Seaon 2, episode 18: "Download/Downloaded"

Fenster

Once again, I've seen both titles variously listed. This is probably been the most anticipated episode of season 2 so far, as it is set on Caprica and from the Cylon viewpoint.

Haruspex

Trailers for "Downloaded" available here.

Johnny Storm

Was it on last night? My cousins seem to be out to lunch?
EDIT: Spoke too soon, sorry. Cousins are now on the job.

cregser

Interesting episode. A bit of a whopper too. Nice to have some plot progression.

Johnny Storm

That was great. At least it was pure BSG and not the anonymous crime/war/adventure-story-in-space that recent eps have been.

Gotta love the Citroen DS and VW bug with 3 headlights - hows that for parallel evolution? Also I'm thinking Bang and Olufsen must have some kind of product placement deal.

Remarkablely unlucky that although we see a whole city of skin-jobs we hever see a model that we haven't seen before. I thought they should have bit he bullet on that one

Peace

Very enjoyable. Nice movment along the Sharon/baby plot.

It'll be interesting to see what sharon does to get revenge as she thinks her baby was murdered.

Also a revolution on Caprica. It seems that its the only way to get the humans back on top... start a revolution which finally end in series 6 in a civil war and big honkin space battle.

Fenster

Whoever did the work on the Centurion in the car park deserves an award. It looks absolutely amazing.

ButcherOfNog

awesome

balkieb2002

Once agian really good ep with lots of plot development and really building up to big season finale

also nice to see baltar get revenge for all of sixes messing with his head, but brings into question the supposed chip in his head if she has same kinda visions!!

Dunners

Had to admit I liked it, not quite what I was expecting from the episode but it was good. The finale looks like it's going to be absolutlely stunning, cannot wait for next week but also kind of sad that we are drawing so close to the end of this series of BSG

@balkieb:

I thought it was established a while ago that she was his sub-councious guilt, the whole episode in the scanner that found nothing and so on. Would have thought the vice-versa given events in this, interesting concept that cylons can feel guilt over the death of humans (almost like feeling sorry for shooting an ape). Interested to see how/if they play on that anymore.

Rev Hellfire

In the podcasts the inner six and baltar are referred to their respective manifestation of their guilt and consciences. A projection of what each of them thinks the other is.
The only problem there, at least as far as baltar's six is concerned is her ability to point out things he couldn’t possible know at either a conscious or unconscious level. At least assuming he isn’t a cylon that is, which would seem to be pointed out by this episode.
I'm still working on the principle that there’s a bit more to these harvey’s than a mere psychosis.

Johnny Storm

Rev Hellfire wrote:

I'm still working on the principle that there’s a bit more to these harvey’s than a mere psychosis.

Possibly a manifestation of the Cylon God (as someone else posted recently)?Interesting and clever the way the projections are based on what the host thinks the other person is like. Very clearly illustrated in the way Caprica Six thinks Balthar is deeply in love with her.
Is next week the season finale? Damn! :mad: Here's hoping its a good one.

angelofdeath

anyone else think that lucy lawless is a sh*t actress? also the centurions in this episode kinda seemed to me to be bumbling idiots much like their 1978 counterparts, also the gooey resurrection baths (for lack of a better description) looked a bit naff to me, other than that, top episode with good plot progression

Johnny Storm

She was kind of annoying all right. Not sure if that was her acting or the way her character was written.

Haruspex

This Cylon POV episode was highly anticipated and I think think they pulled it off admirably! Definitely one of my favourites now of the second season. They eschew the technobabble of how the download technique actually works and wrapped everything up in this regard with the quick succession of Boomer/Six vignettes in the teaser, so by the time we reach Act 1 we're parallel with real BSG time. Thank the Gods, because I feared this was yet another "28 Days Earlier" type episode and I know how much we tired of this technique in the forum by now!

I love the continuity of this series. That iconic scene where Six protects Baltar from the nuclear explosion in his apartment is now given greater depth, due to the fact that Six actually "died" during this event and it's affected her ever since. It was a stroke of genius to give Six her very own Baltar hallucination, or as someone mentioned above, her own version of what she thinks Baltar is. Actually the peformances by Callis, Helfer and Park were great and I think they carried what was a very character driven episode. As for Lucy Lawless, well we better get used to seeing more of her as she's signed up for a ten-episode arc in season three! Story

The baby Hera subplot was well handled I thought. Beautiful scene where Helo scatters the ashes into space. The motivations for Roslin doing what she did were clear cut, although as was mentioned earlier, will Sharon now submit to her Cylon subroutines? I'm thinking Adama's intelligence well just dried up!

Fenster wrote:

Whoever did the work on the Centurion in the car park deserves an award. It looks absolutely amazing.

Couldn't agree more. The best CGI rendered Toaster I've seen in BSG. Now I know how this guy feels!

balkieb2002

Johnny Storm wrote:

Is next week the season finale? Damn! :mad: Here's hoping its a good one.

Nope afaik theres the first of a two parter next week then week after the the 90 minute season finale.

http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/show/23557/episode_guide.html&season=2

GuanYin

Really liked this, I am also disappointed at the lack of other models, but I guess it could be argued that the camera zoomed fast at times and we can suspend disbelief and assume we just didn't "focus" on other models that were there.

Some nice subtle expansion on the models, Lawless's #3 model seemed to talk with disdain about the Sharon #8 model - "even some #8's" which leads me to believe there are definite human corruption traits among the cylons.

It looks like Caprica #6 and Sharon may be successful as this episode looks to lead on well to next weeks.

Will it turn out that the cylon peace party is actually instigated by the actions of sharon and six? It's known that starbuck goes back to caprica with helo - and meet Anders. They have a Sharon with them, which Sharon models is it? And finally, its been leaked that Gina's nuke gets used. Most speculation is that Pegasus is the target, but maybe the cylon peace delegation is the actual target - Gina and Biers may be aiming to stop a human-cylon peace initiative.

By the way, James Callis is an absolutely fantastic actor. I hope we seem him in bigger and better roles outside BSG. Although I must said I though that Angelus was well acted it in the Buffy series and yet the actor is pants in everything I've seen him in. Still Callis is on another level than that.

MisterAnarchy

Superb episode.
The show had been going a bit off direction the last few episodes.
Strangely Earth hasnt been mentioned in ages .

User45701

no earth because theres no reason to there own there way but it is far far away they know where it is it will just take them time to get there.

amazing episode loved the baltar in 6ths head. the way it panned onto docs face when prez said there is no way the cylons know the baby lives kinda makes u suspect him

Praetorian

Not showing other cylons on Caprica is easily explained. The cylons know there are humans still on Caprica. If the humans saw a new model "skinjob", this info would blow a "skin jobs" undercover efforts either on Caprica, or with the human fleet if the info somehow got back to them. The cylons are hiding the other skin jobs for security reasons. The writers are hiding it from us for obvious reasons

Outstanding episode

Stark

psi wrote:

It looks like Caprica #6 and Sharon may be successful as this episode looks to lead on well to next weeks. spoiler: Will it turn out that the cylon peace party is actually instigated by the actions of sharon and six? It's known that starbuck goes back to caprica with helo - and meet Anders. They have a Sharon with them, which Sharon models is it? And finally, its been leaked that Gina's nuke gets used. Most speculation is that Pegasus is the target, but maybe the cylon peace delegation is the actual target - Gina and Biers may be aiming to stop a human-cylon peace initiative.

Can you mark that as "future episode" spoiler? After seeing this week's episode I thought it was safe to read everything that was in spoiler tags within this thread.

Praetorian wrote:

Not showing other cylons on Caprica is easily explained. The cylons know there are humans still on Caprica. If the humans saw a new model "skinjob", this info would blow a "skin jobs" undercover efforts either on Caprica, or with the human fleet if the info somehow got back to them. The cylons are hiding the other skin jobs for security reasons. The writers are hiding it from us for obvious reasons

Nice explantion, I like

Frakking amazing episode I thought.

GuanYin

Stark wrote:

Can you mark that as "future episode" spoiler? After seeing this week's episode I thought it was safe to read everything that was in spoiler tags within this thread.

You mean saying something before it like "this episode leads into next weeks?"

Stark

Well I was particularly thinking of this bit:

And finally, its been leaked that Gina's nuke gets used.

"this episode leads into next weeks" isn't very clear as I just assumed you'd be talking purely about what happened in the last few minutes of this episode and how it foreshadowed the peace treaty stuff.

Goodshape

Aye, a bit of a warning in future Psi. I nearly read what happens with the nuke, but stopped myself just in time

Amazing episode anyway. After three easy-going weeks (plotwise) they really crammed a lot into this one. Acting seemed a bit hammier than usual I thought (maybe due to more of a focus being on lesser characters/actors) but that would be my only complaint.

Can't wait to see what Six and Sharron get up to.. I assume we're going to see more cylon-perspective segments in the future? This episode also fuels my suspicions that Baltar is going to join the cylons full-time.. posibly as a part of Six and Sharron's hippy movement.

CodeMonkey

Goodshape wrote:

Aye, a bit of a warning in future Psi. I nearly read what happens with the nuke, but stopped myself just in time

Arrgh my eyes...now I know something happens to the nuke next week

Rev Hellfire

you mean theres a next week !

User45701

WTF? so u read it and then u post what u read without ur spoiler tags dont suppose mods want to ban ne1 for this? if they dont does that mean that ppl can just post without spoilers about future episodes?

Goodshape

User45701 wrote:

WTF? so u read it and then u post what u read without ur spoiler tags dont suppose mods want to ban ne1 for this?

You reffering to me? I didn't think the fact that 'something' is going to happen with the nuke at 'somepoint' was much of a spoiler tbh. That really was all I read of it in Psi's spoiler.. just the word and I knew it obviously wasn't from this episode. No idea what episode he was reffering to, or what he thinks/knows happens.


So.... I wonder what's going to happen with the nuke at somepoint.

Praetorian

I didn't notice anyone posting something without a spoiler tag! :eek: I'm keen on avoiding spoilers, so keep using those tags folks for me and folks like me!

ixoy

Something better not happen with the nuke next week Goodshape...

Anyway I enjoyed this one. It's taken from a different perspective, as B5 did in a bunch of episodes or SG1 did in "The Other Guys" but importantly pushes events along as well. It wasn't just played for laughs but made some very good sense as to why the CapricaSix acted as she did and Sharon did. It gives some great insight into the downloading process (e.g. they don't homogenise all their memories together into one big mind).

Now on one side I didn't like us not seeing the other models. Praetorian's clues almost make sennse except that nooone on Galactica knows about XenaCylon so why have her wandering around the city? Yes, we the viewers know but that's not the point. And where was the other Cylon model - the scruffy one? Is he not allowed on Caprica without a haircut?

As to whether these people are figaments of each other's imagination or something more sinister like organic implantatiosn remains to be seen but it was definetely neat seeing Baltar appear in Six's head. The rebellion he helped foster (the "hippy Cylons" as aptly named) could be good and doesn't seem like a cop out as long as it's not used to remove the Cylon threat. We want that sense of danger given there's no other protaganist in the series.

Definitely some good potentials for the finale and for seasons beyond here. Good stuff.

Stark

ixoy wrote:

And where was the other Cylon model - the scruffy one? Is he not allowed on Caprica without a haircut?

It looks like the actor has been dropped or something. It also looks like they're having trouble rehiring the actor who played that black Cylon.

Peace

ixoy wrote:

And where was the other Cylon model - the scruffy one? Is he not allowed on Caprica without a haircut?

When Starbuck went back and fought against Six (man how sexy was that) there was a sign when she was entering orbit of Caprica:

"Under New Managment. Managment now reserve the right of admission: No skangers/North Siders/Scruffy Haircuts/Humans."

Scruff

great episode. really liked the original 6 having Baltar in her head. At first i thought that he too must be a cylon skin job. Good to see that the whole reseurrection process inst painless for em.
Leaves the whole series\next series plots wide open. What does the prophecy say anywho? might give some clues.
As to them mentioning\reaching earth....me thinks they'll be disappointed if they get here unless its a future earth with decent space tech!

User45701

ive always had the ider of them reaching earth being cahned by cylons andthen make a jump arrive at earth folowed by cylons and they find a cylon human concenly in peacefull coexistence or some crap like that i dcant see them going to earth gettting a big fleet then ging back to caprica?>

then gain u never know with bsg

satchmo

Great episode, one of the most enjoyable ones I've seen recently. I've a nagging feeling that the connection between Six and Baltar is going to end up being something quasi-religious, but I can't put my finger on it.

Loved the Blade Runner 'skin-job' reference too.

Jack B. Badd

Thought this episode was fantastic! Just one question: Did it look to anyone else like the shuttle with the baby on it was heading away from the fleet at the end of the episode? Or was that just me poor goggly eyes deceiving me?

Rev Hellfire

It looked like it was getting ready to dock with one of the ships at the end.

From what I gather the pegasus features well into series three, so its not the target of the nuke (anyway hasn't be hit by two or three already in the captains hand.

Jack B. Badd

Thanks. Was thinking it'd be a bit odd if the baby disappeared.

For a second at the start of the episode I thought Gaius was a cylon before I realised he was in 6's head. How messed up would that have been?!

The Corinthian

User45701 wrote:

ive always had the ider of them reaching earth being cahned by cylons andthen make a jump arrive at earth folowed by cylons and they find a cylon human concenly in peacefull coexistence or some crap like that i dcant see them going to earth gettting a big fleet then ging back to caprica?>

then gain u never know with bsg

That post was unintelligible.

satchmo wrote:

Great episode, one of the most enjoyable ones I've seen recently. I've a nagging feeling that the connection between Six and Baltar is going to end up being something quasi-religious, but I can't put my finger on it.

Indeed. Given that Baltar’s Six has revealed things to him that he otherwise could not have known and that they both seem to suffer from an identical form of ‘hallucination’ would seem to indicate that neither is actually hallucinating. However the source for their ‘hallucinations’ is now in question - the most obvious theory up to this episode was that it was of Cylon origin, but that now is probably debunked due to Six’s own Baltar ‘hallucination’.

What logically remains is either an unexpected fluke of Cylon-Human biological interaction (a Cylon STI ) or something of third party origins - and given that Baltar’s Six has told him already that she is an “angel of God”, then there’s no prizes who that third party would be, whatever about what it would be.

Loved the Blade Runner 'skin-job' reference too.

Noticed that, very good.

Peace

The Corinthian wrote:

What logically remains is either an unexpected fluke of Cylon-Human biological interaction (a Cylon STI ) or something of third party origins

I dunno about that. Helo & the chief both had sexual relations with the Sharon model and neither of them are having halucinations as far as we know.

For all the folks wondering about not seeing a new cylon model on the planet, did anyone notice the guy walking on the walkway when the resistance fighters were using the binoculars talking about the cylon guard patrolling? I paused the show on that frame but I think its the black doctor guy with a beard. But for a second he did look different. Kinda hard to make out though.

The Corinthian

Peace wrote:

I dunno about that. Helo & the chief both had sexual relations with the Sharon model and neither of them are having halucinations as far as we know.

Maybe the others simply didn’t catch it. Nonetheless, I’m only suggesting it as a theory that cannot be ruled out, whatever about it being likely.

Chances are it’ll be revealed as something completely different and inconsistent with the story arc

Rev Hellfire

Peace wrote:

For all the folks wondering about not seeing a new cylon model on the planet, did anyone notice the guy walking on the walkway when the resistance fighters were using the binoculars talking about the cylon guard patrolling? I paused the show on that frame but I think its the black doctor guy with a beard. But for a second he did look different. Kinda hard to make out though.

They didnt get the actor who played that due to costs and just got a stand in to play the part, which is why he looks somewhat different.

Peace

The Corinthian wrote:

Chances are it’ll be revealed as something completely different and inconsistent with the story arc

For a minute there i thought i'd wandered into the stargate forumn.

Rev Hellfire wrote:

They didnt get the actor who played that due to costs and just got a stand in to play the part, which is why he looks somewhat different.

Rev, are you serious about that? It doesn't sound like tomething BSG would do.

Rev Hellfire

Thats exactly what happened. They do have a budget after all, it was deemed not worth the money and a waste of the actors time since the actor wouldnt actually be doing anything other than sitting and walking around.

Johnny Storm

Anyone care to speculate on WHY the Cylons are limited to 12 models? Are the 12 based on actual humans? How/why were those 12 designs selected out of the whole range of potential human templates?

Peace

There were originally 12 colonies...

Haruspex

Johnny Storm wrote:

Anyone care to speculate on WHY the Cylons are limited to 12 models?

The number 12 has strong religious connotations and ties in well with the notion of a Cylon God. The 12 Cylon models could be seen to mirror the 12 Apostles/Disciples who spread the word of god.

The Corinthian

Haruspex wrote:

The number 12 has strong religious connotations and ties in well with the notion of a Cylon God. The 12 Cylon models could be seen to mirror the 12 Apostles/Disciples who spread the word of god.

The idea that the number twelve was in some way special predates Christianity. AFAIR, the Sumerians were the first to use it in a number of ways, such as the division of the day into 12 parts and night into 12 parts. Historically it is also considered a ‘perfect number’ - which is why there are twelve stars in the EU flag, for example.

Stark

Indeed. Given that Baltar’s Six has revealed things to him that he otherwise could not have known and that they both seem to suffer from an identical form of ‘hallucination’ would seem to indicate that neither is actually hallucinating. However the source for their ‘hallucinations’ is now in question - the most obvious theory up to this episode was that it was of Cylon origin, but that now is probably debunked due to Six’s own Baltar ‘hallucination’.


What logically remains is either an unexpected fluke of Cylon-Human biological interaction (a Cylon STI ) or something of third party origins - and given that Baltar’s Six has told him already that she is an “angel of God”, then there’s no prizes who that third party would be, whatever about what it would be.

The "God" must be of Cylon origin I reckon, possibly a program running within the downloading system (since that would have access to all of cylon conciousness/memories). Reason being that HarveySix and HarveyBaltar seem to have limited knowledge human goings on, as evidenced by HarveySix not figuring the baby switch and HarveyBaltar not being able to warn Six about the bomb blast, however both HarveySix/HarveyBaltar have intimate knowledge of cylon goings on.

The Corinthian wrote:

which is why there are twelve stars in the EU flag, for example.

I thought it was because there were 12 member states at the time the flag was introduced?

CodeMonkey

The Corinthian wrote:

The idea that the number twelve was in some way special predates Christianity. AFAIR, the Sumerians were the first to use it in a number of ways, such as the division of the day into 12 parts and night into 12 parts. Historically it is also considered a ‘perfect number’ - which is why there are twelve stars in the EU flag, for example.

...the 12 signs of the zodiac etc...nothing to do with christianity

The Corinthian

Stark wrote:

The "God" must be of Cylon origin I reckon, possibly a program running within the downloading system (since that would have access to all of cylon conciousness/memories).

Good theory.

I thought it was because there were 12 member states at the time the flag was introduced?

http://europa.eu.int/abc/symbols/emblem/index_en.htm

CodeMonkey wrote:

...the 12 signs of the zodiac etc...nothing to do with christianity

We established that.