No Experience Required

BaZmO*

Not sure if that's the exact title of the show but I think it's close enough.

So did anybody see it last night on RTE2? I thought it was quite good.

I loved the bit at the very end when the girl that got the job rang her boyfriend to tell her boyfriend the news and she was greeted with a "Fuuuuuck Off!!" "No bleedin waay!" in the flattest Dublin accent you could imagine.

Shirley Valentine immediately sprung to mind. Good show though.

Scruff

who would have thought a "howaya" dub could have beat the other more refined individuals. is this the begining of the end of Irish Civilisation???

BaZmO*

The decline started when boggers started to move to the capital......

mickymg2003

I watched it. its was alright. Glad the DUB got the job and not that other stuck-up cow. Whats the job next week?

BaZmO*

mickymg2003 wrote:

Whats the job next week?

Pig Farming, but only Dubs are allowed to apply as country folk would have an unfair advantage.

4red

thought it was nice to see an Irish show set in the workplace where, lets face it, we all spend far too much time...

cuckoo

Anyone see it tonight?

The job was working in Kevin Thornton's kitchen. I think there was a jinx on it, candidates kept dropping out and then there was a sort of walk out by the two remaining, they came back the next day (which was the last day) and then one of them does a permanent walk off - and kevin thornton tells the remaining girl that he couldn't give her the 6 month job.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

was going to apply to this show - think they had an option on working in Paddy Powers bet-making room - next time!

cuckoo

cuckoo wrote:

Anyone see it tonight?

Yeah, very funny. Thornton couldn't speak properly. How can people learn when he can't speak? 'I'm gibing out bokkles a champagne to cober fer yuur miscakes'. Hilarious stuff.

redspider

There were a couple of problems with the show last night. In a way, I'm surprised that Thornton allowed it to be screened as it is bad PR in a way.

Its true that many restaurant kitchens are run hard like this by so-called celebrity chefs. Chefs have big ego's and its a tough game getting to the top. They've had to endure it on their way up the hierarchy, so they take it out on their staff and there is a huge turnover. Thornton at the end of the day wasnt interested in giving someone with no experience a job. He would even give people with many years training short shrift. This was evident in the interview when he asked each person to cook an omelette, he wanted it in the classic French way whereas everyone else cooked it in the spanish omelette way, obvious, right.

The fireworks were more a reflection on him as he put people in at the deep-end. I'm glad that the young lad walked off and has started a training course. He will be much better for it in the long term. The girl as well. The stockbroker kind of twigged that it wasnt worth giving up a well paid job to be paid an apprentice's salary for taking loads of **** from an ego-centric chef.

And lets face it, all these Michelin star rated restauraunts aren't what they are made out to be. Restaurants are over-rated and you are better going to a Mario's for Fish and Chips as you know what you get, and do your real cooking and entertaining at home.

Also lets not forget, Michelin know more about tyres and maps than about poncy silverware, serving from the right and cooking hors d'oerves.

Maybe it's the Restaurant that's jinxed. Thats the place that Conrad Gallagher had on lease. Did you notice a shot of Thornton fixing the paintings on the wall? I think the RTE editor left that in for the piss-take.

Do yourselves a favour, dont eat at Thornton's!

redspider

ps: I've been putting my other comments on the other episodes of this programme in 'The Apprentice' thread. Anyone watch The Fund?

Seaneh

redspider wrote:

I'm glad that the young lad walked off and has started a training course. He will be much better for it in the long term.

Cheers!
I think I will too.
Don't start untill next spetember, and that's only if I get in but I agree, I think it will be a better in a college atmosphere than being around that self important pretentious arse 13 hours a day 6 days a week for €250 a week!

cuckoo

redspider wrote:

ps: I've been putting my other comments on the other episodes of this programme in 'The Apprentice' thread. Anyone watch The Fund?

I've been watching the fund, it's a bit like pop idol for entrepreneurs, with whatsername on the judging panel doing the Simon Cowell role. It's an interesting format, but i'm getting a little bored with listening to the pitches over and over again.

Skyuser

Great to see our license money is going towards advertising Paddy Power and the likes.

shuushh

Great to see our license money is going towards advertising Paddy Power and the likes.

whats your point ?


i didnt get to see the chef episode but it did look interesting from the ad. It seems like you need some serious training before even going for that job so what the hell was he doing looking for people in a programme called No Experience Required

CodeMonkey

shuushh wrote:

i didnt get to see the chef episode but it did look interesting from the ad. It seems like you need some serious training before even going for that job so what the hell was he doing looking for people in a programme called No Experience Required

To be fair, no experience required doesn't mean no aptitude for working in a professional kitchen without years of training. That chef wasn't that particularly ego-centric. He was just expecting too much from the contestants and none of them were good enough that's all.

The broker guy was right to go back to his old job purely for financial reasons. What the hell was he thinking anywya? Other guy was right to go to catering school where he can learn in a pace he'll be comfortable with and with intructions to hold his hands instead of him having to watch and learn. The chef was right to not take the girl on. Like I said, they're not good enough.

memphis

I missed this. Is he repeated by any chance?

Thornton is from my home town originally. Rumour has it that the show wan't to be screened, and they then decided to at last minute. Like I say I didn't see it, but apparently he is getting very bad press over it, for his attitude, and unwillingness to actually encourage the contestants.

All chefs are the same with regard ego. You have to remember that kevin is a celebrity, with a very high standard of culinary skills which needs to be maintaned. I think its great that someone from a small town like my hometown, can become so big. For that i say fair play to him.

Chardee MacDennis

anyone know what the next one is on and when it is?

Seaneh, question for you. Thornton gave out about you guys leaving at ten on his launch night - why did you leave, were you sent home, or told you could leave if you like? it caused a bit of an argument at home. thanks

redspider

Seaneh wrote:

Cheers!

I've sent you a PM.

memphis wrote:

Thornton is from my home town originally. Rumour has it that the show wan't to be screened, and they then decided to at last minute. ... apparently he is getting very bad press over it, for his attitude, and unwillingness to actually encourage the contestants.

All chefs are the same with regard ego. You have to remember that kevin is a celebrity, with a very high standard of culinary skills which needs to be maintaned. I think its great that someone from a small town like my hometown, can become so big. For that i say fair play to him.

Well, I'm glad he is getting a hard time and some bad press over it. His behaviour was terrible (a polite description for it). If he wanted people that were going to become "instant chef's" then he was deluding himself. He admitted on the show (casual remark to the Commis') that many trainees that come his way dont make his grades of servitude, and thats after they have several years of training. What did he expect?

I think he wanted people to reach his standards without long training, but if so, he shouldnt have taken on people in the first place. He was completely disingenuous and his attitude was very poor. He was also probably in it for the publicity mainly. It may have taken him many years to come up the ranks and be treated like crap, so best avoid him and Chef's of his ilk.

By the way, he is not the only Chef to have his head up his proverbial arse. It is endemic in the industry and Restaurants come and go like flies.

My advice is, avoid Thornton's, and pass the advice on to your mates.

redspider

Seaneh

Call_me_al wrote:

anyone know what the next one is on and when it is?

Seaneh, question for you. Thornton gave out about you guys leaving at ten on his launch night - why did you leave, were you sent home, or told you could leave if you like? it caused a bit of an argument at home. thanks

Jessica lives somewhere ouytside dublin on the dart line, the last dart to her house was at 10.20 or somehting, we had told Kevin this two days before, the day before, the morning before, and a half hour before services on the night, each time he said "fine, I understand" He has a rule form the second we walked in together, "If you come together you leave together", he said it wasn;t fiar if someone spent more time in the kitchen than the other because it ment that they had an advantagem we agreed.

Comes 9.50 on the night, me a jess helpingto get one of the courses out for the services, can't remember what, one of the chef's (Ghrame, his second in command I think) shouts "Sean and Jess, It's 10 to 10" we shout back "Cheers Chef" go to tell Kevin we have to go because jess has to go home or else she's sleeping on his kitchen floor, he says "grand see you at 12 tmorrow morning". He has his usualy memoery loss when it suits him the next morning.

we arrive in at 12 the next morning, are barely 20 minutes in the kitchen, I was over by the sink preparing some veg, can't remember what, Jess was around the corner doing something else, he comes in, bad mood, screams at us to come over to him whinges for 2 minutes and fecks off again, 10 minutes later he come steaming over to me, shouts for Jess to come over, launches into 20 rant about us "leaving without premission" I decided I've had enough of it, start shout back, so we're basically screaming at eachother, Jess is standing beside me, he's verbally attacking me, insulting her, making us out to be liars, claiming we've shown him no respect since the second we came in, put no effort into it, we point out all the sacrafices we've made just to be there, puting up with him, giving him 20 hours a day some days, all the good stuff, I lose it, turn to Isabel, one of the producers, who has just arrived and say "**** this I'm going home" Kevin walks off to some corner screaming at one of his comis, see me walking off and shouts "where the **** are you going" I shout back "Like I told you 5 seconds ago I'm going home you prick" had his kitchen porter an apron, tell him it's kevins, Kevin comes around the corner after me telling me to come back, I tell him where to shove his job, get in the lift and leave.
Brian the director finds me down stiars in the changing room, tells me I was right (Isabel had told him the story) but asks me to say myside on camara so it doesn't look like I've just given up, I agree against my own desire because the production company had been so good to us, and they were nice people.
Staged that walking off down stephens green bit, went got lunch with Brian (director) Katie and Maria (Series producers and Owner) told them what happened, they tell me I'm right, continually ask me if I'm ok, fuss over me for a bit worried about me. we shot the bit in the hotel and that was that.

Longer story than was needed, but I thought I'd give you the lot.

simu

^^^

Heh, interesting stuff. I'd still like to give the menu a go sometime when I'm in Dublin, though! Many chefs seem to be similar to Thornton in personality from what I've seen!

nesf

Personally, I thought putting anyone new into that kind of kitchen to be a supremely bad idea. Kitchens can be very tough workplaces regardless, the heat and pressure do not make for a nice working environment. Even for an experienced person, that kind of pressure is tough. For people who are not used to working in that kind of environment it was just lunacy to attempt it.

I don't blame the chef for not keeping people though. It wasn't working out for anybody there, but then, that was what I expected when I heard about it. Busy "high end" kitchens and people lacking experience are not a good mix imho.

redspider

cuckoo wrote:

I've been watching the fund, it's a bit like pop idol for entrepreneurs, with whatsername on the judging panel doing the Simon Cowell role. It's an interesting format, but i'm getting a little bored with listening to the pitches over and over again.

She is a bit of a rottweiler. I think she is pregnant during the filming which is not a good mix. The problems with the business ideas is that many of them are weak from the outset and they are doing little in developing the ideas, it seems. These people need buisness advisors and lots of advice from entrepreneurs, etc, before they do each task. I felt sorry for the fella just coming in with a few hand sketches. Surely the design lads shouldnt have let him leave the office until the story board was done up with pictures.

So, there are 4 left:
- The silage bag lad - a decreasing market across Europe and a flaw is that it is more labour intensive and will cost more (btw, it took me all of 5 seconds to find a silage bag picture on google images!). He shold probably start a career in comedy as he seems to be suited to that.

- Thoroughbred website girl - there are other sites up there and she will be competing with the likes of Goff's. I have no idea of the market size or the customer need. Maybe she needs to distribute a newsletter as her DVD market is for those that dont have web access.

- large bust lingerie lassy - as a male I have no comprehension of this market at all, although I do know that 80% of women wear bra's that dont fit properly (No, I did not do the market research for that!) There must be supplies available for this type of product.

- parking notice guy - I cant see people buying a piece of cardboard that tells the parking attenmdants that they will be back. The attendants already do a couple of rounds to ensure that any car with a fine/clamp has had its chance. In Dublin, its about 20 mins. I cant see any market for this, unless the county councils change their current practice and make these things compulsory. ie: no sign or ticket implies fine/clamping. If they do that, it is unlikely there will only be one supplier.

This show is slow-moving ....

redspider

redspider

Seaneh wrote:

Jessica lives somewhere ouytside dublin on the dart line, the last dart to her house was at 10.20 or somehting, we had told Kevin this two days before, the day before, the morning before, and a half hour before services on the night, each time he said "fine, I understand" He has a rule form the second we walked in together, "If you come together you leave together", he said it wasn;t fiar if someone spent more time in the kitchen than the other because it ment that they had an advantagem we agreed.

(full story as above .....)

Seaneh, good to hear the full story. Also glad to hear that the producers and crew backed you up to the hilt. In a way, they also backed your position strongly by what was transmitted on the show. I cant say that Thornton is happy, although he will be banking that many of his clientele probably dont watch television programmes like this.

I still think that his behaviour was inexcusable. Others here have given him the benfit of the doubt, but as you say he was a prick and I would have to totally agree with you, in terms of such behaviour. He will probably even admit that some day to himself.

The problem with these Chef's is that they are creative personaility types, but they are also under business pressures where there is staff to be paid (not much!), where there is rent to be paid (usually quite a lot), supplies, overheads, etc. They tend not to have good business hats which is why many of them fall by the wayside. A prime example of that was Thornton's ranting and raving at you the next day. He was just taking his angers out on you probably about something else that had irked him. Maybe some of the critics didnt give him a glowing review or whatever, maybe his missus was giving him a hard time. But creatives are bad at dealing with pressure. And Chefs in particular have taken it out on their sub-ordinates. The hierarchical order stems from the olden days when kitchens were ran for kings and lords in chateaus. The French Revolution hung the ruling gentry centuries ago and its probably about time that Restaurants moved with more modern business practices. ie: replace slavework with teamwork.

An example of creatives not being business people was Conrad Gallagher, ironically in the same place as Thornton's - the Fitzwilliam Hotel. Gallagher got into such a pressurised position (also rented from Fitzwilliam) that he illegally sold the paintings on the wall. He knew he didnt own those paintings, as the place was rented. But like an addicted gambler who pawns something, he was going to pay it back (or buy them back) once the business turned around, but it didnt. He only stayed out of prison on a technicality as all the items were inventorised, but really the Judge just let him off - he probably had eaten at his place several times and Gallagher committed to living in the US, etc.

Simu, if I was you I would avoid Thornton's, give him what he deserves. Or if you do go in, order a big slap up meal, and when it arrives, ask for the Chef, then say "what type of crap is this?", and walk out - or an alternative, ask for an omelette, and when it is brought out, say "that is not am omelette!" ....

Seaneh, once again, hats off to you, well done for sticking up with your principles and best of luck for the future.

redspider

redspider

This worked out quite well I thought. However, the Daily Star is a rag, most of the stories in it are rubbish. The girl that got the job was well suited to it though, with a gift of the gab and being into celeb's etc, and a smile that is built into her face. The guy who went to the bank was probably better off as he has higher journalistict ambitions. I know quite a few journalists and no-one in their right mind would work at the Star. It is a pure tabloid, gutter press and doesnt aim to be any different. In a way, you dont need much experience to be a journalist for the Star, so the paper was not taking a risk.

Good to see the 20-something year old giving McDowell a bit of an embarassing time, if not a hard time in terms of political questions.

Glad to see that the older bloke got a column at the Sunday Independent. He was in no way suited to The Star.

redspider

simu

redspider wrote:

Simu, if I was you I would avoid Thornton's, give him what he deserves. Or if you do go in, order a big slap up meal, and when it arrives, ask for the Chef, then say "what type of crap is this?", and walk out - or an alternative, ask for an omelette, and when it is brought out, say "that is not am omelette!" ....

Dude, I'll go where there is good food tbh. You are naive if you think all other chefs go around giving their staff group hugs all the time.

Seaneh

you're right to be honest, the food is very good in Thorntons, but it's the most expensive restraunt in dublin, even more than La stampe and Geuilabls(sp) and to be honest the latter is the best place to eat in dublin.

lostexpectation

redspider wrote:

This worked out quite well I thought. However, the Daily Star is a rag, most of the stories in it are rubbish. The girl that got the job was well suited to it though, with a gift of the gab and being into celeb's etc, and a smile that is built into her face. The guy who went to the bank was probably better off as he has higher journalistict ambitions. I know quite a few journalists and no-one in their right mind would work at the Star. It is a pure tabloid, gutter press and doesnt aim to be any different. In a way, you dont need much experience to be a journalist for the Star, so the paper was not taking a risk.

Good to see the 20-something year old giving McDowell a bit of an embarassing time, if not a hard time in terms of political questions.

wasn't a bad show, its good it only done in one episode, i think the editor guy was on good behaviour for the cameras

Glad to see that the older bloke got a column at the Sunday Independent. He was in no way suited to The Star.

wow he really escaped the hackery there!

Chardee MacDennis

does anyone know what next weeks is on?

shuushh

never even heard of Thornton is he really famous ? what places does he own?

Seaneh

He owns thorntons, it's in the fitzwilliam, the unit used to be leased to conrad galagher, the restraunt was voted one of he top 25 restraunts in the world by restraunt magazine (the same artical that voted the Fat Duck the best restraunt in the world) a ew years ago. He's famous in culinary circles, very good chef.

redspider

lostexpectation wrote:

wow he really escaped the hackery there!

I agree with your sarcasm!

I'm no fan of the Independent titles, and agree that he didnt really go very far upp the hack scale. But at least he is hitting more of his age group with that title and a weekly column, should in theory, have more thought put into it which could suit a person of his background.

I havent read any of his articles though so I'm no judge!

redspider

ps: Seaneh, you are giving Thornton a good review, more than he deserves ;-)

redspider

simu wrote:

Dude, I'll go where there is good food tbh. You are naive if you think all other chefs go around giving their staff group hugs all the time.

Sure, people can go wherever they like, Simu. This was a general suggestion, not directed at you in particular.

I dont think for a second that any kitchen is a heavenly environment. I worked in a hotel restaurant in my teens and saw a LOT of things - very educational. I would advise everyone to work in a kitchen at least once in their lives so that they have an insight as to what they are actually buying in a restaurant. They are in fact dangerous places with hot ovens, lots of steam and hot air, and not to mention knives! They are not a place for short fuses and mood swings, like Thornton has, or indeed any chefs that have their heads up their arse.

And like a sausage-factory worker that doesnt eat sausages, just be wary of restaurants.

Thornton deserves a 'slap' for his attitude and voting with your feet is one option, good food or not.


> the food is very good in Thorntons, but it's the most expensive restraunt in dublin

He cant do omelette's though without risking giving you Salmonella!
http://www.ehow.com/how_8478_make-carnitas-black.html

The reason for the expense is to cover the lease cost and other non-food expenses. What many people dont realise is that in many restaurants its the owners of the property that get most of the money in the price of a meal, it doesnt go to the chef or the staff or pay for the 'good quality' food. The money is going on ovens, leases, insurances, etc, and the rental of the restaurant.

Simu, if you do go to Thornton's again, come back here and write up a review, and dont forget to order an omelette!

redspider

redspider

The final of "The Fund" was on tonight. 4 were whittled down to three and then there was a live public vote, pop idol style, of the final three. I'm not exactly sure if the choice is very scientific, given that the public at large are not by definition a good judge of running a business (ie: statistically, there are fewer business people - suppliers - than consumers). Still, they are as relevant as the judging panel.

The Silage Bag guy won it. I wouldnt be totally impressed by his business model but it probably is a product that may sell if pushed right but only to some extent.

I still think that the Parking Notice product doesnt have a chance of selling.

The large size bra woman did hit on one thing though, and that is the vast majority of women do not have bra's that fit them. Her own evidence is about 98%. Measuring product is a good idea, although surely a tape is too simple.

The Dragon (Maree) was a dragon again.

Not a great show overall, but an interesting twist to allow the public to vote. The quality of the business ideas nee to be better.

redspider

Skyuser

But how do you put the silage bail into the bag, there is no machinery to do it. Farmers only have wrappers.