firsta on the "wrong" side.
either way, sometimes it pays to practice a little "look ahead stratagy" and a bit of patience.

Lets assume for a moment that the Fiesta is the slower of the two cars you were passing, you pop out behind the Fiesta and he's going nowhere fast, but meanwhile the car you originally past is now pulling abrest of you on the "wrong" side.
Flashing the lights at the Fiesta is not going to achieve much, where is he going to go.... over on the shoulder?. Speed up, that may not be an option if the car and/or driver are old and worn and leaking lots of fluids.:D
So you have achieved nothing other than now blocking the highway and/or annoying both yourself and somone else, great achievement...

Just learn to predict trajectories better and drive around obstacles, not over them.

smarty

AMurphy wrote:

.

Dunno, i wasn't there and it depends.

Some use the merge from 5 lanes to 2 like the start of the Grand Prix. some daudle off, rearrange the purse, hair, seatbelts, radio, etc.
there is no stipulation that the fast cars go to one set of booths and the slow to the opposite, so you can get a slow poke on teh fast side and vise versa. so the best approach may be take it easy until the cars get sorted out and be patient until they do.

Therefore we don't know if you were gunning it past the slow car and ran into the back of another just getting into position or this took place for a mile down the road.
btw, was the car you were originally passing going faster or slower than the Fiesta.
If faster, you should have been able to determine how long it would take for both of you to pass the Fiesta on the "wrong" side.

and if the Fiesta was going faster of the two you were passing, then just wait a few sec, and pass the firsta on the "wrong" side.
either way, sometimes it pays to practice a little "look ahead stratagy" and a bit of patience.

Lets assume for a moment that the Fiesta is the slower of the two cars you were passing, you pop out behind the Fiesta and he's going nowhere fast, but meanwhile the car you originally past is now pulling abrest of you on the "wrong" side.
Flashing the lights at the Fiesta is not going to achieve much, where is he going to go.... over on the shoulder?. Speed up, that may not be an option if the car and/or driver are old and worn and leaking lots of fluids.:D
So you have achieved nothing other than now blocking the highway and/or annoying both yourself and somone else, great achievement...

Just learn to predict trajectories better and drive around obstacles, not over them.

I am afraid I don't really understand you here?

AMurphy

Which part/parts and/or is everyone of a similar opinion?.

Seth Brundle

MercMad wrote:

Arent the new penalty points laws going to deal with these idiots ??

Only if they will be enforced!

fletch wrote:

Yeh that's what I always do....doens't come across as agressive

Many people drive along for several hundred yards with their own indicators ticking away and they are oblivious to it. Will these people see your indicator light flashing?

murphaph wrote:

Driving slowly on them is dangerous.

Really, where are you getting this info from or are you just making it up?

jd

gerrycollins wrote:

how?
when i am approaching, it is good practise to use the overtaking lane to allow merging traffice onto the motorway so long as i do not impeed drivers already on the overtaking lane ie. going slower than them

If there is no need to move to the overtaking lane-don't.

Fey!

If traffic on the left is moving faster than traffic on the right, you may enter the left lane to pass the driver in the right lane. It is 1 of the 3 times you can overtake on the left, the others being as mentioned earlier (vehicle in front turning right, and you turning left ahead of the overtake point). However, spacial awareness must be used (ie, if a truck is turning right, don't overtake on the left as the tail swing might get you - saw a camper van wiped out last year due to this; he ignored the "do not pass on left if vehicle is turning right" sign on the back of the truck in front of him!!!)

RobAMerc

I did notice the overhead signs on the M50 heading south at least show an arrow over each lane, with the sign for continuing on the M50 pointing over the right lane and the sign for destinations leaving the M50 over the left lane. Perhaps this is why some muppets stay out right all day, coz they are going straight ?

Could be a sineage coupled with idiots problem !