B/B Comparision - Smart Still the Best Deal.

paulm17781

positron wrote:

For instance, I am in Drogheda, and there’s no Metro, Smart, Magnet or NTL there – I am trying to compare between Esat BT, Eircom and Digiweb – from the table above I think I will go with Esat BT (with line rental).

I would say BT. Their billing is awful but their prices are good. If you check your bills carefully you should be ok with them.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

I would say BT. Their billing is awful but their prices are good. If you check your bills carefully you should be ok with them.

What is the good of checking your bills however carefully if your bank account has been raided? and you then have to spend hours on the phone trying to get your money back?

No company whose accounts department has been so bad for so long deserves recommendation no matter how good their products may be.

dub45

bk wrote:

FYI I believe that NTL has reduced the contract to 6 months. Also they will normally connect/reconnect you for free (saves €100/€50) if you are signing up for BB.

As we are always recommending people to read their terms and conditions - believing that a term has been reduced is not good enough - what exactly are you basing this on?

Ntl's terms and conditons:

3. Duration

3.1 The minimum period of service for any Package is twelve (12) months starting on the date we activate the Services. You can only terminate this Agreement during that minimum period if Conditions 19.5 or 20.1 apply otherwise we may (subject to Condition 20.2) charge you a cancellation charge which will be the charges which would have been payable to the end of the minimum period. If you want to terminate this Agreement after the minimum period just give us one month’s notice in writing.

bk

I was basing it on a friend who recently signed up for it and was told that the contract was now for 6 months. Maybe he was wrong?

dub45

bk wrote:

I was basing it on a friend who recently signed up for it and was told that the contract was now for 6 months. Maybe he was wrong?

I hope NTL are not going to start messing around with this type of crap - the terms and conditions I quoted are those on the webiste and they are the ones that matter.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

the terms and conditions I quoted are those on the webiste and they are the ones that matter.

No they're not. The ones that matter are the ones you sign on install. If you signed the ones on their website you shouldn't be allowed to use computers.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

No they're not. The ones that matter are the ones you sign on install. If you signed the ones on their website you shouldn't be allowed to use computers.

How many people actually sign terms and conditions?

bk

dub45 wrote:

I hope NTL are not going to start messing around with this type of crap - the terms and conditions I quoted are those on the webiste and they are the ones that matter.

NTL's website is very out of date, thet are probably not bothering to up date it because they are getting the new UPC website ready for when NTL and Chorus merge into UPC. I wouldn't take anything on that website at face value.

Of course I don't know for fact about the 6 month contract, it is just what I heard second hand, I could be wrong.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

How many people actually sign terms and conditions?

Everyone actually does as they are on the back of the install sheet, the one you sign on install. Reading and signing are not the same, I'll explain that another time, however you are not bound by anything that you have not signed.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

Everyone actually does as they are on the back of the install sheet, the one you sign on install. Reading and signing are not the same, I'll explain that another time, however you are not bound by anything that you have not signed.

Its 12 months I asked them today. How many bb customers (of any company) do you know who have actually signed a contract which included terms and condtions? In the event of subsequent queries you will be told that the conditions at the time were available on the net and you accepted them.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

Its 12 months I asked them today. How many bb customers (of any company) do you know who have actually signed a contract which included terms and condtions? In the event of subsequent queries you will be told that the conditions at the time were available on the net and you accepted them.

Fascinating. I have mine at home, on the contract I signed.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

Fascinating. I have mine at home, on the contract I signed.

Good for you but I am sure that reading the various threads on here you have realised that you are one of the very few in that situation!.

bk

dub45 wrote:

Good for you but I am sure that reading the various threads on here you have realised that you are one of the very few in that situation!.

Actually I have mine signed as well.

As NTL get engineers to install your BB, the engineer asks you to sign the docket and contract before they leave.

dub45

bk wrote:

Actually I have mine signed as well.

As NTL get engineers to install your BB, the engineer asks you to sign the docket and contract before they leave.

Hardly an ideal way to do business? You sign your terms and conditions after the product is installed? Cant imagine the engineer being too keen to hang around while a customers reads the contract in detail.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

Hardly an ideal way to do business? You sign your terms and conditions after the product is installed? Cant imagine the engineer being too keen to hang around while a customers reads the contract in detail.

Clearly you've never dealt with any service companies. All telecoms do this. Any contract mobile phone has the T&Cs on the back of the contract, Dell do (I just found a Dell one). Now that I think of it, NTL do too. There was a time when we didn't have the internet so people had to read things from paper. That can still be the case, how do you read the T&Cs if NTL is a brand new internet install?

What this has to do with who is the best value I don't know.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

Clearly you've never dealt with any service companies. All telecoms do this. Any contract mobile phone has the T&Cs on the back of the contract, Dell do (I just found a Dell one). Now that I think of it, NTL do too. There was a time when we didn't have the internet so people had to read things from paper. That can still be the case, how do you read the T&Cs if NTL is a brand new internet install?
What this has to do with who is the best value I don't know.

So how can anyone order bb if they have not got the internet??????:rolleyes:

Clearly you have never heard of dial up? Or internet cafes or friends with computers or even workplaces with computers? Or even having the T&C's posted out to a customer in advance?

This all arose from my pointing out that 'someone told me' or 'I think' is not good enough when it comes to terms and conditions. People are often not careful enough in their eagerness to get bb (and presumably other products) to read Terms and Conditions in advance. How many threads are the on the bb forum where people ask the rest of us what they signed up for?

And it is overstating things to say that all telecoms do this You would do well for instance to find a UTV customer with a copy of their terms and conditions.

philologos

replytohere2004 wrote:

I'm on Smart Telecom atm and I was just looking around to see what my B/B options and I have to say Smart is certainly the best deal, for me anyway. Eircom are nearly as bad as those guys who put the fasle covers on the ATM machines and take your money.
It will be interesting to see what NTL's upgrades will be. I think I would perfer NTL as I don't use a LandLine. Although, an extra €20/€30 for TV isn't for me either, esp when most of the TV channels are free these days.
It bamboozles me why Irish people are prepared to pay hundreds of euro for tv when they could get most of the channels free.
I suppose at €35 pm for Smarts 3mb/256k it dosn't matter about the line rental as it's so cheap.
Anybody got any news on the NTL upgrade?
It wouldn't supprise me if Smart upgrade their speed again if NTL increase their rates significantly.:)

Smart (Free Line Rental - Eircom Line Req/No DlL Caps/No Contention/Free Modem/Free Connection) (3Mb/256k at the moment - other packages coming in March)
3Mb/256k €35
4Mb/384k €45
5Mb/512k €55
6Mb/512k €65

NTL (First 3 mths Free/No Phone Line Req/Must Have Basic Cable TV €19.99pm - First Year Free(€5-€10 extra for Digital TV) Free Modem/Newsgroups)
1mb/100k €24.99 (€44.98 inc Cable - 1st Yr Free) 16GB 17:1 (Select Digital €5 Extra PM 50 Channels/Go Digital €10 - 100 Channells)
2mb/200k €29.99 (€49.98 inc Cable - 1st Yr Free) 30GB 17:1
3mb/300k €39.99 (€59.98 inc Cable - 1st Yr Free) 40GB 17:1

IBB (No Phone Line Req/No D/L Caps/Free Connection)
512/128k €18.95 40:1 No Contract
1Mb/1Mb €35.99 48:1 1 Year
2Mb/2Mb €48.40 24:1 Contract

Eircom (€24.18 Line Rental Applies/Eircom Line Req - Install Fees: InSitu or Pre-Cabled=Free Otherwise €121.93/Free B/BConnection if ordered online, otherwise €29.99)
1Mb/128k €19.99 (€44.17 inc LR) 48:1 20hrs PM/4c per min thereafter;up to €30- Free thereafter.
1Mb/128k €29.99 (€54.18 inc LR) 48:1 10GB/1GB up
2Mb/256k €39.99 (€64.18 inc LR) 24:1 20GB/Unlimited
3Mb/384k €54.45 (€78.63 inc LR) 24:1 30GB/Unlimited

BT (Phone Line Req/€40 Connection applies or Free if transfering from another ISP + don't require modem, 6month Contract)
1Mb/128k €20 or €35 with LR 10GB
2Mb/256k €30 or €40 with LR 20GB
3Mb/384k €40 or €50 with LR 30GB

Hmm i notice Magnets missing

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

So how can anyone order bb if they have not got the internet??????:rolleyes:

Clearly you have never heard of dial up? Or internet cafes or friends with computers or even workplaces with computers? Or even having the T&C's posted out to a customer in advance?

This all arose from my pointing out that 'someone told me' or 'I think' is not good enough when it comes to terms and conditions. People are often not careful enough in their eagerness to get bb (and presumably other products) to read Terms and Conditions in advance. How many threads are the on the bb forum where people ask the rest of us what they signed up for?

And it is overstating things to say that all telecoms do this You would do well for instance to find a UTV customer with a copy of their terms and conditions.

I want to put this to bed as I find this tiresome as I have proof you are wrong. People often go from no internet to BB people can't be exptected to read something online as they may not have access to it. People sometimes order BB using a thing called a telephone, I'll explain what that is another time. I would think the UTV contract has the T&Cs on it, though their sign up maybe entirely online, NTLs is not. Please stop arguing about this you are wrong about over 90% of companies and this is irrelevant to the OPs Q.

kaizersoze

Jakkass wrote:

Hmm i notice Magnets missing

Read the rest of the thread. There's a more comprehensive list on page 2.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

I want to put this to bed as I find this tiresome as I have proof you are wrong. People often go from no internet to BB people can't be exptected to read something online as they may not have access to it. People sometimes order BB using a thing called a telephone, I'll explain what that is another time. I would think the UTV contract has the T&Cs on it, though their sign up maybe entirely online, NTLs is not. Please stop arguing about this you are wrong about over 90% of companies and this is irrelevant to the OPs Q.

I am sorry you find this tiresome and your constant sarcasm is equally tiresome. But posts on thread after thread here shows that peope are not given contracts and are not aware of their terms and conditions. If you cannot conceive that you may not be infallible that is sad for you but the fact is that very few bb users actually have a bb contract with the terms and conditions that they signed up for available to them.

And I would certainly argue that being given your terms and condtions on the back on an installation sheet after the product is installed is far from satisfactory if that is what NTL do - if other people find that acceptable that is their right of course.

MOH

When I signed up with SMART I didn't sign a copy of the T&C, but I did cut and paste the online one at the time into a word doc in case I needed to refer to it again.

I also made sure to keep any e-mails I had dealing with them, which came in handy when they tried to charge me €200 euro for moving house within the initial 12-month period, despite the fact their website FAQ states you can move without paying out your old contract if you sign a new 12-month contract at the new address. There's also nothing in the T&C about a charge for moving, just about breaking your contract.

I'd emailed them before I signed up to confirm there was no penalty for moving house, got an e-mail confirming there wasn't, then when I was moving 4 months later they told me I had to pay out my contract or pay them €200 to move the account to the new address. I sent back the original e-mail i had, and after a week of mails back and forth, they backed off.

They also managed to lose my DD mandate twice, then told me my bill was a month overdue. After I'd paid by credit card over a weekend, I found they had mysteriously found the mandate and charged me by DD the previous Friday, so I'd paid twice. But they did refund my card within a few days.

Their broadband service and tech support has been great, but their general admin is a bit sloppy sometimes. Just make sure you keep copies of any correspondence you have with them.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

And I would certainly argue that being given your terms and condtions on the back on an installation sheet after the product is installed is far from satisfactory if that is what NTL do - if other people find that acceptable that is their right of course.

Vodafone, O2, Meteor, 3, Dell, Eircom, BT (used to, nor sure about now) and many, many other companies do this. If you sign up online it is one thing, if you can't do that you need a printed copy. You specifically referred to NTLs online T&Cs, you are wrong, case closed. Sick of explaing this, not going to refer to T&Cs again in this thread.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

Vodafone, O2, Meteor, 3, Dell, Eircom, BT (used to, nor sure about now) and many, many other companies do this. If you sign up online it is one thing, if you can't do that you need a printed copy. You specifically referred to NTLs online T&Cs, you are wrong, case closed. Sick of explaing this, not going to refer to T&Cs again in this thread.

That's good to hear - I hope that the next time you enter into a discussion in the broadband forum you wont quote evidence in your favour from Companies that are not in the broadband business.

Vodafone, O2, Meteor, 3, Dell,

I made my point in relation to all of the bb companies

ts 12 months I asked them today. How many bb customers (of any company) do you know who have actually signed a contract which included terms and condtions? In the event of subsequent queries you will be told that the conditions at the time were available on the net and you accepted them

And you may have missed the point that few if any dsl customers actually have an install by the Company themselves?

Everyone actually does as they are on the back of the install sheet, the one you sign on install

For example see MOH's post above!

paulm17781

paulm17781 wrote:

You specifically referred to NTLs online T&Cs, you are wrong, case closed

End of discussion.

dub45

Well when you can only quote such an authoratitive figure as yourself how can one discuss anthing with you? There are none so blind as those who will not see!!!

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

Well when you can only quote such an authoratitive figure as yourself how can one discuss anthing with you? There are none so blind as those who will not see!!!

Right, you are 100% correct. I admit it. Companies don't ever give you T&Cs on the back of contracts, I lied when I said I had. You are correct when you said NTL don't give them to you. I was just trying to argue. You're knowledge of contracts and how companies make you sign up is infallible. You have my sincerest apologies and even when I have proof your initial statement was wrong, I am infact still wrong.

Can we help the OP compare broadband again now?

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

Right, you are 100% correct. I admit it. Companies don't ever give you T&Cs on the back of contracts, I lied when I said I had. You are correct when you said NTL don't give them to you. I was just trying to argue. You're knowledge of contracts and how companies make you sign up is infallible. You have my sincerest apologies and even when I have proof your initial statement was wrong, I am infact still wrong.

Can we help the OP compare broadband again now?

I am glad to know that you have seen the error of your ways - however I should point out to you that I never wrote that NTL do not give T&C's to customers - I do not know where you got the idea that I had

How many bb customers (of any company) do you know who have actually signed a contract which included terms and condtions? In the event of subsequent queries you will be told that the conditions at the time were available on the net and you accepted them

Whatever deal the original posters opts for I strongly advise him/her to familairise themselves with the terms and conditions applicable in advance of signing any deal and not rely on 'maybe's' and 'I think' etc etc.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

I am glad to know that you have seen the error of your ways - however I should point out to you that I never wrote that NTL do not give T&C's to customers - I do not know where you got the idea that I had

dub45 wrote:

I hope NTL are not going to start messing around with this type of crap - the terms and conditions I quoted are those on the webiste and they are the ones that matter.

And I said they are not as the ones on install, that you signed are the ones that matter.

Please stop arguing. I have admitted you are omnipotent and infallible, even when you backtrack your own points, both are correct. I don't think I am good enough to live in your shadow. PLEASE STOP.

redspider

Thanks for your responses, and the updated price comparison. Food for thought.

I hear that getting in Smart takes an age, and there is uncertainity, etc.

Has anyone had any dealings with them, did you get them in recently and did the change happen quickly?

Dublin south region (I realise issues could be exhange related),

redspider

ST*

redspider wrote:

Thanks for your responses, and the updated price comparison. Food for thought.

I hear that getting in Smart takes an age, and there is uncertainity, etc.

Has anyone had any dealings with them, did you get them in recently and did the change happen quickly?

Dublin south region (I realise issues could be exhange related),

redspider

Hi,

I'm also considering getting Smart. I'm based in Dublin on the Coolock Exchange. Website says line is OK, what is the average turnaround time? Has anyone any experience good or bad in this area?