Lies, Damn Lies, and Fianna Fail 2002 Electoral Promises

DublinWriter

Now that the 2007 General Election is starting to hove into view, I started to cast my mind back at some of Fianna Fail's more elaborate promises during their 2002 campaign and the serious gaffes they've made in the meantime.

Chief amoung their 2002 promises was....wait for it...a promise to end hospital waiting lists by 2004!

When it comes to gaffes, my top two would be 1) Martin Cullen's flushing away of €55 million of our money on a failed e-voting system and 2) Mary Hannifin's withdrawl of the widow's pension and subsequent U-Turn.

But it's over to you as your memory is probably better than mine!

Name your favourite failed FF electoral promises and gaffes, but *please* make sure that they are directly related to ministerial policy. Things like the M50 and PPARS wouldn't make the list in my eyes as they are all about indirect mismanagement rather than direct policy.

I think it's important that we compile a good list of 10 failed promises and gaffes to counteract what I think will be the key point in FF's 2007 campaign, which will be the 'feel-good' factor of the SSIAs maturing and their attempt to buy us off once more with our own money.

SeanW

Promised the people of Meath a railway to Navan in their 2002 manifesto, but have said in their most recent PR stunt, Transport 21, that Navan won't get its railway until 2015 (if ever).

The M3 motorway, as originally proposed, would have severed the remaining Clonsilla railway alignment at Cannistown making the reopening project unviable. It took an appeal to the M3 planning permission to fix this.

Meanwhile Navan could have a rail service, very cheaply, in less that 2 years

Much done, a hell of a lot more to do.

The_Minister

DublinWriter wrote:

Chief amoung their 2002 promises was....wait for it...a promise to end hospital waiting lists by 2004!.

What were they thinking? No-one could have fulfilled that promise!

DublinWriter wrote:

When it comes to gaffes, my top two would be
1) Martin Cullen's flushing away of €55 million of our money on a failed e-voting system

If those machines had worked then they would have saved massive amounts of money

DublinWriter wrote:

2) Mary Hannifin's withdrawl of the widow's pension and subsequent U-Turn.

She should have taken away the pension, that wasn't a gaffe. Why the hell do widows need more money?

constitutionus

i cant believe no ones mentioned it yet:eek:

drumroll please, 2000 extra gardai[/quote]

supposedly by the end of this gov which is 17 months away. macdowells spinning like mad to try and get the 4000 "voulenteers " to count as em but theres no way in hell anyone'd believe they count as full gardai.

gas thing is its utterly redundant anyway, with the population of dublin alone going up by 250 thousand since then we'd need at least 4000 to have any impact. and god help us when the pop of the country's meant to go up by two million by 2020:)

Victor

Delaying the decision on joining up Luas and the Metro for years. Luas was given the go ahead by the previous government (i.e. pre-1997) and the have basicly gone nowhere since.

Sam Vimes

Firespinner wrote:

What were they thinking? No-one could have fulfilled that promise!

they were thinking that they wanted votes so they'd promise to walk on water if it got them

prsonally, i'm voting for the socialists and the greens. my reasoning:
i have to vote because a lot of people died so i could
i don't want to vote for any of the major party scum
they won't win anyway. i wouldn't so much mind the socialists getting in but if the greens took the reins we'd have pristine forests and pretty much nothing else

DublinWriter

constitutionus wrote:

i cant believe no ones mentioned it yet:eek:

drumroll please, 2000 extra gardai

[/QUOTE]

I remember this being a double whammy - there was 2000 promised in the 2002 manifesto and in 2004 they promised something like 3000. None of ever materialised.

SeanW

Decentralisation (disaster, wtf did they expect?) has not worked at all.

120 ADDITIONAL buses for Dublin City, 0 delivered (as part of an apparent scorched-earth policy)

Cork

SeanW wrote:

120 ADDITIONAL buses for Dublin City, 0 delivered (as part of an apparent scorched-earth policy)

Then buy a bus & don't be looking to the government for every thing?

We have a government that owns hotels & pop music stations.

What the government has provided is jobs.

No other government comes even close to the success of this government.

Many EU countries would love a fraction of our economic success. But instead f saying "well done" - what we see is begrudgery from those who probably did precious little for this country.

promise to end hospital waiting lists by 2004!

They made big progess here.

The treatment purchase scheme?

The Irish ecomony is one of the stronest in the world!.

This is a massive achievement.

The peace process was in riuns before the PDs and FF.

Sure, the country is not perfect but why don't people do something about it? Why do people expect the government to do everything for them?

I talk to non nationals every day and they are pretty happy with the country. They work and enjoy this country.

A far cry from the begrudgers who probably should fly away to some utopia land.

Cork

But the most brillant policy Fg put forward in the last elrction was to compansate Eircom shareholders.

Any idea of how much this would have cost?

It was so brillant - Fg should include it in the 07 election manifesto.

But manybe this thread is Lies, Damn Lies, and Fianna Fail 2002 Electoral Promises.

I surpose I've gone off topic by mentioning an other party.

Apologies - This traead is confined to FF.

Other partys follow thru on election promises.

The_Minister

SeanW wrote:

Decentralisation (disaster, wtf did they expect?) has not worked at all.

I thought that was a great idea.

ISAW

Firespinner wrote:

I thought that was a great idea.

First of all when anyone claims that FF FG or whoever stated something in a manifesto could they please provide a reference to it? Otherwise it is only opinion.

It is fair to say that the opposition may have had silly policies in their last manifesto. But they are not in government!

It is fair to criticise the health system. But the current government have put about 12 billion extra into it! Where it has gone? the problem cant be lack of spending. I don't think FG/Lab would have done any better but they are not in government! It seems consultants and other senior medics can make 250-500,000 a year off the state but senior nurses and junior doctors can hope for the 50,000. If they changed the ratio to have a greater number of junior doctors it might help.

As regards electronic voting. That was not a manifesto policy AFAIK. Transport is a vast problem but nobody expected 100,000 foreigners driving cars here nor the rate of new cars sold. Navan should have a rail line but 1. would FG/Lab provide it? 2. is it a national issue worth changing government over i.e. does the opposition not have any national policies and their only option is to pick on constituencies?

I believe it is almost impossible for the opposition to criticise FF on manifestos issues (the PD maybe but also very difficult). The opposition would have to admit they really dont have any policy which is better than the current government. The truth is that in general the policies have worked as Ireland is one of the sucess stories of the world. One might criticise other things but not the policies. The opposition really wouldnt have any differing policies of note.

But again this is about FF election promises so let us start with a copy of the manifesto and not opinion about it shall we?

Zebra3

Why are people getting worked up over the 50million euro blown on e-voting? Sure as was pointed out by FF, it's not really a lot of money in the wider scale of things? :rolleyes:

ISAW

ISAW wrote:

First of all when anyone claims that FF FG or whoever stated something in a manifesto could they please provide a reference to it? Otherwise it is only opinion.

...

But again this is about FF election promises so let us start with a copy of the manifesto and not opinion about it shall we?

Not for me to do it but the best I can manage is the 92 and 97 manifestos (of all parties):

http://www.tcd.ie/Political_Science/wordscores/papers.html

DublinWriter

ISAW wrote:

First of all when anyone claims that FF FG or whoever stated something in a manifesto could they please provide a reference to it?

Yes, the 2002 FF Manifesto.

ISAW wrote:

It is fair to say that the opposition may have had silly policies in their last manifesto. But they are not in government!

Exactly, let's stay on topic and examine FF's broken promises.

ISAW wrote:

It is fair to criticise the health system. But the current government have put about 12 billion extra into it! Where it has gone?

You don't put money into a sinking-house. The Health System in this country employs about 100,000 *Civil Servants* - people who have no direct contact with the consumers of the Health Service.

The current Health Service is this country is too beurocratic. Why wasn't this reformed? Because in Ministerial terms, size is everything.

About a billion of the 12 you mention was spent on P-Pars in combination with the dozen or so consultancy reports commissioned by Michael Martin that are gathering dust on shelves in Leinster House.

DublinWriter

Zebra3 wrote:

Why are people getting worked up over the 50million euro blown on e-voting? Sure as was pointed out by FF, it's not really a lot of money in the wider scale of things? :rolleyes:

An unbelievable comment symbolic of how cavilier we now seem to be with money in this country.

It was about 2 years ago that the Childline service nearly went into liquidation over the Government's refusal to spend just under 1m funding it.

meditraitor

Here is a copy of the 2002 Election Manifesto
http://www.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/parties/ffmanifesto.pdf

Cork wrote:

Then buy a bus & don't be looking to the government for every thing?.

Straight away you have earned yourself the Fianna Fail Supporter Stupid Comment of the week award.

Congratulations

Cork wrote:

We have a government that owns hotels & pop music stations..

Which are loosing money!

The State-owned Great Southern Hotels chain is to be sold off as a "going concern" as group losses climb to a record €6 million. The Government was informed yesterday of the decision by the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA), writes Emmet Oliver

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0208/2688078765HM1HOTELS.html

Cork wrote:

What the government has provided is jobs. .

No they are not! Inward investment is creating the jobs, investment that is due to low Corperation Tax
The Rainbow Government Introduced this!
Not some fianna Fail masterstroke

Cork wrote:

No other government comes even close to the success of this government..

They inherited a country on the UP,

Cork wrote:

Many EU countries would love a fraction of our economic success. But instead f saying "well done" - what we see is begrudgery from those who probably did precious little for this country..

The people who are being squeezed by taxes left right and centre have made this country what it is, and only the government ministers have been rewarded by it
What are the wage increases voted for by Fianna Fail/PD since 1997? when you dig that out compare them to the increase in disposable income by Joe-soap on the street!
Edit just seen this Post from a while back
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054886027

Cork wrote:

The treatment purchase scheme?.

You must be joking

Cork wrote:

The Irish ecomony is one of the stronest in the world!..

The people arent the richest though-

Cork wrote:

The peace process was in riuns before the PDs and FF..

I am sending them a Blue Peter badge for this one, only for FF the people of NornIrn would be killing themselves still- Bull, they are ones who decided to change not because of pressure from a greedy ill run government

Cork wrote:

Sure, the country is not perfect but why don't people do something about it? Why do people expect the government to do everything for them?.

Because thats what they are paid for!

Cork wrote:

I talk to non nationals every day and they are pretty happy with the country. They work and enjoy this country..

This is nothing got to do with the government either!

Cork wrote:

A far cry from the begrudgers who probably should fly away to some utopia land.

Or get a job in the FF/PD government, thats a real Utopia, wages, expenses, tunnell vision

The_Minister

meditraitor wrote:

No they are not! Inward investment is creating the jobs, investment that is due to low Corperation Tax
The Rainbow Government Introduced this!
Not some fianna Fail masterstroke

Im actually fairly sure it was the PDs who brought this in. (I can't imagine Labour lowering the corperation tax)

meditraitor

Firespinner wrote:

Im actually fairly sure it was the PDs who brought this in. (I can't imagine Labour lowering the corperation tax)

As you know, I was, with Ruairi Quinn, (and Richard Bruton of Fine Gael) a member of the Rainbow Government that agreed to introduce the 12.5% rate of corporation tax. I remain convinced that this low rate of tax is a central part of Ireland economic development strategy. And I repeat what I said in Tralee: we will not increase personal income tax rates. The new Irish economy can and will generate adequate resources for investment in economic and social priority areas, without having to do so.
What we will insure, however, is a rebalancing of the tax system, so that those on higher incomes do not avoid making a fair contribution to the common purse.

]
Interview with Pat Rabitte
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/20050919123059.html

ISAW

Reply to Dublin Writer

Originally Posted by ISAW
First of all when anyone claims that FF FG or whoever stated something in a manifesto could they please provide a reference to it?

Reply from Dublinwriter: Yes, the 2002 FF Manifesto.

But you raised the issue! And I even supplied you with the 1992 and 1997 manifesto! where is the copy of the 2002 manifesto from which you claim to quote?

Originally Posted by ISAW
It is fair to say that the opposition may have had silly policies in their last manifesto. But they are not in government!

Dublin writer : Exactly, let's stay on topic and examine FF's broken promises.

Ditto!

Originally Posted by ISAW
It is fair to criticise the health system. But the current government have put about 12 billion extra into it! Where it has gone?


Reply Dublin writer: You don't put money into a sinking-house.
...
so the alternative manifesto is not fund the health system???

more reply dublinwriter:
About a billion of the 12 you mention was spent on P-Pars in combination with the dozen or so consultancy reports commissioned by Michael Martin that are gathering dust on shelves in Leinster House.

I dont believe this! I do not believe 1000 million Euro was spent on consultancy! Please produce evidence! Can you do that?

DublinWriter wrote:

Yes, the 2002 FF Manifesto.

To which you have not supplied any reference!

Exactly, let's stay on topic and examine FF's broken promises.

Ditto! You havent supplied any references to the original 2002 manifesto have you?

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote:

I think it's important that we compile a good list of 10 failed promises and gaffes to counteract what I think will be the key point in FF's 2007 campaign, which will be the 'feel-good' factor of the SSIAs maturing and their attempt to buy us off once more with our own money.

I think it would be easier to compile a list of the suckers who believe every word of election manifestos.

I mean, presumably in the interests of consistency you will show that the FG and Labour manifesto of 1982 promised that they would double the national debt, have 30,000 people a year emigrating and send unemployment into record levels while closing down hospitals etc. etc.

Otherwise someone might think that this is just more anti-FF bile masquerading (poorly) as a genuine thread...

Cork

FG wanted to compansate Eircom shareholders?

Is this FG policy?