[Article] Metro work to begin in April

jd

SeanW wrote:

Wow, crap. I just noticed the bit about the Hotel at the Airport now - WTF?

It'll be the Great Southern Tramway.

Airmail

Is metro north(west)-the green route a non runner? Surely in the current absence of any integration apart from Stephens Green on either of the other two routes the green line is the sensible option. It is the only line that has a connection point on the present plans.

As an aside the luas line planned for broadstone would no longer be needed and instead luas could possibly?? be extended from o’connell st to Dcu and Ballymun similar to that envisaged in platform for change.

dr zoidberg

The west route is not likely to be picked as it is the longest at 22 km, the most expensive, and connects to Finglas which it is planned will ultimately be served by Luas from the new Broadstone spur.

DerekP11

The RPA are legally obliged to present 3 routes for public consultation. For years the central route (give or take a few items) has been the one most touted by Government.

Regardless of the spec, this route will be the one chosen. However, if one can make a good case, then changes can be made to the central route alignment.

MarkoP11

dr zoidberg wrote:

The west route is not likely to be picked as it is the longest at 22 km, the most expensive, and connects to Finglas which it is planned will ultimately be served by Luas from the new Broadstone spur.

Thats more or less it

Luas O'Connell Street Broadstone Liffey Junc is in T21 and there appears to be funding provided to start initial planning of Liffey Junc to Finglas which would in turn link most likely to Metro West. This route is reserved and is highly segregated

Its simply swapping the PFC Metro and Luas northside alignments.

The demand calculations on the Metro North central alignment are 10-12k per hour roughly twice what a tram can manage

Transport21 Fan

DerekP11, no finger on the trigger at all. This is how P11 is now looked upon by the great unwashed, as little more that IE management's free PR boys (I know that mainly it is not true, but you need to work on this image) - The fact that the moderator of the message board PM's people to tell them he will ban them if criticise CIE/IE managment and Unions certainly does not help.

Apart from that and the endless love letters to IE engineering, P11 is doing a great job. Carry on.

SeanW

I don't know where to begin ...

Firstly, my understanding of the Platform 11 position is not dissimilar to my own - no love for either the RPA or IE. If I thought P11 had turned into a "Free PR agency" for EITHER the RPA or IE, I would renounce my membership in the morning.

I have no clue what the hell you're on about with moderators PM'ing people warning them not to criticise CIE/IE. perhaps you have not been reading posts then becuase I bash Irish Rail senselessly over their sh1t trains, logic-defying ticketing policies, lack of vision etc, both here and on the P11 forum and I haven't been PMed or banned yet.

And as for the love-letters to Irish Rail Engineering, to be fair CIE did manage to keep a lot going despite major government hostility, I have to wonder if the RPA had been around 1970s and late 1980s and running the nationwide network, how much of it would have survived? They would have probably built the DART to take 2 car trains, bought sleek and snazzy Intercity trains while the tracks fell to bits and cost overruns would have likely forced much of the network into abandonment.

I could ask you what brought about the change of heart, T21 fan, IIRC you're the one who called the RPA "the bastard offspring of CIE" and were of the similar mindset to the rest of us regarding Irish Rail and their Dublin Rail Plan. This was back when I couldn't convice anyone that Irish Rail's (then potential) choice for the Sligo Line, the 29000 railcar might not be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now, every other post seems to be CIE bashing and/or a pathetic love letter to the RPA, which seems to be rivalled only by the RPAs resident lead cheerleader "Metrobest" (who still hasn't told us exactly who he what game he's in). I at least recognise the failings of both CIE/IR and the RPA in the equal measure that exists.

30 Metre trams on the Red Line? 40 Metre trams "nonsense" how can you justify THAT? Now not only have they killed Glasnevin Junction in the 3 months since T21, curved the line so that it will NEVER happen, turned the Metro into a souped-up Luas, but now they want to BYPASS DUBLIN AIRPORT TERMINAL :eek: WTF? :mad: WAKE UP.

I really have to say to what seems to be the RPAs Fan Club:
Examine what you are doing.

wwhyte

Aliveandkicking -- good map, but it makes the station at Glasnevin Junction seem a little isolated. The Metro line doesn't have to go exactly under the heavy rail junction. Try this one:

I've put a grey box where the station excavation would take place, but the line itself and the station entrance are right on Prospect Rd. What I like about this is that it involves *less* tunnelling under houses than the proposed Central Route. (And certainly less tunnelling under Iona/Lindsay, where the residents will kick up more of a stink).

I also definitely agree with you that there should be a station at the bottom of the hill on Mobhi Rd. There's clearly the space for it and it fills a big gap between stations.

Victor

Can Platform 11 members and ex-members keep their spats elsewhere.

wwhyte wrote:

I've put a grey box where the station excavation would take place, but the line itself and the station entrance are right on Prospect Rd.

There is the issue of the canal and the double(?) lock here - the railway is well below water level. One has to be conscious of the cost and engineering difficulties involved.

wwhyte

Victor wrote:

There is the issue of the canal and the double(?) lock here - the railway is well below water level. One has to be conscious of the cost and engineering difficulties involved.

Right, but that's the case with the current proposed Central Route too.

Victor

mackerski wrote:

The funny thing is that one of the CIE lines used to have a station close to Cross Guns Bridge on the Whitworth Road side, more or less where the central alignment is proposed. I don't think it was the Midland line - can't see that there'd be space in the cutting.

It was on the (upper) GS&W line, one of the buildings remains in the tennis club.

Transport21 Fan

The old station in Glasnevin is also were Thin Lizzy played their first gig and introduced Philo to the world of rock and roll, Herpes and substance abuse.

monument

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Time for a new rail lobby?

Not that I’m interested in taking part. But wouldn’t a (public?) transport lobby be better?

Transport21 Fan

monument wrote:

Not that I’m interested in taking part. But wouldn’t a (public?) transport lobby be better?

Even better. The only way to get modern integrated public transport in Ireland is to destroy the CIE Unions powerbase, which as they assume (correctly in their case) that public transport is funded and operated for no other reason than to provide them with jobs for life and any 'public transport' as such which arises from this situation is simply a by-product and not the reason for CIE to exsist in the first place.

The only way this could happen would be for a public transport users constituency who would have the numbers to basically tell Bertie "that if CIE strike junkies do not get the sack next time they just walk off the job or refuse to work leaving us stranded, you and your Government will be voted out of power."

This will happen in time too. The hundreds of thousands in the GDR commuter belt will, just by sheer numbers form a powerful voting bloc.

DerekP11

Victor wrote:

It was on the (upper) GS&W line, one of the buildings remains in the tennis club.

Quite right.

Had a jar beside it tonight in Porterhouse north.(after we spent hours checking out metro north in the area and how Glasnevin junction could play a role) Appears to be in use by the pub for something "technical"?

Metrobest

Victor wrote:

No, I'm a Quantity Surveyor.

By the way, anything to declare? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

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Nothing to declare. My new location is Sydney! Which could hardly be further from Parkgate Street... :rolleyes:

darkman2

I suppose this metro will be another indestructible forcefield for unions??? The way unions have screwed up the country until now I dont have much confidence in this project. Unless of course im wrong and it is privately funded?:rolleyes:

Metrobest

maxheadroom wrote:

Just thinking out loud here, but in the context of a 20 metre drop to the station platforms, would it be possible to have a 'station' for people to buy tickets etc at / under glasnevin junction and then have them access the platforms of the 'botanic' stop?

I think it would be. It's certainly as feasible, if not more feasible, than rerouting the metro to GJ where there may be a combination of factors making it a less-than-ideal location for a metro stop.

See an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/Waterloo_travelator.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3001182.stm

Rather than buy into the conspiracy theory, as some people here seem to, that the RPA "don't want" to put a metro station at GJ because the idea is associated with P11, I suspect that there were other reasons making it impractical. Time will tell.

Transport21 Fan

Metrobest wrote:

Rather than buy into the conspiracy theory, as some people here seem to, that the RPA "don't want" to put a metro station at GJ because the idea is associated with P11, I suspect that there were other reasons making it impractical. Time will tell.

The truth is that neither the CIE nor the RPA want to be losing customers to each other and Glasnevin Junction would do this. It's as basic as that, and nothing is going to make each other group change their minds on this one. It's simple revenue protection. I would not be at all surprised if a potential commerical operator (Connex) said "no junction there, we want to hold on to them all the way to the Luas".

How feasible is going from Navan to the Airport by rail anyways - in terms of time spent on a train, making changes and cost compared to a basic shuttle bus service from Navan to the Airport (or a metro station north of Swords for that matter)?

paulm17781

Transport21 Fan wrote:

the fact that the moderator of the message board PM's people to tell them he will ban them if criticise CIE/IE managment and Unions certainly does not help.

Funny that, I remember asking you to stop hijacking threads that had nothing to do with CIE.

I will also publically state that I think CIE & thier unions are the worst thing to happen to rail based transport in Ireland and should be abolished now.

Asking someone not to break the board rules and telling someone not to criticize CIE unions are two very different things.

paulm17781

darkman2 wrote:

I suppose this metro will be another indestructible forcefield for unions??? The way unions have screwed up the country until now I dont have much confidence in this project. Unless of course im wrong and it is privately funded?:rolleyes:

Connex have done a pretty good job with the Luas and their drivers are excellent. I'm not sure how the metro is planned but if the RPA give it to Connex it would certainly be a good thing.... There is always the fear that Connex drivers could be the DART drivers of the 21 century though.

Transport21 Fan

paulm17781 wrote:

Connex have done a pretty good job with the Luas and their drivers are excellent. I'm not sure how the metro is planned but if the RPA give it to Connex it would certainly be a good thing.... There is always the fear that Connex drivers could be the DART drivers of the 21 century though.

There is no point of financing the Interconnector until Connex are operating the DART as you know it'll be a joke just like everything else which the CIE Unions contaminate.

Just wait till Stephens Green station when Transport21 is finished...now picture this.

...it's New Years Eve...thousands of revellers are getting on and off the Luas and Metro at Stephen's Green...but the DART station on the lower level is closed because the CIE Union DART drivers do not want to work that night...Barry Kenny appears on the TV saying "we decided not to run a service on New Years Eve night simply because there was no demand"...the camera pans arouns to 1,000's of people pouring in and out of the Luas and Metro station...

This is why the RPA and Connex are so important. Vital in fact if we want to have a hope in hell of moving public transport in this country into the modern age.

Transport21 Fan

paulm17781 wrote:

Funny that, I remember asking you to stop hijacking threads that had nothing to do with CIE.

I will also publically state that I think CIE & thier unions are the worst thing to happen to rail based transport in Ireland and should be abolished now.

Asking someone not to break the board rules and telling someone not to criticize CIE unions are two very different things.

Did you now read Victor's post about P11 past and present members slapping each other with handbags on this board?

Be nice now - I only have one handbag.

embraer170

Metrobest wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3001182.stm
.

The high speed travelator in Montparnasse is broken half the time and works in slow mode (standard travelator speed) the rest of the time. Hardly a success.

Victor

Transport21 Fan wrote:

There is no point of financing the Interconnector until Connex are operating the DART

Replacing one monopoly with another is not good.

aliveandkicking

wwhyte wrote:

Aliveandkicking -- good map, but it makes the station at Glasnevin Junction seem a little isolated. The Metro line doesn't have to go exactly under the heavy rail junction. Try this one:

I've put a grey box where the station excavation would take place, but the line itself and the station entrance are right on Prospect Rd. What I like about this is that it involves *less* tunnelling under houses than the proposed Central Route. (And certainly less tunnelling under Iona/Lindsay, where the residents will kick up more of a stink).

I also definitely agree with you that there should be a station at the bottom of the hill on Mobhi Rd. There's clearly the space for it and it fills a big gap between stations.

Thats a much smarter alignment than my map and shows that it is possible without making drastic changes to the existing route.