Alarm fitting license

FrankGrimes

I know a guy who has fitted a good few alarms as nixers in his spare time. He did a FAS course over a few months and then started putting flyers in peoples’ doors and fitting alarms in residential properties where the wires were already in place.

I asked him if he was still doing it the other day and he said he’s not allowed do it anymore as he doesn’t have a license. He said getting a license costs around €6,000 in total, and he compared it to the security industry where all bouncers must have a license before they get a job.

What is this alarm fitter license he is talking about? Is it a self-regulatory step by the alarm industry or is it actually illegal for him to fit alarms without this license?

It all sounds very suspect to me as I would see this as a step by the industry to protect their vested interests by effectively pricing part-timers out of the market. I don’t see how this could be allowed in a free market economy. Fair enough, your insurance company might choose to not give you a discount for having an alarm unless it was fitted by someone with this license, but, as long as he pays his taxes, how can it be illegal to be hired by somebody to install something as simple as a house alarm?

As far as I’m aware the bouncer license is actually a self-regulatory measure, not an actual law of the land, which was brought in to pre-empt the legislation the government were thinking of introducing.

Jnealon

It's all here.
http://www.psa.gov.ie

FrankGrimes

Thanks, just read loads of details on it.

You can't be an employee in isolation from a company so for my mate this would require him getting a Sole Trader's license costing €2,250. Anyone he employed as an alarm fitter would need an Employee's License, costing €180 - both prices are for a 2 year license.

It doesn't become an offence to install security equipment without a license until 1st August 2006.

I don't like the aspect of this where it states that it will also be an offence to hire someone who does not have a license. Do they really expect your average punter to scrutinize their alarm installer's credentials to verify their license is real? How? Shouldn't it be up to me if I want to hire someone I know, an electrician with no alarm fitters license for example, to fit an alarm in my private property and pay them for their work?

I assume, but cannot tell from that site, that its still not illegal for me to fit my own alarm myself without a license?

Lex Luthor

maybe he got a call and a "friendly" word in the ear for moonlighting from the licensed installers.
I know someone who isn't licensed but installs alarms, in fact I'd highly recommend the guy, but he only works on recommendations for that simple reason of wanting to keep his knee caps where they are.

davelerave

it's a positive step in one regard .in that regulation makes it harder for people drawing dole etc. to compete against tax compliant contractors(not referring to you btw but in general).we have the same issues in the electrical industry
having to compete with operators from the black economy who can price us out of jobs for cash

TempestSabre

davelerave wrote:

it's a positive step in one regard .in that regulation makes it harder for people drawing dole etc. to compete against tax compliant contractors(not referring to you btw but in general).we have the same issues in the electrical industry
having to compete with operators from the black economy who can price us out of jobs for cash

Thats a fair point. The high costs of alarms, installers, monitoring and some shoddy practise by some companies does it no favours either.

davelerave

yeh theres two sides to it

rooferPete

Hi,

I may be wrong but doesn't your insurance company insist the alarm is installed and maintained to regulation standard ?

AFAIK it's been that way for a very long time, usually only becomes an issue if you have a claim and took the alarm discounts offered by the insurance companies.

I hope the regulation will continue right through all service industries similar to the Contractors Licence system in most US States

.

TempestSabre

If you've ever worked on ISO standard you'd know what a bunch of crock a lot of them are. You set your own low standards and once you meet that then you get the standard.

I don't know how the sercurity standard is. But judging on some of the people/companies who have it I can't imagine its very high. I've found some the independent are much better.

Stoner

Thing is there are some guys out there putting in rubbish stuff, poor quailty etc. The regs for fitting an industrial alarms have always been kept by the big and small companies in my experience, the domestic market was open to everyone with a screwdriver, over the years regs like making sure each PIR had its own cable and zone were good things. Getting a licence is the next step, you should have the option to have your system installed to a standard so you have some comeback, engineering is all about standards. Having said all this RECI did not remove the no registered electricians, it just stopped them from getting ESB connections etc, to the best of my knowledge all you have to with your insurance form is tick a box to say that your alarm is to IS119 (maybe that standard is superseded now).
If insurance companies start asking for certs then this could be trouble for the small guy.
Just to further the point many small house alarm guys do very good work, even the best of work, better then the big guys. But the thing is they dont have the back up ie in 3 years when you are getting in new windows the small guy might have packed it in, and alarms can be a real pain, ask anyone who puts them in, loads of people expect them to be maintained and moved for them for free afterwards.

TempestSabre

I've had the exact opposite experience with the bigger companies myself. But I wouldn't assume they are all like that.